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JaniceO (Georgia)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Our pool management/lifeguard company has refused to enforce "adult swim" during the first 10 minutes of each hour, as we have had for over 20 years, saying we could be sued for "age discrimination". My research shows that this issue is related to Fair Housing Law and applies to housing providers. We are a voluntary association and membership is not required of homeowners. In fact, the majority of community residents do not belong at all and pay nothing for the upkeep of any common areas, including our entrances. In addition, we accept members who do not live in our subdivision. It seems to me we are more of a private club and should not be subject to anti-discrimination laws related to housing. Does anyone have experience in this area?
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
If the pool is owned and operated by the HOA then yes IMO the housing laws apply and you are asking for a lawsuit but if in doubt contact an attorney.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JaniceO (Georgia)
Posts: 3
Posted:
I am in a protected class as an older person. Does that mean it is illegal for them to reserve the pool every weekday morning for three hours and one night a week for the sole use of the youth swim team? Would that not be discrimination against me by denying me equal access to the amenities based on age? I am not a person that would complain about the swim team....my daughter was on it when she was young and it's a great thing. I am just wondering how far these rules can go. Obviously 10 minutes an hour for adult swim is meant to give the lifeguard a break and to allow adults a bit of pool enjoyment and do some lap swimming without the mayhem of the kids, not to discourage families from using the pool or from living in our neighborhood.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Better and IMHO safer to just set the 10 minutes for lap swimming with no age limit.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
StephanieB5 (Georgia)
Posts: 1
Posted:
Adult Swim / Youth Swim Team??? It all seems equal to me. In my opinion, I don't see how you could be sued for adult swim as long as you have the youth swim team and they have an age limit to join the team.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By StephanieB5 on 06/08/2010 3:36 PM
Adult Swim / Youth Swim Team??? It all seems equal to me. In my opinion, I don't see how you could be sued for adult swim as long as you have the youth swim team and they have an age limit to join the team.

Stephanie common sense has little to nothing in common with bureaucrats and judges. A simple Google search of swim rules and HUD will give you a plethera of rulings on the subject but here are a few:

In HUD v. Paradise Gardens, a Florida administrative law judge ruled that a community association's rules limiting swimming pool use by children had no legitimate safety purpose and therefore violated the familial status provisions of the Federal Fair Housing Act. Paradise Gardens in Margate, Florida, had pool regulations which barred children under the age of 5 from the pool altogether and restricted 5 to 16 year olds to swimming between 11:00 a.m. and 2:00 p.m. The administrative law judge ruled that the time restrictions were actually intended to keep children from the pool completely because the hours available to them were when they were in school, or during summer vacation, at the time of most danger from the hot Florida sun. The judge also rejected health and safety arguments for barring younger children from the pool because expert testimony established that the sanitariness of a pool was unrelated to the age of the swimmers and that close parental supervision would assure the safety of children of any age. The association and three individuals were ordered to pay damages for emotional distress, humiliation and inconvenience to two complaining families $4,000 for one family and $3,500 for the other family. In addition, the judge assessed civil penalties of $3,000 against the association and $100 each against two of its spokespersons.

Federal judges in California have been equally protective of the rights of families with children. In the case of Llanos v. Coelho, a federal district judge held that an apartment complex's rules restricting children from swimming in several complex pools and from playing in "adult" areas violated the Federal Fair Housing Act. This case arose in the Del Monte Pines apartment complex in Fresno, California where a single mother with a baby daughter moved into the "adult" section of the complex. At the time she moved in, the Del Monte Pines was divided into a family section and an adult section. The complex had six swimming pools, of which only two were open to children. Children were also prohibited from riding bicycles, skating, riding skateboards, or playing in adult areas. The federal district judge concluded that the apartment complex's rules restricting children's access to certain facilities were discriminatory on their face. The judge rejected the apartment complex's arguments that the rules were required by a reasonable business reason and that they were justified by safety concerns for unsupervised children. He said that the prohibition on children playing in adult areas "effectively prohibit[ed] children from accessing a large area of the complex" and discriminated against families based on familial status.

