recall

Lori...Lori...Lori...

Seems like you have your hands full.

I will attempt to give my opinions on some of your issues.

Working from the end of your post this site does not represent the HOAs as the "evil empire" more to the point it is some of the posters who come here to fight their fight with a group that most of the time won't let them have THEIR way.

Rules we don't need no stinkin rules especially when they pertain to me.

Sounds to me like you have a few owners who now think THEY should be deciding what rules to enforce and what company should manage the property. IMO the decision on management companies lies with the Board NOT a group of homeowners who will not have dealings with the MC on a daily basis.

At the meeting where several owners were demanding they be replaced that several would be how many exactly????? 10,20, 100, 2000????

Out of how many units????

Dealing with a lawyer who has ties to the MC you have now informed of your desires to terminate results in several problems. Whose side are they on in the end? Where does their loyalty lie?

50 owners out of how many have suggested they support the current Board?

In the last election how many votes were cast?
In the last election how many of those votes did the current Board members recieve?

50 is a lot if you have say 60 units. If you have 475 units not so much.

The problem with your Board is they had a knee jerk reaction to this group of dissidents who have proven they have some influence on the actions of the Board.
Whoever ok'ed the sending of a termination letter without a full understanding of the contract that was in force screwed up royally.

How could anyone attempt to terminate a contract they never read? Bad move as it tips your hand to the MC and certainly will affect their already poor performance.

Did you find a replacement? And who made the determination as to who would be hired and on what basis?

As to your question about dueling petitions. I do not believe under most documents there is a provision under which one petition can be voided by the issuance of another counter petition. Never heard of such a thing or seen that happen. But under your doucments and state law this may be covered but I would doubt that.

As to the "defamation lawsuit" grounds, personally, I would forget about wasting time on that. In Board elections and in the attempts of some to replace or overthrow the Board many documents have been distributed making all kinds of threats, accusations, misrepresentations, and lies all in the effort to get what they want. You gone.

For me rather than taking offense I would do my own version of "Facts about the Board" with your side of this dispute making your case clearly and in the simplest of terms. Delivered to each home owner on the property whatever that takes. In my world you need to fight fire with fire. A civil suit for defamation will take probably years to resolve and you need to address the upcoming election and the future of your property.

As to whether your HOA attorney is available for a consultation to you personally I would guess NO would be my answer in filing a civil suit for defamation. And if they were the property would cover the legal cost? And that would serve the Board and property well? And this is the attorney with ties to the MC you have made a failed attempt to terminate. Bad move for many reasons IMO.

Good luck and I hope this might help or at least give you food for thought.

Regards,

From one of the "evil empire" members

Just for some clarification it was not only the loud people who wanted a new property manager it is basically everyone for several years now. However, the board was mainly the builder so nothing could get done. Last November the builder stepped off the board and appointed my and another person because we were the only ones that came to meetings (out of 255 homes)It has been really bad and itcontinues to be. We just decided that since people were getting more hostile about it we would take action. Now the most hostile ones say no that is not what we wanted even though it is in the minutes that they did. We actually appreciated their frustration. Now they say it is the board who is bad not the management company. We have only had 5 meetings as a new board and we have addressed everything that people have asked us to address. They are mad because when they get out of control we ask them to settle down or we will have to ask them to leave and when they don't we have to adjourn the meeting. The most hostile is running for the new board.

I appreciate all responses, I have become so familiarized with our bylaws, the Davis-Stirling Act and other rules this week-end just to find out the best and correct way to proceed. My ultimate desire is to do what is best for the community, if I get recalled I do. I actually do not take it personally. I amnot a big fan of any of the people who signed the recall, they are huge violators of the rules and they want to get in so that they can change them. I am not worried because in order for them to change them they have to bring it to a vote.

It's a shame, Lori.

I feel for you.

Basically it sounds to me like your board wasn't "bad," just "green."

It's unfortunate that your fellow association members can't give you all at least a full term to get up to speed!

There IS a learning curve in something like this, no doubt about it.

Perhaps the biggest mistake that was made was attempting to terminate the management company without first reading the contract to see if it could be done.

But that is certainly fixable, and it could even have a positive effect of letting the management company know that, they will need to up their game if they want to have the contract renewed.

I hope you try to stay on board.

Or at least ready to head up a SECOND recall when the NEW new board comes in and doesn't "fix everything" within the first 5 months!

First of all I do care if I get recalled but if I am there is not much I can do about that. Yes I do not want these renegade people being our board but if they can prevail I can not do much about it.
SORRY FOR THE CAPS BUT WANTED TO RESPOND TO EACH DETAIL AND THIS WAS THE EASY WAY. I'M SORRY BUT THERE IS PLENTY YOU CAN DO AS A BOARD MEMBER. INFORM THE 255 UNIT OWNERS OF WHAT IN FACT IS GOING ON AND WHO IS BEHIND THIS PETITION TO REMOVE THE BOARD. DRAFT A NOTICE FROM THE BOARD EXPLAINING YOUR ACTIONS AND PLANS AND EXPLAINING THAT JUST 16 OWNERS OUT OF 255 BELIEVE THIS PETITION WAS NECESSAY.

1. Sorry for the evil empire comment, I am just frustrated that there is not much about board members and their frustration.
BOARD MEMBERS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE FRUSTRATION WE ARE JUST SUPPOSED TO VOLUNTEER OUR TIME, TAKE ABUSE, TAKE BLAME, AND DO THE WORK THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE NEITHER WOULD HELP WITH OR WOULD BE CAPABLE OF DOING. MOST END UP EITHER DRINKING A LOT OR JUMPING FROM THE NEAREST BRIDGE.

