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JuliusC (Ohio)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Hello All,

I'm seeking some advice after many attempts to solve shared concerns in our community. The next step is small claims court and legal actions thereafter, if necessary.

First allow me to provide a general layout of our community. We reside in a subdivision community comprised of two separate phases of homes that were built a couple of blocks apart from each other. Phase I (25 units) and Phase 2 (48).

For several years now, homeowners (of phase 2) were paying HOA annual fees only to realize that the bulk of their fees were paying for the maintenance (entrance sign and undeveloped acres) of the other smaller phase I community. They were essentially paying for street lights, insurance, and the compensation of the administrative board member. It was also determined that the 67 foot acres that the phase 2 occupants do have, was being mostly mowed by the homeowner who reside next to it, but paying for it's maintenance. Additionally, the companies hired were being paid a high amount to care for the sliver of land, and was not actually being monitored thus resulting in a poor performance by these hired companies.

Since, these phase 2 homeowners have complained, but getting no results, including 3 years of their street lights not being on. The board members that live in the phase (whom lights were on in the area/street they reside on) said they didn't know, and were never told. THis is inaccurate. However, as of 2 weeks ago, they finally fixed these light after documented request was sent to them and copied to the community by one of the homeowners a year ago to fix the lights.

SOme of the other issues:

1. A request for viewing records and statements have been denied and it was communicated that it would cost $50.00 an hour for such recored to be accessed and copied.

2. One of the board members has been witnessed on multiple occassions yelling at some of these phase 2 homeowners in board meetings including the use of expletives, threatening tone, and asking specific homeowners during these meetings if they're going to pay they're fees. Addionally, reference some homeowners disrespectful labels.

3. It has been determined that secret HOA meetings were being held with the smaller phase I community, whom currently benefit the most from the current HOA structure, put contribute less in terms of homeowner's paying into the HOA. This recently has surfaced the HOA trying to build support from this phase to undermine and gain protection/support against disputes being made by the other phase homeowners.

4. The HOA has now pointed our that over a dozen of the phase 2 homeowners has now stopped paying (and some have not paid in years) their fees in HOA meetings which few attend, due to being so disengaged by their HOA.

5. Two of the phase II homeowners has now walked house to house apparently comprising pages of signatures from homeowners whose concerns has gone ignored and unaddressed.

6. For years until recently, there was no funds in the reserve account, and no one knows what happened to it.

7. There seems to be an attempt to currently turn the phases against each other, and the homeowners who started the collecting of signatures.

8. The developers, builders and the HOA adm has public knowledge records of being involved in negligent activity.

It is a mess and getting worse. There's much more than what has been provided above. Simply tryin to utilize all resources before initiating more aggressive solutions.

Please note that the option to simply move is not an option for most, especially in this economy. . That comes across to me honest and personally as a cop out, and allowing unacceptable HOA transgressions to go unabated, oppose to holding the HOA accountable to it's obligations and laws. This obviously is not what these homeowners signed up for or agreed to via the HOA contract at purchase (which some were not made aware).

Thanks for your time reviewing this somewhat lengthing post, but it was necessary.
JuliusC (Ohio)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I apologize for the obvious lack of proofreading before submitting the concerns.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
This obviously is not what these homeowners signed up for or agreed to via the HOA contract at purchase (which some were not made aware)

Well yes, unfortunately, they did sign up for it. They purchased a house in a home owners association, problems such as these happen every day across the USA. If they were not made aware of problems before purchasing, they didn't do their homework on the property.

It sounds like your development is still under developer control. Is it?

That said.......what is your question?
JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
The activists in your community need to remove the current board and elect a new board who will take better care of the community. Your documents will tell you how to remove a board.
Jeanne
JuliusC (Ohio)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thanks Jeannek3. Agreed. Your suggestion is one we're currently looking into.

SteveM9- Actually no, this is not what they signed up for as I specified previously. Several years ago (9) this was a new development and which time there were not problems, because the HOA had not taken shape yet. Slowly, but surely handlings early on seem to be playing out now. Secondly, as I stated previously, some of the homeowners were not aware of the existence of an HOA. A couple of board members has acknowledged this, so they would not have been inclined to do their homework. Please reread my original posting to grasp the question being presented. Neutral and concrete input is what I am seeking.

Pardon my bluntness, but I've been observing, getting involved and doing a massive amount of research on HOA's across the country, and many of these HOA's and how they are formed and forced on you is honestly close to being a sort of Ponzi Scheme in my opinion. Responses such as "Well, you bought the house", "you signed the contract", "move out", and "the cost will only be passed on to the homeowners" are unacceptable excuses to unacceptable and (in some cases) illegal activity being demonstrated by these HOA's. I know I'm new here, but I am beyond outraged at this point and encourage each and everyone of you to by all means "stand up".

