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HOA Forcing Us To Repaint

Started by MarcR • 18 replies • 1767 views

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MarcR (Georgia)
Posts: 1
Posted:
Our HOA is required us to repaint our townhouse after painting it only four years ago. It is an approved color and there are no cracks, discolorations, or anything that would signal that a repaint is necessary. We have shown them proof of the townhouse being painted 4 years ago and have shrugged it off saying that it is time to repaint. We want a second opinion. How do we go about it, i.e. arbitration, court, lawyer. Has anyone else had this situation?

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
if you know you are in the right and talking has not swayed your BOD then your only recourse would be an attorney

?? how much to repaint ??
?? how much for attorney ??

sometimes one wins by capitulation
BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posted:
Do your docs state you must repaint every 4 years?

Barbara
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Marc,

Do you have some architectural guidelines that require a repaint every 4 years? How about in the protective covenants? Ask to see in writting where this is coming from.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Marc,

Unless it's stated in the A/C guidelines that you are required to re-paint you home every 4 years, you have no recourse but to fight this in a court of law. By the time your case would be settled it would most likely be time to repaint again! No matter the quality of the paint, most don't last longer than 5 years, but it really depends upon your climate.

BTW, one way to check if it's time to repaint is if there is evidence of chalking. When you wipe your hand across the surface is there a white chalky coating on your hand? If so, then it's time to repaint. Perhaps the board may listen to the opinion of a painting contractor.
RickW (Illinois)
Posts: 169
Posted:
Marc,

How does the appearance of your townhome compare to the others in the complex? Has the association required that others paint as well? In my complex the association handles the painting of the exterior which works well. We split the work over two summers, but it help to make a consistent well maintained complex. By the way, we typically repaint every four years.

Your board should be able to provide the reasoning for their request.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 07/03/2010 4:48 PM
Marc,

Unless it's stated in the A/C guidelines that you are required to re-paint you home every 4 years, you have no recourse but to fight this in a court of law. By the time your case would be settled it would most likely be time to repaint again! No matter the quality of the paint, most don't last longer than 5 years, but it really depends upon your climate.

BTW, one way to check if it's time to repaint is if there is evidence of chalking. When you wipe your hand across the surface is there a white chalky coating on your hand? If so, then it's time to repaint. Perhaps the board may listen to the opinion of a painting contractor.

This is probably what we have come to expect, but, PAINTING USED TO BE A SKILLED TRADE and exterior work, if done properly, should last 12-20 years DEPENDING UPON CLIMATE AND MAINTENAINANCE.

'Chalking' is a sign of a less than proper top coating of the primer ... in theory a proper painting will not chalk. It will merely fade / erode away over time.

Two proper paintings over a 30 year period will cost about the same as 5 shoddy ones, but will entail much less aggravation.

Why is there never time & money to do it right, but ALWAYS time and money to do it again?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 07/04/2010 5:55 AM
Posted By MaryA1 on 07/03/2010 4:48 PM
Marc,

Unless it's stated in the A/C guidelines that you are required to re-paint you home every 4 years, you have no recourse but to fight this in a court of law. By the time your case would be settled it would most likely be time to repaint again! No matter the quality of the paint, most don't last longer than 5 years, but it really depends upon your climate.

BTW, one way to check if it's time to repaint is if there is evidence of chalking. When you wipe your hand across the surface is there a white chalky coating on your hand? If so, then it's time to repaint. Perhaps the board may listen to the opinion of a painting contractor.


This is probably what we have come to expect, but, PAINTING USED TO BE A SKILLED TRADE and exterior work, if done properly, should last 12-20 years DEPENDING UPON CLIMATE AND MAINTENAINANCE.

'Chalking' is a sign of a less than proper top coating of the primer ... in theory a proper painting will not chalk. It will merely fade / erode away over time.

Two proper paintings over a 30 year period will cost about the same as 5 shoddy ones, but will entail much less aggravation.

Why is there never time & money to do it right, but ALWAYS time and money to do it again?

John,

FYI. . .

Chalking

Š Home-Cost.com 2006

Symptoms: Chalking
Chalking is identifiable as a fine chalky powder that forms on the surface of a paint film. Although some chalking is a normal way paints self clean when exposed to the sun and rain, excessive chalking can be a paint failure. In dry arid climates where there is little rain, chalking can become excessive. Chalking is actually the paint pigment released by the paint binders which have been broken down by exposure to the weather. Chalking is especially typical of very light colored flat paints, especially lesser quality oil based paints containing high levels of pigment extenders. When chalking gets severe it may run off onto and stain surrounding construction.
Potential Causes:

•Use of cheaper quality exterior paint containing high levels of pigment extenders.
•Improper paint was used in an exterior application (such as an interior paint).
•Lower quality factory finished aluminum siding.
•Over-thinning paint.
•Not properly sealing a porous surface before painting.
Possible Repairs:
•Chalking is considered dirt and must be removed before repainting.
•Remove chalking by power washing or scrubbing with a trisodium phosphate cleaning solution and rinse with clean water.
•Let dry and paint with a high quality latex house paint.
•To clean brick areas stained by chalking runoff the masonry should be scrubbed with a specialized masonry cleaning solution. If staining persists, a professional cleaning contractor may be required to clean the brick.
BonnieE (Illinois)
Posts: 338
Posted:
As others have stated, it depends on how your governing docs are worded. Are other HOs also required to paint?

In my situation, our Board has the authority to require repairs/maintenance be performed by the HO, or the Board may enter into a contract for work to be done and a charge back to the HO.
We are condos that look like townhomes. This authority is in our gov docs – we have rules/regs addressing maintenance/repair. Is there something similar in your gov docs?