2. I agree that the decision on the management company lies with the board. We have a horrible management company and if given the opportunity I think this present board could deal with the issues. I believe the issues will get bigger if the others win the election/recall.
16 OWNERS UNELECTED TO ANY POSITION DO NOT MAKE ANY DECISIONS.

3. We have 255 units

4. We have at least 100 owners who support the board. There were only 16 who signed the recall (5% as required).
MY MATH SKILLS MUST BE RUSTY OR THE BATTERIES IN THE CALULATOR OLD. IF YOU HAVE 100 OWNERS WHO SUPPORT YOU AND THEY HAVE 16 WILLING TO SIGN THAT PUTS YOU IN A GOOD POSITION. MY IDEA WOULD BE TO GET A CONCRETE LIST OF THOSE WHO SUPPORT THE BOARD AND THEN GO AFTER THE 139 OR SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE AN IDEA WHICH WAY THEY MIGHT VOTE. THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO WILL DETERMINE THE OUTCOME IN THIS VOTE AND IN FUTURE VOTES.

SOMETIMES YOU NEED TO LOOK DOWN THE ROAD. IF THIS GROUP IS BEATEN BACK SO BADLY IN THIS VOTE MORE THAN LIKELY A FEW WILL DROP THEIR SUPPORT OF THESE EFFORTS.

AGAIN, I WOULD SUGGEST YOU DRAFT A LETTER TO THE 255 UNIT OWNERS EXPLAINING THE DETAILS, THE NUMBER OF SUPPORTERS, AND WHY IT IS IMPORTANT FOR THEM TO VOTE IN SUPPORT OF THE CURRENT BOARD.

5. You are right we did make a huge mistake sending out a termination letter without fully understanding the document. However the document never had a date next to the signatures as to when it was signed. It mentions on the first page that it was June 1, 2006 but that was all. Is it valid? not sure. We do have an attorney reviewing it.
YOU NEED TO FOCUS ON PREVENTING THE RECAL OF YOUR BOARD #1.

6. yes we found a replacement management company who actually educated us quite a bit, that is where we realized the current company was worse then we thought and he suggested that we get a copy of the contract. The determination was made by all three of the board members.
I WOULD SUGGEST THE GRASS IS ALWAYS GREENER ON THE OTHER SIDE. IN MY LIFE THE BEST WAY TO CONFIRM THE PERFORMANCE OF A MC IS TO VISIT SOME OTHER PROPERTIES THEY MIGHT MANAGE.

7.I have found out that dueling petitions are not allowed.
YEAH THAT WOULD SEEM TO BE A ENDLESS PROCESS WITH NO REAL BENEFIT. I THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE THE CASE. MY PETITION IS BIGGER THAN YOURS DOESN'T WORK.

8.defamation lawsuit-we agree not worth the time or frustration.
YOU NEED TO FIGHT THE RECALL PETITION #1

9. I have thought about doing my own version of "Facts"
HATE TO BE BLUNT BUT THINKING IS NOT DOING. TIME TO INFORM THE OWNERS OF WHAT IS GOING ON ON THEIR PROPERTY. PRINT UP 239 COPIES (MINUS THE 16 THAT SIGNED) AND GET THEM OUT.

10. We have decided to consult an attorney outside of the management company. he does not charge to see if we have a case.

@Michele D-
Thank you...I did spend a lot of time yesterday not dealing with this. In other words breathed.

It is just the squeaky wheels have decided the MC is the cat's meow and the board is the one that needs removing.
I WOULD GUESS THE MC AND THE 16 MEMBERS OF THE GROUP LOOKING TO TOSS YOU OUT HAVE MADE AN ARRANGEMENT TO PAY BALL WITH EACH OTHER. IT SERVES BOTH THEIR AGENDAS TO WORK TOGETHER TO REMOVE YOU. THE 16 GET THEIR WAY AND THE MC KEEPS THEIR JOB.

I think it will be hard for them to get the votes.
WITH ALL DUE RESPECT. THERE IS AN OLD SAYING UP HERE. HOPING, WISHING, AND THINKING IS NOT A PLAN. THIS IS YOUR HOME,PERHAPS THE LARGEST INVESTMENT IN YOUR LIFE, AND IS WORTH THE EFFORT TO RESIST THE ATTMEPT TO REMOVE YOU.

I WOULD ASK THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE BOARD TO WORK WITH YOU AND IF NOT DO WHATEVER WAS NECESSARY TO ENLIST THE SUPPORT OF ALL THE PROPERTY OWNERS WHO DID NOT SIGN THIS PETITION.

THE OTHER OPTION WOULD BE THEY HEAR NOTHING FROM YOUR SIDE, THE OWNERS FAIL TO VOTE OR WORSE VOTE TO REMOVE AND YOUR PROPERTY SLIPS DOWN THE DRAIN.

TIME TO START DRAFTING A LETTER. SHORT, TO THE POINT, AND DIRECT.

JUST MY OPINION..................

thank you all for your responses. The board is very committed to this community and your responses have given us good direction. Will let you all know the outcome.

Lori,
I don't post much anymore but let me suggest something that may not be relevant to you but has been a lesson learned over the last twenty years.

It is sometimes helpful to look at an HOA problem viewed as a long term goal. Don't expect changes to be complete all at once. Your group of eight will change over time, your situation in the HOA will change over time. It sounds as if you all made some progress. Be happy with that, a little at a time over time will get you all where you want to go. After all, we think nothing of signing a 30 year mortage (in for the long run). Just let your eight keep leaning and you will crack the shell and make the changes you want. You have made a start, keep at it and ten years down the line, you can look back and gauge how effective you all were. Hang in there another six months, be smart, and keep chewing.