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MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501
Posted:
I am hearing that I-bonds (US bonds issued by the government) are paying 9.62% interest right now which is very good. We can invest up to $10,000 in I-bonds per year.

Should we do that?

They are backed by the full faith and integrity of the US government. We have to hold them for 1 year, which is fine. They pay out much better than the 0.01% we currently receive in interest from our accounts.

We have about $200,000 in reserve, so putting $10,000 in I-bonds would not be an issue.

Thoughts?
JustinT5 (Alabama)
Posts: 50
Posted:
interesting idea. you could save a lot more money.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Sure, your HOA can invest in I-bonds. I'm not sure of the tax implications on the interest.
SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelT21 on 05/20/2022 6:32 PM
I am hearing that I-bonds (US bonds issued by the government) are paying 9.62% interest right now which is very good. We can invest up to $10,000 in I-bonds per year.
Should we do that?
They are backed by the full faith and integrity of the US government. We have to hold them for 1 year, which is fine. They pay out much better than the 0.01% we currently receive in interest from our accounts.
We have about $200,000 in reserve, so putting $10,000 in I-bonds would not be an issue.
Thoughts?

Best wishes on this rather wishful thinking. Purchasing I-Bonds requires a Treasury Direct account. Your CIC isn't going to be obtaining a corporate Treasury Direct account anytime soon.

Regards,
Steve
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveH35 on 05/20/2022 9:04 PM
Posted By MichaelT21 on 05/20/2022 6:32 PM
I am hearing that I-bonds (US bonds issued by the government) are paying 9.62% interest right now which is very good. We can invest up to $10,000 in I-bonds per year.
Should we do that?
They are backed by the full faith and integrity of the US government. We have to hold them for 1 year, which is fine. They pay out much better than the 0.01% we currently receive in interest from our accounts.
We have about $200,000 in reserve, so putting $10,000 in I-bonds would not be an issue.
Thoughts?

Best wishes on this rather wishful thinking. Purchasing I-Bonds requires a Treasury Direct account. Your CIC isn't going to be obtaining a corporate Treasury Direct account anytime soon.

Regards,
Steve

Not exactly.

If the HOA has an EIN, then it should be able to open an entity account. There are hoops to jump through, though, such as requiring a single authorized individual to handle the account. Given how often board members can come and go, it may not be practical for HOAs to do this.

See more here: https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/TDTour/default_entity.htm

There are also some banks and brokerage firms that sell treasury securities.

Investing in bonds is a specialty in itself. Typically the higher rates require you to hold the bond for a number of years (think 30 years) in order to earn that money. And the rule of thumb is that buying bonds during periods of rising interest rates isn't smart, although this wouldn't matter if you're planning to hold the bond to maturity. If you're forced to sell it early, you may forfeit interest and/or sell it below par value (ie, for less than you paid for it).

Another rule of thumb is that chasing yields can lead to investing mistakes. Higher yield means higher risk - there is no way around this. With bonds this usually means either tying your money up for long periods of time or buying lower-quality issues (ie., junk bonds where you may not get your money back).

Unless you have someone who understands this stuff, it's best to stick to plain vanilla investing.
JustinT5 (Alabama)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Quote:

Investing in bonds is a specialty in itself. Typically the higher rates require you to hold the bond for a number of years (think 30 years) in order to earn that money. If you're forced to sell it early, you may forfeit interest and/or sell it below par value (ie, for less than you paid for it).


I bonds only require 1 year before you can with draw money, and only have 3 months lost interest penalty if withdrawn before 5 years, after 5 years no penalty. I will have my treasure look into this.

There was a website that allowed one to put in capital expenses and estimate reserves needed every year, anyone know what it is? I lost the link.
Here is an article on HOA reserve investing.

https://www.hoamanagement.com/investing-hoa-reserve-funds/

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TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Justin,

Please note that your link to the article did not work.
It appears that you failed to put the URL in the code (you used it for the text part but not the actual URL portion - do a quote on your post and you will see what I am talking about).

