Water meter and water lines

Started by KarenT • 15 replies • 2174 views

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KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250

Posted:

I need some feedback regarding this matter. Our small PUD (12 single family residences on a private road, culdesac with common area grass and swales only).

One residence at the entrance of the subdivision has the sprinkler control box and water meter for their individual residence and it also waters the common area and swales. All other residences have seperate sprinkler control boxes and water meters.

The owners of this one residence has always paid the water in lieu of dues but the membership changed that so they paid dues and the association reimburses them for excess water only. This has been acceptable to them since 2002. They have rented out their and the control of the sprinkler box has become an issue. It is located in the garage (which they have always gavin us access to turn off when it rained or have maintenance and repairs done). Now that they have renters they will not allow us access into the garage to turn off the controls, and have demanded we get a separate sprinkler control box for the common area and to separate the water lines at an expense of $4,000+. Pail soley by the association at no cost to them.

Any suggestions to resolve this matter???

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Where is the owner of the property. Since when does a tenant control the access when the owner has allowed for entry? Contact the owner. Tenant does not have the right to overstep an owner on responsibility. I know we will get replies that ask, is it in writting? Probably not but it better get done that way soon.

KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DonnaS on 07/29/2010 12:14 PM

Where is the owner of the property. Since when does a tenant control the access when the owner has allowed for entry? Contact the owner. Tenant does not have the right to overstep an owner on responsibility. I know we will get replies that ask, is it in writting? Probably not but it better get done that way soon.

It is the owner who will not let us have the access based on "landlord tenant" laws and notification of 48 hours to enter the premises. We asked them to notify the tenant(s) of this and they refuse. SIGH

KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KarenT on 07/29/2010 12:09 PM
I need some feedback regarding this matter. Our small PUD (12 single family residences on a private road, culdesac with common area grass and swales only).

One residence at the entrance of the subdivision has the sprinkler control box and water meter for their individual residence and it also waters the common area and swales. All other residences have seperate sprinkler control boxes and water meters.

The owners of this one residence has always paid the water in lieu of dues but the membership changed that so they paid dues and the association reimburses them for excess water only. This has been acceptable to them since 2002. They have rented out their and the control of the sprinkler box has become an issue. It is located in the garage (which they have always gavin us access to turn off when it rained or have maintenance and repairs done). Now that they have renters they will not allow us access into the garage to turn off the controls, and have demanded we get a separate sprinkler control box for the common area and to separate the water lines at an expense of $4,000+. Pail soley by the association at no cost to them.

Any suggestions to resolve this matter???

Boy, my mother would bean me over the head for not checking my spelling and grammar! :-}

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Karen,

I spell good just really type poorly.

KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DonnaS on 07/29/2010 12:21 PM

Karen,

I spell good just really type poorly.

Ditto! My brain just is faster than my fingers :-}

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Karen,

Frankly I think it would be a very good idea for the HOA to have their own sprinkler control box and to separate the sprinkler lines for the HOA from those for this residence -- no matter the cost. Actually, IMO, this should have been done years ago; in fact it should never have been set up this way. BTW the expense to have this done would be borne solely by the HOA; at least that's my opinion.

KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaryA1 on 07/29/2010 2:46 PM
Karen,

Frankly I think it would be a very good idea for the HOA to have their own sprinkler control box and to separate the sprinkler lines for the HOA from those for this residence -- no matter the cost. Actually, IMO, this should have been done years ago; in fact it should never have been set up this way. BTW the expense to have this done would be borne solely by the HOA; at least that's my opinion.

I agree and so does everyone else, that the builder should never have set it up this way either. But it is what it is and was never been an issue until the owners decided to move and rent out their house because they could not sell it.

The HOA does not have the money in our reserves for this kind of expense since we just had to replace a section of our perimeter fence for $8,000 and we still have another section to replace before it falls down too.

We also have a private road that needs resurfacing. We have 2 homeowners who don't pay their dues - (one deceased and in foreclosure) the other just refuses to pay because she doesn't think she is obligated to (yes we have turned it over to our attorney (which is another expense). The rest of the homeowners are all single women (single income) with the exception of one single man. So our funds are limited to say the least.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Karen,

Then you're going to be at the mercy of this homeowner. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Quote:

The owners of this one residence has always paid the water in lieu of dues but the membership changed that so they paid dues and the association reimburses them for excess water only.

This type of system was setup for failure. It may have worked when they did it, but property changes hands, people are different, etc. It was never going to work long term, and now you see the results. Paying only for excess? With no meter? LOL.