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Julius, from your description of the property I’m assuming that you are a stand alone HOA rather than a Condo which is governed under ORC 5311. There is a bill (SB 187) stuck in the Ohio House which mirrors the provisions of 5311 for HOA’s so I encourage you and your neighbors to contact your State Representative to pass this bill. Now back to your post.

1. A request for viewing records and statements have been denied and it was communicated that it would cost $50.00 an hour for such recored to be accessed and copied.

(This fee does not seem out of line if you have a M.C. who has to pull the records and watch over them as they are inspected. Our M.C. charges $45.00 per hr. What do the CC&R’s call for?)

2. One of the board members has been witnessed on multiple occassions yelling at some of these phase 2 homeowners in board meetings including the use of expletives, threatening tone, and asking specific homeowners during these meetings if they're going to pay they're fees. Addionally, reference some homeowners disrespectful labels.

(Boorish and un-business like behavior to be sure and the remedy for this is to either vote them out at the next election or recall them now)

3. It has been determined that secret HOA meetings were being held with the smaller phase I community, whom currently benefit the most from the current HOA structure, put contribute less in terms of homeowner's paying into the HOA. This recently has surfaced the HOA trying to build support from this phase to undermine and gain protection/support against disputes being made by the other phase homeowners.

(Unless your documents call for open meetings, then unfortunately these meetings if they did happen are not illegal but they cannot allow phase I things not allowed in the CC&R’s.)

4. The HOA has now pointed our that over a dozen of the phase 2 homeowners has now stopped paying (and some have not paid in years) their fees in HOA meetings which few attend, due to being so disengaged by their HOA.

(Again not illegal, although I generally don’t recommend identifying the deadbeat by name the paying owners are entitled to know how much these freeloaders are costing them.)

5. Two of the phase II homeowners has now walked house to house apparently comprising pages of signatures from homeowners whose concerns has gone ignored and unaddressed.

(Great, more power to them.)

6. For years until recently, there was no funds in the reserve account, and no one knows what happened to it.

(The time to ask was when it disappeared although the H/O’s are entitled to a fair accounting. Has there ever been an audit and do your CC&R’s require one?)

7. There seems to be an attempt to currently turn the phases against each other, and the homeowners who started the collecting of signatures.

(Then you need to replace or recall the Board with others unwilling to play these types of games.)

8. The developers, builders and the HOA adm has public knowledge records of being involved in negligent activity.

(Not sure what this means. What type of negligent activity???? And if you are still under Declarant control then ignore all my responses as it’s his ballgame, his rules until the H/O’s takeover.)

Steve is correct you signed up for this when you bought into an HOA controlled development. An HOA isn’t good or evil but it can be used for either, it is simply a corporation set up to administer the property. It is controlled by the documents everyone has agreed to follow; administered by the people the homeowners elect to represent them and it is up to the homeowners to watch over the trustees and make sure they do their jobs.

Bottom line this is your HOA and you and your neighbors are going to have to be the ones to fix whatever problems you and they though apathy or negligence have allowed to occur. You do this by becoming involved going to meetings (if allowed and campaigning to open them if not) serving on committees or the Board. You also need to read the documents you agreed to be bound by when you bought into the HOA. That or you can sit back and whine and complain about how unfair it all is.

CC&R's (Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions)

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
My only comment is to reiterate what Steve and Glen has said regarding that this is exactly what people "signed up" for in a DEED RESTRICTED community (with our without an HOA), that is, to be bound by the controlling documents that run with the land

The "formal" HOA has only an administrative function, so whether one existed formally when Phase I or Phase II started is irrelevant.

I'm also curious if the development is still under declarant control. If so, then, yes you are a bit hamstrung by his (no doubt) over-riding votes.

Also, it's probably not in the homeowners in Phase II's best interests to opt out of paying their assessments, regardless of how well or how poorly they may feel the association is being run, the documents are being enforced or the alleged benefits others are getting that they are not.

If you documents say an assessment is mandatory, they must pay regardless. Unless they don't mind a lien being placed against their properties and perhaps even eventual foreclosure on that lien if they still fail to pay.

Anyway, with luck and hard work you and some diligent homeowners can get a decent enough level of support going and bring in a new board IF (and it's a big "if") the developer is no longer in control.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
as I stated previously, some of the homeowners were not aware of the existence of an HOA. A couple of board members has acknowledged this, so they would not have been inclined to do their homework.


I've never bought a house without a title search and looking into the property myself at the town hall. Most people don't do this. They just trust the Realtor. Realtors know little or nothing about your property other than what is on the listing sheet. They don't have time to research your house, they are in charge of selling/marketing it.

In 5 minutes I can pull a deed on a house, for free, from the town hall to look for deed restrictions, etc. Its the biggest purchase of your life, its worth a little homework before purchasing.