That said, the text to the article is correct and I went to the article itself it expresses many of the opinions that we are posting about this topic. Here is a working link for anyone interested:

Investing HOA Reserve Funds The Right Way from HOA Management

Concerning the reserves calculator - I'm not sure this is what you were looking for, but I found this on the internet:

REPLACEMENT RESERVES CALCULATOR:
https://www.eccu.org/assets/general/tools/replacement_reserves_calculator/
JustinT5 (Alabama)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 05/21/2022 6:21 AM
Justin,

Please note that your link to the article did not work.
It appears that you failed to put the URL in the code (you used it for the text part but not the actual URL portion - do a quote on your post and you will see what I am talking about).

That said, the text to the article is correct and I went to the article itself it expresses many of the opinions that we are posting about this topic. Here is a working link for anyone interested:

Investing HOA Reserve Funds The Right Way from HOA Management

Concerning the reserves calculator - I'm not sure this is what you were looking for, but I found this on the internet:

REPLACEMENT RESERVES CALCULATOR:
https://www.eccu.org/assets/general/tools/replacement_reserves_calculator/

thank you. I will check that out.
SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JustinT5 on 05/21/2022 6:39 AM
Posted By TimB4 on 05/21/2022 6:21 AM
Justin,

Please note that your link to the article did not work.
It appears that you failed to put the URL in the code (you used it for the text part but not the actual URL portion - do a quote on your post and you will see what I am talking about).

That said, the text to the article is correct and I went to the article itself it expresses many of the opinions that we are posting about this topic. Here is a working link for anyone interested:

Investing HOA Reserve Funds The Right Way from HOA Management

Concerning the reserves calculator - I'm not sure this is what you were looking for, but I found this on the internet:

REPLACEMENT RESERVES CALCULATOR:
https://www.eccu.org/assets/general/tools/replacement_reserves_calculator/


thank you. I will check that out.

Justin, I have no idea about that other calculator, but there's a reserve forumla compliant version available for free (that Max has given the thumbs up) here: https://www.(LINK-NOT-ALLOWED-PER-POSTING-RULES)/resources/reserves#h.bdahj25nm7rw. N.B. I developed that tool for free based on a model supplied by a leading national reserve study firm.

I will not that, in response to Cathy, "banks and brokerage firms" that sell Treasury securities (I established our CIC's brokerage account at Fidelity) do NOT sell I-Bonds. I-Bonds are a Treasury Direct feature only. Here's the Fidelity page for Fixed Income, Bonds and CDs: https://fixedincome.fidelity.com/ftgw/fi/FILanding?bar=p

Regards,
Steve
JustinT5 (Alabama)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveH35 on 05/21/2022 7:54 AM
Posted By JustinT5 on 05/21/2022 6:39 AM
Posted By TimB4 on 05/21/2022 6:21 AM

Concerning the reserves calculator - I'm not sure this is what you were looking for, but I found this on the internet:

REPLACEMENT RESERVES CALCULATOR:
https://www.eccu.org/assets/general/tools/replacement_reserves_calculator/


thank you. I will check that out.

Justin, I have no idea about that other calculator, but there's a reserve forumla compliant version available for free (that Max has given the thumbs up) here: https://www.(LINK-NOT-ALLOWED-PER-POSTING-RULES)/resources/reserves#h.bdahj25nm7rw. N.B. I developed that tool for free based on a model supplied by a leading national reserve study firm.

