BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posts: 347
Posted:
Our docs talk about association responsibility but never mentions whose responsibility it is for cleaning the buildings, where do we find this out?
Barbara
Barbara
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association responsibility
Started by BarbaraD6 • 17 replies • 1944 views
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GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Barbara, I'm assuming you are talking condos. If it's the Association's responsibility to repair (maintain) an area, it's the Association's responsibility to clean it. Generally speaking the answer may not be in one specific place but spread throughout the CC&R's.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posts: 347
Posted:
Glen,
We are townhomes.
Barbara
We are townhomes.
Barbara
BonnieE (Illinois)
Posts: 338
Posts: 338
Posted:
Hi Barbara,
Could you please clarify - cleaning what parts or areas of the townhomes? Could you identify the common areas of the townhomes?
Thanks, Bonne
Could you please clarify - cleaning what parts or areas of the townhomes? Could you identify the common areas of the townhomes?
Thanks, Bonne
BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posts: 347
Posted:
Bonnie,
The outside walls of the buildings. They are dirty and need to be washed. In the past the association washed them, made owners clean them, and now I am on the board.
Association shall perform or cause to be performed the following:
- maintenance of lawns( all lawns are common property)
-painting of all exterior painted portions of any dwelling
- repair and/or replacement of roofs
- maintenance,repair and replace foundation and structure of the dwelling on lot
- termite treatment
repair, replace garage door and exterior door hardware
The association shall not be responsible for any caulking of the exterior portions of any windows or dorrs, nor for any maintenance or repairs to any glass surfaces, any screening, anything contained within any dwelling, garage, or courtyard, any driveway serving a unit.
All other portions of the lots shall be the responsibility of the owner, including, maintenance, repair and replacement as necessary, of all pipes, lines,wires, conduits,ac equipment or other equipment which serve only the lot...
Barbara
The outside walls of the buildings. They are dirty and need to be washed. In the past the association washed them, made owners clean them, and now I am on the board.
Association shall perform or cause to be performed the following:
- maintenance of lawns( all lawns are common property)
-painting of all exterior painted portions of any dwelling
- repair and/or replacement of roofs
- maintenance,repair and replace foundation and structure of the dwelling on lot
- termite treatment
repair, replace garage door and exterior door hardware
The association shall not be responsible for any caulking of the exterior portions of any windows or dorrs, nor for any maintenance or repairs to any glass surfaces, any screening, anything contained within any dwelling, garage, or courtyard, any driveway serving a unit.
All other portions of the lots shall be the responsibility of the owner, including, maintenance, repair and replacement as necessary, of all pipes, lines,wires, conduits,ac equipment or other equipment which serve only the lot...
Barbara
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
From what you posted I would say it's the Associations responsibility to clean them.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
I would agree with Glen.
BonnieE (Illinois)
Posts: 338
Posts: 338
Posted:
I agree with the above, too, as it sounds like the exterior walls are a common element.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
For Barbara: What does this mean to you? Copied from your post.
The association shall not be responsible for any caulking of the exterior portions of any windows or dorrs, nor for any maintenance or repairs to any glass surfaces, any screening, anything contained within any dwelling, garage, or courtyard, any driveway serving a unit.
All other portions of the lots shall be the responsibility of the owner, including, maintenance, repair and replacement as necessary, of all pipes, lines,wires, conduits,ac equipment or other equipment which serve only the lot...
I read this to say the associations is not going to be responsible for the items listed in the first paragraph. Then in the second it says all other portions of the lots shall be the responsibility of the owner. In other words nothing is the responsibility of the association.
It clearly states that the owners are responsible for all other portions of the lot, including maintenance. (very vague intent, and speaking of intent, the intent has to be determined from the original documents unless lawful changes have been recorded.
I suspect you are going to run into trouble until this kind of stuff is clarified. Best way to do this, I think, is to copy the relevant items from another association that has clearer documents. IMHO
The association shall not be responsible for any caulking of the exterior portions of any windows or dorrs, nor for any maintenance or repairs to any glass surfaces, any screening, anything contained within any dwelling, garage, or courtyard, any driveway serving a unit.
All other portions of the lots shall be the responsibility of the owner, including, maintenance, repair and replacement as necessary, of all pipes, lines,wires, conduits,ac equipment or other equipment which serve only the lot...
I read this to say the associations is not going to be responsible for the items listed in the first paragraph. Then in the second it says all other portions of the lots shall be the responsibility of the owner. In other words nothing is the responsibility of the association.
It clearly states that the owners are responsible for all other portions of the lot, including maintenance. (very vague intent, and speaking of intent, the intent has to be determined from the original documents unless lawful changes have been recorded.
I suspect you are going to run into trouble until this kind of stuff is clarified. Best way to do this, I think, is to copy the relevant items from another association that has clearer documents. IMHO
BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posts: 347
Posted:
Robert,
We have had several management companies and boards each with a different opinion. I thank you for your advice.
Barbara
We have had several management companies and boards each with a different opinion. I thank you for your advice.
Barbara
BonnieE (Illinois)
Posts: 338
Posts: 338
Posted:
Our gov docs state basically the same thing re HO responsibility. Based on the language Barbara provided re HO responsibility, I made an assumption (in error?) that the common elements are the HOA responsibility as the language she provided is specific to how I understand limited or exclusive use common elements (at least, as done here in IL).
Barbara - do your gov docs define common elements? limited common elements? exclusive common elements?
Barbara - do your gov docs define common elements? limited common elements? exclusive common elements?
BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posts: 347
Posted:
Bonnie,
Here's what I found.