Quote:
I know I'm new here, but I am beyond outraged at this point and encourage each and everyone of you to by all means "stand up".


Life is too short to spend decades fighting your screwed up HOA. Selling is so much easier. Its just a house.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Steve this is something that never ceases to amaze me. Someone making what is potentially the biggest most expensive decision of their lives doing it without an attorney to protect their rights. If you've done it once or twice and understand the procedures and what to look out for it's one thing but when you have no basic understanding of the process? What's next, do it yourself home dentistry or surgery? Might as well give yourself that home lobotomy as to sign all those papers without knowing what they mean.

Pay an attorney a few hundred bucks and s/he will explain your rights and responsibilities because they work for you and your best interests. But most people can't be bothered to pay an attorney for something the friendly real estate agent will do for free. Never mind the agent's only real concern is getting the paperwork signed so they can get their commission check (not all of them but most) and if you're only dealing with the sellers agent, their primary responsibility is to their client not you.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
Might as well give yourself that home lobotomy as to sign all those papers without knowing what they mean


I agree GlenL. If you don't know what your doing seek a professional who does (not the real estate agent). Buying a house is no different.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Glen & Steve,

I agree with your remarks but some blame must also be cast on States that have inadequate or no disclosure laws. In AZ, when buying new construction the buyer must be given a copy of the public report and cannot sign the contract to buy until they have read it. The public report gives pertinent info about an HOA, if there is to be one. And, state law also requires certain documents to be provided a potential buyer b/4 closing takes place. Also, not wanting to spend $$$ on an attorney to check things out is one thing, choosing not to obtain title ins is quite another. I recall a title agent telling us how surprising it is to know how many people do not opt for this -- stupid, stupid, stupid.
JuliusC (Ohio)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Overall good feedback from all, thanks. Well, aside from the sarcastic responses.

1. Will review again the CC&R for ensuring a firm grasp on specific policies/violations.

2. A lawyer has been contacted and most of the actions taken so far are part of the feedback from the attorney, whom has not charged us yet for advising steps to take prior to needing their services. Including what to do with unpaid fees. WOW, you don't get that often! People actually being human, ethical and showing integrity.

3. Contacting our State Representatives is indeed the next and crucial step.

Most of the homeowners here are first time buyers (or suckers if you prefer), so the concept of having a lawyer and not just a realtor or yourself overlooking the closing/documents is a new concept to most. Many of the houses were not even built. It actually shows how much of problem this is when you need a lawyer to review HOA documents for thorough understanding. It is amazing what we can do to each other all in exchange for a buck. According to an HOA board member, the Phase I homeowners had a hand in structuring how the HOA would work. Including friends and family living there (lovely). As I said, there is much I have not mentioned in case someone familiar with this situation happens to view this posting. We have been told by a lawyer state, there are some things we are experiencing that a judge will very likely frown upon in regards to the HOA, regardless of certain laws.

You've all shared some things we were already aware of which is good, and two particulars we were not. Ultimately, standing up through all means possible still comes out as best option. continue...and doing our due diligence and homework.

Thanks all. If there is anything else that can be added besides that which has been shared, please feel free to do so.

Take Care
JuliusC (Ohio)
Posts: 5
Posted:
As mentioned before, many of the homeowners were unaware of an HOA and/or received no CC&R. For those HO's whom want a the "original" CC&R would they need to go through the HOA to get it?

Some fear these may have been tampered with if they reach out to the HOA.

thx
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JuliusC on 06/11/2010 9:37 AM
Well, aside from the sarcastic responses.


You get what you pay for. ;-)
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JuliusC on 06/11/2010 10:30 AM
As mentioned before, many of the homeowners were unaware of an HOA and/or received no CC&R. For those HO's whom want a the "original" CC&R would they need to go through the HOA to get it?

Some fear these may have been tampered with if they reach out to the HOA.

thx

Julius, the Covenants and any amendments should be available online from your County Recorders Office or you can copy them there if not online. To know if it is a valid copy from the builder there should be a BOOK # & PAGE # on every page. These correspond to the BOOK & PAGE where it is on file with the Recorders Office.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
BarbaraE1 (Texas)
Posts: 7
Posted:
If the board isn't showing financials, I would go to the State Comptroller and Secretary of State to see if they are in good standing.

The State Comptroller requires they have an exempt status with the state in order to be a non-profit.

The State Comptroller will revoke their charter if they are not providing exempt documentation.

If they are not in good standing, you can sue and the board members will be financially responsible until they can reinstate.

If you reserve the name if they are dissolved, then they can't take it back for 120 days and never if you reform with the original name, filing the proper paperwork.

Beat them at their own game.

They don't think anyone will challenge them.

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