💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
Our present board is proposing an amendment to our Rules regarding Privileges and I find the wording somewhat disturbing. My platform to run for the board is based on using terminology that the ordinary person can clearly understand from reading it the first time ,not shaking your head and asking WHAT? I am needing some of the great people who have this same good sense in this forum to help me understand this new proposed amendment.

Rule 5.Privileges of Membership
5.1 Only Owners are members of the Club("Members").
Membership includes the right to vote at meetings of Members;the use of the Property,and its amenities;service on the Board of Directors and Committees of the Club;participation in Board and Committee meetings,and the right to authorize the admission of,or to admit,non-members to the Property (known as "Gate Clearance").

5.2 Adult family members may enjoy the above privileges except voting at meetings of Members.
THIS WHAT THEY WANT TO INSERT - ALL IN CAPS=
FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS RULE A FAMILY MEMBER MEANS- A SPOUSE,THE CHILDREN,GRANDCHILDREN,BROTHERS,SISTERS,PARENTS AND GRANDPARENTS OF EACH OF THEIR SPOUSES.Now I will continue with what is the rest of the present rule.Minor members of the family of a Member(defined as those under the age of 18 )may use the Property,and its amenities,but must have written permission for the unsupervised use of the swimming pool,tennis courts,lodge,exercise room,trap and skeet range,and use on the roads of golf carts.A Minor of a members family may not grant gate clearance.

Now if i am reading this correctly and trying real hard to understand the insertion of the new wording of a family member are they saying that now all my KIN FOLK are really members by virtue of blood line alone?I always thought this rule was intended to mean by adult family member my immediate family like my 22 year old son who still lives at home...My mother brother sister and all those other folks are GUESTS when they visit here.NOT MEMBERS......So now my brother can grant gate clearance and run for a seat on the board ? am I seeing something that isn't there ???? Thanks for help and support... Future board Member ?????? Linda C

JamesC (Maryland)
Posts: 282
Posted:
Linda:

Maybe it's only me who doesn't understand, but I'm trying to figure out if you are discussing board membership in an HOA or membership into some private club or something.
What state are you located in? Can you clarify what type of organization are you discussing?
Sorry for my stupidy.

Jim
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
Jim- We are located in the Great State of Florida ...and yes we are a legitimate legal HOA governed by the Laws of the State of Florida and our By Laws and recorded Declaration of Restrictions....It's they who insert the "fancy" wording about Members ,probably because we are a hunting and recreational facility......Hope this helps as you try and Help me understand what's happening here.thanks for your time with this post Linda C
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Linda, I think you understand very well. The wording is faulty and when it conflicts with your Declaration it does not apply. Why don't you rewrite it for them? I think their purpose is to allow kinfolks to use the amenities of the club and to have those under 18 have certain restrictions for the sake of safety.
DonN (Michigan)
Posts: 357
Posted:
LindaC3

It appears that your Club has gone overboard with rules. The rights and obligations of owners/members are defined in the CC&Rs — no more and no less. There might be an exception if the CC&Rs provide the authority to the Club to further define and extend the privileges of members.

The CC&Rs should define family privileges as related to the owner/member. If the CC&Rs don't include all the kinfolk, then the privileges don't apply to kinfolk.

It may be well to review all the rules to ensure they are all founded in the CC&Rs.

LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
Good Day All- I am in total agreeance with you that the Present Board has gone overboard with our rules.That alone is helping to solidify my intention to run for a seat,however much of a lone wolfette I may be,so be it....Apathy among Members is very high here..Seems they feel the duty of running the place and making rule should be left up to the board,but the REAL problem as I see it ,is that the average person who does not possess any ability to read and absorb wording in a rule as to it's LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS is quite scary indeed.I would like to believe that maybe ,JUST MAYBE ,the Board has misdirected their intent to clarify Members adult family members guests as Members..See how quick it can become confusing?
What I think their intent is - Is to now state that adult family members of Members( definintion of family as defined per Declaration) will no longer be required to have a Member accompany the adult family member to the pool,lodge,playground,etc...I don't think they mean to say that adult family members of Members now can service the board,make rule,etc .......But then again I may be wrong- They may truly want all the kin folk to be Members by vitue of blood line alone.And if that is their intent and they vote and pass the Rule at a duly noticed and called meeting in December,the following Monday a.m. I will be making an appearance at my attorneys office to file a suit to prevent them to violate the Declaration clause that by virtue of DEED myself and my husband ALONE are Members..No where on my DEED is all my kin folk.........also the second thing is that they are ADDING not CLARIFYING "family" as per definition in our Declaration.They are ADDING/INSERTING BROTHERS ANS SISTERS to the defintion and that would require a vote of 2/3 Members to do so.. And I know Roger you are going to say that they are clarifying and I disagree,because they are ADDING 2 NEW WORDS ------Family was already clearly defined in Declaration...Will keep you posted on the outcome and as always comments are soooo apreciated..Thanks Bunches LINDAC
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Posted By LindaC3 on 11/04/2006 7:00 AM
I will be making an appearance at my attorneys office to file a suit to prevent them to violate the Declaration clause that by virtue of DEED myself and my husband ALONE are Members..No where on my DEED is all my kin folk.........also the second thing is that they are ADDING not CLARIFYING "family" as per definition in our Declaration.They are ADDING/INSERTING BROTHERS ANS SISTERS to the defintion and that would require a vote of 2/3 Members to do so.. And I know Roger you are going to say that they are clarifying and I disagree,because they are ADDING 2 NEW WORDS ------Family was already clearly defined in Declaration...Will keep you posted on the outcome and as always comments are soooo apreciated..Thanks Bunches LINDAC