I will not that, in response to Cathy, "banks and brokerage firms" that sell Treasury securities (I established our CIC's brokerage account at Fidelity) do NOT sell I-Bonds. I-Bonds are a Treasury Direct feature only. Here's the Fidelity page for Fixed Income, Bonds and CDs: https://fixedincome.fidelity.com/ftgw/fi/FILanding?bar=p

Regards,
Steve

thanks for that link. Why can't an HOA get a corporate Treasury Direct account? We have an EIN, are registered as a non profit.
SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JustinT5 on 05/21/2022 7:59 AM
Posted By SteveH35 on 05/21/2022 7:54 AM
Posted By JustinT5 on 05/21/2022 6:39 AM
Posted By TimB4 on 05/21/2022 6:21 AM

Concerning the reserves calculator - I'm not sure this is what you were looking for, but I found this on the internet:

REPLACEMENT RESERVES CALCULATOR:
https://www.eccu.org/assets/general/tools/replacement_reserves_calculator/


thank you. I will check that out.

Justin, I have no idea about that other calculator, but there's a reserve forumla compliant version available for free (that Max has given the thumbs up) here: https://www.(LINK-NOT-ALLOWED-PER-POSTING-RULES)/resources/reserves#h.bdahj25nm7rw. N.B. I developed that tool for free based on a model supplied by a leading national reserve study firm.

I will not that, in response to Cathy, "banks and brokerage firms" that sell Treasury securities (I established our CIC's brokerage account at Fidelity) do NOT sell I-Bonds. I-Bonds are a Treasury Direct feature only. Here's the Fidelity page for Fixed Income, Bonds and CDs: https://fixedincome.fidelity.com/ftgw/fi/FILanding?bar=p

Regards,
Steve


thanks for that link. Why can't an HOA get a corporate Treasury Direct account? We have an EIN, are registered as a non profit.

You CAN setup an account ... How to set up a Corporate Entity Account in TreasuryDirect: https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/tools/establishing-a-corporate-account-2021.htm
BUT there's no way to establish a multi-user account like you would have at a bank or brokerage firm where more than one person can control things. Check out the video link above. N.B. The "Entity Account Manager" MUST:
> Be a corporate officer or designated employee
> Be authorized to act alone
> Use the EIN of the corporation

Regards,
Steve
JustinT5 (Alabama)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveH35 on 05/21/2022 8:07 AM
Posted By JustinT5 on 05/21/2022 7:59 AM
Posted By SteveH35 on 05/21/2022 7:54 AM
Posted By JustinT5 on 05/21/2022 6:39 AM
Posted By TimB4 on 05/21/2022 6:21 AM

Concerning the reserves calculator - I'm not sure this is what you were looking for, but I found this on the internet:

REPLACEMENT RESERVES CALCULATOR:
https://www.eccu.org/assets/general/tools/replacement_reserves_calculator/


thank you. I will check that out.

Justin, I have no idea about that other calculator, but there's a reserve forumla compliant version available for free (that Max has given the thumbs up) here: https://www.(LINK-NOT-ALLOWED-PER-POSTING-RULES)/resources/reserves#h.bdahj25nm7rw. N.B. I developed that tool for free based on a model supplied by a leading national reserve study firm.

I will not that, in response to Cathy, "banks and brokerage firms" that sell Treasury securities (I established our CIC's brokerage account at Fidelity) do NOT sell I-Bonds. I-Bonds are a Treasury Direct feature only. Here's the Fidelity page for Fixed Income, Bonds and CDs: https://fixedincome.fidelity.com/ftgw/fi/FILanding?bar=p

Regards,
Steve


thanks for that link. Why can't an HOA get a corporate Treasury Direct account? We have an EIN, are registered as a non profit.

You CAN setup an account ... How to set up a Corporate Entity Account in TreasuryDirect: https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/tools/establishing-a-corporate-account-2021.htm
BUT there's no way to establish a multi-user account like you would have at a bank or brokerage firm where more than one person can control things. Check out the video link above. N.B. The "Entity Account Manager" MUST:
> Be a corporate officer or designated employee
> Be authorized to act alone
> Use the EIN of the corporation