Common maintenance areas shall include, but are not limited to (a)the common area, including landscaping, structures, and other improvements, as well as private streets, and sidewalks; (b)landscaping within public rights-of-way within or abutting the community; (c) such portions of lots as are specifically identified as the Association's responsivility under Section 5.1 ir any Supplemental Declaration;.. (e) all ponds, streams, ditches, culverts, and/or wetlands located within the community which serve as part of the Surface water and Storm management system...
Limited Common Areas- .... Limited common areas may include entry features, recreational facilities, landscaped medians and cul-de-sacs, private roads,lakes and other portions of the common areas primarily serving a limited area...
Barbara
Here's what I found.
Common maintenance areas shall include, but are not limited to (a)the common area, including landscaping, structures, and other improvements, as well as private streets, and sidewalks; (b)landscaping within public rights-of-way within or abutting the community; (c) such portions of lots as are specifically identified as the Association's responsivility under Section 5.1 ir any Supplemental Declaration;.. (e) all ponds, streams, ditches, culverts, and/or wetlands located within the community which serve as part of the Surface water and Storm management system...
Limited Common Areas- .... Limited common areas may include entry features, recreational facilities, landscaped medians and cul-de-sacs, private roads,lakes and other portions of the common areas primarily serving a limited area...
Barbara
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Barbara,
Maybe this should be looked upon as "use of the property" (limited) and "ownership of the property".................."Common and Limited."
Also in the last para the old bugaboo appears in first sentence. "Limited common areas MAY include". This makes it extremely difficult to assign "limited common property" if a question arises.
Just an observation.
Maybe this should be looked upon as "use of the property" (limited) and "ownership of the property".................."Common and Limited."
Also in the last para the old bugaboo appears in first sentence. "Limited common areas MAY include". This makes it extremely difficult to assign "limited common property" if a question arises.
Just an observation.
BonnieE (Illinois)
Posts: 338
Posts: 338
Posted:
FYI...we have the word "may" with regard to limited/exclusive use common elements. We (HOA Board) developed a responsibility chart listing all of the "elements", indicating who has responsibility and from which doc this is based (included references to our gov docs and IL Condo Act). Our attorney developed the first draft and identified those "elements" which could go either way for the Board to decide on. For ex., decks and patios are an exclusive use limited common element. Previously the HOA paid for maintenance & repairs on decks & patios. The Board decided this would be the HO rsponsibility. The attorney reviewed the final version to ensure it met our gov docs and laws.
The responsibility chart really helped/helps clarify the grey areas.
Perhaps a responsibility chart would help in your situation for those grey areas, Barbara.
-Bonnie
The responsibility chart really helped/helps clarify the grey areas.
Perhaps a responsibility chart would help in your situation for those grey areas, Barbara.
-Bonnie
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Bonnie, This is an excellent suggestion.
I think I have said this before about your association but to repeat you appear to have a good grasp on the situations and seem proactive......a good thing.
It is just too bad you could not send your documents for Barbara to copy, but as you know there a few that apply to more than one association exactly. Maybe some of what you have would serve as a template.
I think I have said this before about your association but to repeat you appear to have a good grasp on the situations and seem proactive......a good thing.
It is just too bad you could not send your documents for Barbara to copy, but as you know there a few that apply to more than one association exactly. Maybe some of what you have would serve as a template.
BonnieE (Illinois)
Posts: 338
Posts: 338
Posted:
Hi Robert – thank you – do not know if is my HOA or not, though. My Board has its shares of pluses and minuses (I’ve written about a few…..remember the oak tree on the common elements that I own?). We do have the usual problems re lack of interest, volunteers, etc. - haven’t had an election since 2007, underfunded reserves – but the Board keeps on going even without the elections, does a good job of keeping things in good shape, and, the responsibility chart has proven to be very useful.
I recall someone else talked about a responsibility chart a while back – perhaps someone has an electronic copy to share? Mine is paper only. Maybe I can create the basic format. Barbara’s Board would need to fill it in – or better yet, have their attorney draft one the way we did.
Bonnie
I recall someone else talked about a responsibility chart a while back – perhaps someone has an electronic copy to share? Mine is paper only. Maybe I can create the basic format. Barbara’s Board would need to fill it in – or better yet, have their attorney draft one the way we did.
Bonnie
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarbaraD6 on 06/17/2010 10:37 AM
The outside walls of the buildings. They are dirty and need to be washed. In the past the association washed them, made owners clean them, and now I am on the board.
The outside walls of the buildings. They are dirty and need to be washed. In the past the association washed them, made owners clean them, and now I am on the board.
Barbara if something were to happen to the outside walls and they needed to be replaced; would it be the Association's responsibility or the homeowner's? That is the one IMO who would be responsible to clean them.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
BarbaraD6 (Florida)
Posts: 347
Posts: 347
Posted:
Glen and Bonnie,
Thank you for your great advice.
We think this is the answer "maintenance,repair, and replacement of the foundation and STRUCTURE of the dwelling on the lot and ...... serving more than one lot; provided however , said costs shall only be paid for by the Owners in that particular building being repaired as a Benefited Assessment"
The association cleans them and then charges it back to the owner.
Glen I'm waiting to hear back from you on my other thread.
Barbara
Thank you for your great advice.
We think this is the answer "maintenance,repair, and replacement of the foundation and STRUCTURE of the dwelling on the lot and ...... serving more than one lot; provided however , said costs shall only be paid for by the Owners in that particular building being repaired as a Benefited Assessment"
The association cleans them and then charges it back to the owner.
Glen I'm waiting to hear back from you on my other thread.
Barbara
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