We require regular maintenance of the limited, exclusive use common elements, by the HOs. For example, our BOD just informed the HOs that their wood balconies (these are limited exclusive use common elements) would be cleaned and painted this summer via a HOA contractor, with a charge back to the HOs.

Other examples: we have informed/required individual HOs to make repairs to limited exclusive use common elements on an as needed basis – such as window repairs/replacement, patio door replacement, clean oil stains (spills) on driveways, garage door repairs.

And, John – I agree! I researched into the warranties of some paint manufacturers. While there is paint with a 20 year warranty – when you read the warranty it is limited to a single family home with the same HO, and requires proper preparation of the wood. I have talked with several paint manufacturer reps and was told that condo/townhomes are excluded from the 20 year warranty.

Also the painting contractors we have looked at will only warranty for up to 3 years. Until our latest contractor (the one who will do the balconies, and will also do the wood exterior painting over 2010-11). They and the paint manufacturer will warranty 7 years. As part of this, once the job is completed the painting manufacturer will inspect the work.

Rick – since you are also in IL – have you found any paint manufacturers and paint contractors who will give a longer warranty (we are N. IL, Fox River area)?

Bonnie

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
While there is paint with a 20 year warranty – when you read the warranty it is limited


Paint warranties are practically worthless. If you look into the fine print, you will see they only cover the cost of the paint, not the labor. A bucket of paint is only $17. The labor is what's expensive.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 07/04/2010 7:39 AM
While there is paint with a 20 year warranty – when you read the warranty it is limited


Paint warranties are practically worthless. If you look into the fine print, you will see they only cover the cost of the paint, not the labor. A bucket of paint is only $17. The labor is what's expensive.

IMO: should read "A bucket of CHEAP paint is only $17.00"

Benjamin Moore = $35+/gal
Sherwin Williams = $28+/gal
Pittsburgh = $30+/gal

TOP OF THE LINE DURON Exterior 100% Acrylic Satin = $47.50/gal

most of these paints will actually last 10-15 years if properly applied over (this is the hard part) a properly prepped/primed base surface
BonnieE (Illinois)
Posts: 338
Posted:
It is Sherwin Williams who is giving us the 7 year warranty. It will be interesting to see how this works for the wood balconies as to their prep work (16 year old decks are currently covered with opaque non penetrating sealer which went over previously appplied penetrating semi transparent sealers) - and howlong it does last.

I've requested a copy of their warranty and am interested in the exceptions.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BonnieE on 07/05/2010 8:54 AM
It is Sherwin Williams who is giving us the 7 year warranty. It will be interesting to see how this works for the wood balconies as to their prep work (16 year old decks are currently covered with opaque non penetrating sealer which went over previously appplied penetrating semi transparent sealers) - and howlong it does last.

I've requested a copy of their warranty and am interested in the exceptions.

The wood needs to be 'stripped' .. a coat of aggressive oil based primer applied .. followed by TWO coats of finish .. as per the fine print in the warranty.

Read it and weep
BonnieE (Illinois)
Posts: 338
Posted:
Hi John – No need for me to “read it and weep”. I already know that the wood would need more prep than what the contractor will be doing. I was told by a contractor rep who was out here looking over the balconies that they will be power washed, any loose paint scraped, and then repainted with an opaque non penetrating sealant “paint” of the same color.

I have read enough of these contracts and warranties to not set my expectations high. I do not expect the paint will last 7 years and I do not expect that the 7 year warranty will apply as it likely contains language in it stating that it is only good if certain conditions are met. I expect we will get about 3, perhaps 4, years before the paint again begins to peel from the top surfaces.

The Board has already entered into this contract (the HOs were informed after the fact) and I do not believe they (BOD) read the details of the warranty, nor the contract (this based on discussions and written responses).

Meanwhile, I will be prepared for the next time my balcony needs to be done.

Bonnie
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
I repeat:

Why is there never time & money to do it right, but ALWAYS time and money to do it again?

If done properly at 2X the cost one will get 4X the service life.
BonnieE (Illinois)
Posts: 338
Posted:
John – I totally agree with you!

When these wood balconies were last powerwashed/painted, they were also restored (summer of 2007, when they were ~13 yrs. old) to make needed repairs and ensure structural integrity (we had balconies that were unsafe and were not up to code).

I was on the BOD at that time and when we received estimates for the balcony restoration project, given my concerns for the cost, I looked into/obtained estimates for replacement of the balconies using the composite “woods” which would eliminate much of the future maintenance.

The BOD members voted against the replacement (higher cost, but we could afford it – and would pay for itself based on projected savings from cost of regular maintenance and remaining life of balconies) and went with the restoration project. As the project got underway, we had continual additional costs because more of the wood needed to be replaced than in the original estimate, among other things. Without pulling out the old figures, it turned out that if we had replaced the balconies, we would have saved $$ compared to the final cost the restoration project came in at.

Our current BOD still has 3 of those members from when I was on the BOD.

Bonnie

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
They need to be infoemed re: FIDUCIARY DUTY

Having been so informed they would open themselves to liability which the D&O insurance would NOT cover if they proceeded in an unreasonable manner w/o thourough investigation of the long term (coporate) costs involved with second rate work at "lower" cost.

GOOD LUCK
BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posted:
Marc,

We are waiting for you to reply with what your documents state.

Barbara
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
"Although some chalking is a normal way paints self clean when exposed to the sun and rain, excessive chalking can be a paint failure.

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