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CathyM5 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
We have a large homeowner association in Florida that has a Board of Directors (BOD) and many committees made up of volunteers. Two of the newer directors have become completely out of control and have been systematically attacking each committee (including each others). Their goal is to disband all committees and only have a BOD. Many of our volunteers are quitting because of these directors. Since the beginning of this year they started with our (Community Relations Committee) newsletter and even though our governing documents state that the newsletter is not a board document they tried to take it over and turn it into a publication of just board news. This failed miserably for them (however we lost 2 long time writers) so they moved onto another committee to start trouble. That committee was the election committee, from there it was deed restrictions from there the modification committee and now they are back again to our Community Relations Committee. Our committee is also in charge of our web site and our forum. You have to be registered in order to use the forum, it is for residents seeking help or information from each other, just generalized things with several different topics to choose from. It came to the attention of our webmaster that one of these directors has been on the forum, stating that she is a BOD and a Chairman of her committee and answering questions from this point of view. Our committee had a discussion on this and we felt that this is for residents to talk AS residents and not for a BOD to act as an individual and post their comments. We sent a motion to the BOD for them to adopt our position that the BOD of directors are not to speak as BOD's but as residents. If someone living in our community has an issue it should be brought to a meeting and not posted in the form. Also, the BOD comments are to be recognized as a group and not as an individual opinion. The board accepted our motion (not them though) and it was voted on that the forum is not a place for Directors to be communicating with residents. Now, they are stating that we are not allowing them to exercise their 1st Amendment Rights. I have been researching all over for information on this subject and really can't seem to find anything which supports the way that the majority feels. I would also like to point out that they keep running to our lawyer and even when the lawyer sends a written answer to us they then want clarification of the written statements. Because of much of the nonsense and turmoil they have been subjecting us to we did have a BOD meeting at the lawyers office in March. There were approximately 25 residents in attendance, and when they stated to the attorney "what do we do when we can't get our committee to agree with us and the board will not agree with us either", he told them to resign.

Last year our entire legal fees were somewhere in the $30K bracket and this year we have already surpassed this. A recall would be a massive undertaking, we have over 8,000 property owners and would need 800 signatures. A massive undertaking for a small group of people.

So, does anyone have any information on BOD's posting on forums?
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
You already established the rules for your (PRIVATE!!) forum.

The BOD has already accepted those rules.

At the risk of getting too technical and using complicated legal terms, the complainers trying to use 1st Amendment justification to post whatever they want are full of cow pookey.

Your organization is a private corporation.

Your website is owned and run by private individuals (not the government or any government in any way, shape or form).

Therefore, you get to say who can and can't post, what they can and can't talk about, and you can delete or censor any comments that don't conform to your website forums rules.

It doesn't matter WHO they are, HOA board members or your grandmother.

They can scream "1st Amendment Citizens Arrest" till the cows come home, it doesn't apply to online forums.

By the way, it's a shame the directors are acting this way. Even more of a shame that people are walking away from committees because of them.

I wish there were some way you could convince your committee members to stick it out. People that toxic will eventually be voted away.

PS: most HOAs would kill (figuratively) for the type of resident volunteer participation your committees are getting! You must be doing something right somewhere!

PSPS: you may have to instruct your attorneys to only field requests from designated liaisons and NOT include those two directors on that list.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
You should also host the forum in another country who doesn't have to follow USA laws. Russia, Romania, India, China, etc.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 06/16/2010 1:34 PM
You should also host the forum in another country who doesn't have to follow USA laws. Russia, Romania, India, China, etc.

PUH-leeze. **insert eyeroll smilie here**

What U. S. law is the forum violating by putting restrictions on who can post or what they can and can't say?

I will give you a hint: None.

This forum has rules, too.

Just like your HOA or your local zoning board.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
PUH-leeze. **insert eyeroll smilie here**


The problem is what the users might post. Problems such as slander, libel, defamation, etc. Spammers might post illegal items as well.

If its in another country its much safer from the US Court system, lawyers, etc.
CathyM5 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thanks everyone for your input. I can't find anything on the internet about "their" freedom of speech being infringed upon. They just will not be happy until the contaminate every committee and there are no volunteers left. Approximately 150 at the Volunteer Dinner in February and I think about a dozen have left since March. We lost 2 on our committee alone.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CathyM5 on 06/17/2010 2:29 PM
Thanks everyone for your input. I can't find anything on the internet about "their" freedom of speech being infringed upon. They just will not be happy until the contaminate every committee and there are no volunteers left. Approximately 150 at the Volunteer Dinner in February and I think about a dozen have left since March. We lost 2 on our committee alone.

You cannot find anything because their claim is bogus. I'm serious about this. The first amendment does NOT apply in this case. In fact, there are much fewer situations where the first amendment applies than most people realize.

They have NO first amendment rights in an online forum.

In fact, as Steve mentioned regarding issues like libel or defamation, anyone posting such and claiming first amendment protection to cover their butts has found themselves in deep doo-doo.

One HOA resident in Colorado found out for herself that online forum speech is not protected when she was found liable for libel and defamation and had to pay upwards of $40,000 for the lesson.

You can make (pretty much) whatever rules you want for your forum (as long as you don't libel or defame anyone) and if someone wants to post there they have to follow them.

IN fact, Cathy, you can make a rule on your online forum that every single poster has to end his or her posts with the sentence "CathyM is the goddess of the Universe" and if they don't, you can ban them.

Tell people to stop letting these bullies "win."

Keep your forum -- enforce your rules (if the board members can't play nice and post the way your have established posters must post, then restrict their posting privileges) -- and let them know you will stay put.
CathyM5 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thanks Michael, we believe they want to voice their opinions as members of the board to "impress" those that don't attend any meetings or care to get involved. By a matter of just seeing their names on the forum and their "informational" posts their names become something that people will recognize. That's #1. #2 is the fact that individual board of directors are not allowed to talk to the press or anyone else on their individual beliefs with the consent of the entire board. If they are posting as an individual we felt that the rule for them for the forum should be the same as the newspaper.

They just give women a bad name with their stupidity, I was at a BOD meeting today with about 25 people in attendance and there were more people shaking their heads in disbelief over the stupidity of comments they were making. I wish they videotaped these meetings as it is really something from a fiction novel.

We have told the President of the Board over and over again that he needs to get a set of balls (pardon my language) and for some reason he just doesn't. His term is up in December and he is not running again as well as one other member. I believe that one of the nuts will end up being the President as she will get two of her cronies to run to fill the two positions.

I feel like moving, it really makes you sick that you care about your community and get involved and you have to see all of this going on.

LOL: CathyM is the goddess of the Universe"
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Cathy I know it's easy to get overwhelmed but with a large HOA and a vast pool of volunteers it should be easy to find people to run, instead of just ceding the election to the twits. If you do then you deserve what you get. Since Florida HOA's can't ban recordings, get someone to sit in the audience and tape the pairs idiotic comments. That is what YouTube was made for, to make people look like the idiots they sometimes are.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
CathyM5 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Many of the people who attend the meetings don't want to run because of them our newsletter which goes out in July the front page article is seeking board members, hopefully we will have people step forward to run. Our minutes use to be tape recorded but for some reason that was stopped and only notes are taken....and they are taken by one of them. The group fought over the minutes from March up until this last week because of the way she wrote them, saying that she and the other one were abused. Those 2 were the only members that remember the meeting in that way. I will probably invest in a tape recorder myself and start bringing it. Thanks.

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