See if you can talk the homeowner into allowing you to install a second water meter and a shut off valve accessible by the outside. 10 years from now, you may have to relocate the whole system if another homeowner objects. Good luck.

KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SteveM9 on 07/30/2010 1:40 PM

The owners of this one residence has always paid the water in lieu of dues but the membership changed that so they paid dues and the association reimburses them for excess water only.

Steve,

We have been discussing installing a second control box but they insist the HOA and pay for a separate water line period. It is our opinion they are being unreasonable. The first several years they paid absolutely no dues in lieu of paying for the water and now they pay dues and the HOA reimburses them approx. $100-$250 a year for excess water. The water company only charges $13.90 for basic water per month. I cannot see why this has to be so complicated and expensive!

BonnieE (Illinois)
Posts: 338

Posted:

Karen,
Is there a written agreement between the HOA and either the homeowner or renter that the HOA would reimburse for water usage? I’m guessing there isn’t.

Regardless, quit watering the common areas; inform the homeowner/renter of this and that the HOA will no longer pay for any portion of their water bill; and, if need be, disconnect the water line to the common area.

Bonnie

P.S. The Board could offer to pay for the common area water line disconnect. Putting in a new meter, etc. can wait until the HOA has the funds.

We had a similar situation about 13 years ago with each of our buildings having one exterior water hookup (each townhome in each building has a water hookup inside of their garage). Due to complaints from the HOs with the extra outdoor water hookup that others (usually the landscapers or other contractors) were occasionally using these hookups, the HOA initially paid for the excess water usage. Then the Board made a one-time offer to those HOs that they would disconnect the outdoor water hookup at no charge, and, would no longer pay for any water bills should they choose to keep their outdoor hookup. Some HOs chose to have the disconnect, others did not.

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

So the HOA changed the rules of the game in 2002 and that was ok but now the HO wants to change the rules and that is not ok. Seems like you have a double standard. Maybe you folks 'thought' the 2002 rule change was acceptable to the HO but in reality it might not have been and they just grumbled to themselves since 2002?

How about offering to reinstate the original setup, waiving their dues to motivate them.

KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieE on 08/02/2010 10:01 AM
Karen,
Is there a written agreement between the HOA and either the homeowner or renter that the HOA would reimburse for water usage? I’m guessing there isn’t.

Regardless, quit watering the common areas; inform the homeowner/renter of this and that the HOA will no longer pay for any portion of their water bill; and, if need be, disconnect the water line to the common area.

Bonnie

P.S. The Board could offer to pay for the common area water line disconnect. Putting in a new meter, etc. can wait until the HOA has the funds.

We had a similar situation about 13 years ago with each of our buildings having one exterior water hookup (each townhome in each building has a water hookup inside of their garage). Due to complaints from the HOs with the extra outdoor water hookup that others (usually the landscapers or other contractors) were occasionally using these hookups, the HOA initially paid for the excess water usage. Then the Board made a one-time offer to those HOs that they would disconnect the outdoor water hookup at no charge, and, would no longer pay for any water bills should they choose to keep their outdoor hookup. Some HOs chose to have the disconnect, others did not.

No written agreement - just the minutes of all our meetings that this was the agreement. The cost to pay for the common area disconnect is $4000 to $6500 which is an expense we are trying to avoid. The meter is reasonable $250-$350. Our common area is approximately a 8,500 sq. ft. area in the middle of the subdivision culdesac and the swales which front the street into the subdivision. If we quit watering it would diminish the entire look of the subdivision.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

Can you pay what you think you owe in advance to the water dept? You have enough history to make an estimate.

I have a feeling if the municipal water dept. gets involved, they WILL insist on access to the meter.

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

Susan, there are external readers for many water meters so access to the meter, or not, (for reading purposes) still wouldn't resolve what portion is the HO's and what portion is the HOA's. Nor would an estimate based on past history.

I doubt a water utility is going to get involved just because the HOA can't shut off the water for maintenance or for when it rains..so long as the HO can shut the HO's water off.

It sounds like a stupid setup but just because the HOA doesn't want to incur the alternative doesn't mean they have any right to the home, especially since they changed the original terms.

I think the HOA is missing the point that it isn't just about paying for their share of the water, there is still the inconvenience/liability of the HO having to allow access to THEIR home. If the HOA compensates them for that aspect maybe the HO might see some benefit to themselves.

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