Regards,
Steve

so you are saying the authorized to act alone is the big issue? cant' we just tell our property management company to set up account. they sign all our checks and currently take care of all our banking. I dont' think they are a deisgnated employee, now that I think about it, I dont' know what they are considered, I guess a vendor. Maybe board president can set up account and then tell managment company to transfer funds. You seem to know much more about this, any advice on how it could get done?
SteveH35 (Washington)
Posts: 339
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JustinT5 on 05/21/2022 8:49 AM
Posted By SteveH35 on 05/21/2022 8:07 AM
Posted By JustinT5 on 05/21/2022 7:59 AM
Posted By SteveH35 on 05/21/2022 7:54 AM
Posted By JustinT5 on 05/21/2022 6:39 AM
Posted By TimB4 on 05/21/2022 6:21 AM

Concerning the reserves calculator - I'm not sure this is what you were looking for, but I found this on the internet:

REPLACEMENT RESERVES CALCULATOR:
https://www.eccu.org/assets/general/tools/replacement_reserves_calculator/


thank you. I will check that out.

Justin, I have no idea about that other calculator, but there's a reserve forumla compliant version available for free (that Max has given the thumbs up) here: https://www.(LINK-NOT-ALLOWED-PER-POSTING-RULES)/resources/reserves#h.bdahj25nm7rw. N.B. I developed that tool for free based on a model supplied by a leading national reserve study firm.

I will not that, in response to Cathy, "banks and brokerage firms" that sell Treasury securities (I established our CIC's brokerage account at Fidelity) do NOT sell I-Bonds. I-Bonds are a Treasury Direct feature only. Here's the Fidelity page for Fixed Income, Bonds and CDs: https://fixedincome.fidelity.com/ftgw/fi/FILanding?bar=p

Regards,
Steve


thanks for that link. Why can't an HOA get a corporate Treasury Direct account? We have an EIN, are registered as a non profit.

You CAN setup an account ... How to set up a Corporate Entity Account in TreasuryDirect: https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/tools/establishing-a-corporate-account-2021.htm
BUT there's no way to establish a multi-user account like you would have at a bank or brokerage firm where more than one person can control things. Check out the video link above. N.B. The "Entity Account Manager" MUST:
> Be a corporate officer or designated employee
> Be authorized to act alone
> Use the EIN of the corporation

Regards,
Steve


so you are saying the authorized to act alone is the big issue? cant' we just tell our property management company to set up account. they sign all our checks and currently take care of all our banking. I dont' think they are a deisgnated employee, now that I think about it, I dont' know what they are considered, I guess a vendor. Maybe board president can set up account and then tell managment company to transfer funds. You seem to know much more about this, any advice on how it could get done?

In Washington State, a management company would be unlikely to "act alone" with reserve funds in a Treasury Direct account due to our statutes. They are also NOT a "corporate officer or designated employee" of the CIC. Any type of financial account that's not a "typical" bank account that your management company regularly uses to facilitate your operating, reserve and insurance funds may be off-limits to your management company for any number of reasons.

Due to the nature of HOW an individual or corporate entity is required to invest / manage an I-Bond investment, I would be surprised to see CICs do this.

Regards,
Steve
MichaelT21 (Arkansas)
Posts: 501
Posted:
As I think about it, I think this is great idea. We can buy $10,000 a year, and keep buying $10,000 per year until we get maybe $100,000 in i-bonds. I-bonds only have to be kept a short time (1 year)*, so we really aren't taking any unreasonable risk of locking up money. I think the risk of loss of principle is equal to that of having the money in the bank, as the full faith and trust of the US government is a pretty good security.

I checked and it seems simple enough to open a TreasuryDirect account. Would take a little more work to redeem the i-bonds, but that would discourage misuse of reserve funds, and not be too bad. Only tricky thing is keeping track of the password to the Treasury Direct account, and then changing the name of the account manager as people come/go for the board.

Looking at returns, if we had bought $100,000 in i-bonds in 2011, it'd be worth $125,000 today. If we had bought $100,000 of i-bonds in 2001, it would be worth $300,000 today. Not bad overall.

I think I will propose this to the Board at the next meeting.
CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299
Posted:
https://treasurydirect.gov/forms/savpdp0039.pdf

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