Linda, reread my post "The wording is faulty and when it conflicts with your Declaration it does not apply." I agree with you that their wording is in conflict with the Declaration. It is not a clarification of it. Therefore, if passed it means nothing. Rather than contacting an attorney and filing suit, I would suggest a proactive approach. Send them a letter advising the Board that their current wording of their proposed rule would violate the Declaration. To be proactive you could enclose a proposed rule which would comply with the Declaration and achieve what you presume is their reasonable objective. Your post indicates you are very capable of drafting such a proposal.
WilliamT (Arizona)
Posts: 489
Posted:
I agree with Roger. The attorney will cost you a lot of money because he/she will have to read your entire CC&R's and Bylaws and research the state laws, all at a time when you are not present. You could be billed up to and possibly more than 16 hours of research time. Plus any letters she has to write to the board and respond to theirs.

This will place you in an adverserial position instead of being a proactive member as Roger suggests. A proactive member not only calls the boards attention to problems but volunteers to jump in and do work to correct the situation, in this case, to recommend proper wording for the document.

LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
Roger-- Thank you for the compliment.... This is a very difficult Board we are dealing with- To compound the issue is that 4 of the Board members are attorneys and I am aghast that as this is their field of expertise that they themselves do not understand or comprehend the legal ramifications of such a rule....I have had many a discussion with other Members about this rule and they DO NOT see a problem with it- They continue to live in a clouded haze and say there is NO WAY that the Board which has attorneys on it would EVER do anything that is wrong legally...As the present Rule is written before any amendments are added to it- It is flawed already .......I feel that when they describe Adult family members of Members the rule could use clairification as to THOSE WHO NORMALLY RESIDE with the Member would enjoy all the above privleges............As written it lends itself to imply "family" as defined per declaration...Read oringinal post for present Rule wording before amendment........I know I could rewrite the rule and be laughed right out of the meeting- blackballed and then harassed as other Members have for having an opinion....Believe me it happens all the time - and they are afraid to then stay invovled or get involved..what a shame that an HOA instills such apathy in its Members-- Now you know why I am running for the board..I may only be one voice but I would like to be that voice of REASON...Linda C
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
WilliamT-- You will be proud to know that I indeed have taken the proactive approach and rewrote the rule to be more concise and more easily understood by a lay person....I read it to a few of the Members here and they actually understood it the first time they heard it. They said that it did leave any doubt as to what the INTENT was of the Rule.So now our next step is to compose a nicely worded letter to the Board as a gesture of goodwill for the good of all the Members and ask they give due consideration to our presentation,ask for an opinion from the corporate attorney then place the item/amendment back to the Members for consideration and discussion.....Was well worth the time and effort and makes a girl feel good....Thanks for all your input GREAT GROUP....Linda C
WilliamT (Arizona)
Posts: 489
Posted:
Congratulations Linda, you should be very proud of your accomplishment. I'm very happy that you took the advice of your fellow board members and turned a negative situation into a very positive one.

It sounds like your board is happy with what you did.

Keep up the good work.
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
WilliamT---- I have not yet presented the reworded rule just yet to the BOARD......I am still working on verbage to the cover letter.....I only had a few of my fellow neighbors/Members read it, so to be assured that it was of a clear concise verbage that the average "joe" could understand..I know that we are pleased with our efforts and hope the Board will feel the same that the Members are not here to fight with them but to WORK with them to create a tranquil place where we can peacefully coexist and quit this infighting attitude.......LIFE IS WAY TOO SHORT FOR SUCH NONSENSE............have a GREAT DAY Linda C

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here