An apartment complex in Torrance, California, discovered too late that its rule prohibiting children from playing in the building area at any time violated the Fair Housing Act. In the case of Fair Housing Congress v. Weber, a tenant and her minor son lived at the Vista De Anza Apartments for more than four years until they moved out after receiving an eviction notice. During the time they lived there, the apartment managers told the minor child not to splash in the swimming pool, bounce his basketball, or ride his bicycle. An apartment rule stated that children were not "allowed to play or run around inside the building area at any time because of disturbance to other tenants or damage the building property." The federal district judge held that the apartment complex's rule that prohibited children from playing in the building area was discriminatory on its face and violated the Fair Housing Act. The apartment complex maintained that the rule was justified because it accomplished the goals of insuring the children's safety and maintaining quiet. The judge found that these justifications were legitimate, but she concluded that the complex had not met its burden of showing that the rule was the least restrictive means of accomplishing these goals.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
KarenK15 (Minnesota)
Posts: 1
Posted:
We live in a retirement community where the residents grandchildren and their friends have taken over our pool. I have asked if adults could have one hour a day such as 6p-7p or something. My husband had a severe stroke 3 years ago which is why we moved into this community. He is paralyzed on his right side and lost most of his speech. The pool is very good for him but he is uncomfortable when the little children stare at him all the time. These children are not residents of the community they are visitors to our private pool. Is it against the law in this case to have an hour a day for adult swim time. Or could they get around it by calling it residents only swim hour? Please let me know your thoughts.

Warm regards,
Karen
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Residents Only would be perfect.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarenK15 on 07/10/2017 7:36 AM

Is it against the law in this case to have an hour a day for adult swim time. Or could they get around it by calling it residents only swim hour? Please let me know your thoughts.

Warm regards,
Karen

Yes.

Read the thread.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JaniceO on 06/08/2010 6:16 AM
Our pool management/lifeguard company has refused to enforce "adult swim" during the first 10 minutes of each hour, as we have had for over 20 years, saying we could be sued for "age discrimination". My research shows that this issue is related to Fair Housing Law and applies to housing providers. We are a voluntary association and membership is not required of homeowners. In fact, the majority of community residents do not belong at all and pay nothing for the upkeep of any common areas, including our entrances. In addition, we accept members who do not live in our subdivision. It seems to me we are more of a private club and should not be subject to anti-discrimination laws related to housing. Does anyone have experience in this area?

Based on what you said, you are a public pool and regardless Plaza Mobile Estates ruling applies. It would be allot different if you were A.) Age restricted community i.e. 55+ and B) you open to pool to the general public, you should consider revamping that. liability issue there.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarenK15 on 07/10/2017 7:36 AM
We live in a retirement community where the residents grandchildren and their friends have taken over our pool. I have asked if adults could have one hour a day such as 6p-7p or something. My husband had a severe stroke 3 years ago which is why we moved into this community. He is paralyzed on his right side and lost most of his speech. The pool is very good for him but he is uncomfortable when the little children stare at him all the time. These children are not residents of the community they are visitors to our private pool. Is it against the law in this case to have an hour a day for adult swim time. Or could they get around it by calling it residents only swim hour? Please let me know your thoughts.

Warm regards,
Karen

Plaza Mobile Estates ruling applies to you as well. Age Qualified communities can restrict age limits or "residents only" times, but be forewarned, FHA rules allow for children to live in age qualified communities with grandma and grandpa, thus making them "residents."
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Here are additional resources:

What Associations Should Know About Pool Rules & the Fair Housing Act from an attorneys site

POOL DISCRIMINATION from davis-stirling web site

A Q&A letter from HUD requested by an HOA

Keep in mind, my previous response on if such an act is illegal is not based on any legal training.
I should have said, based on my research, the answer would likely be yes.
I am not an attorney, I do not play one on TV and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night.
PitA
Posts: 1,416
Posted:
Personal KNOWLEDGE of 'my' HOA pool in South Carolina:

Since an owner may invite a non-owner to use the pool as a guest

and

any resident (owner or not) can use the pool

our pool is, in fact, a Class 'B' Public Pool.

We are a HOPA / HUD approved 55+ community.

We may NOT have 'adult only' rules or times.

We may NOT rent the pool out to the public at large w/o meeting ALL ADA requirements.

We MAY have 'lap swim only' hours. We don't, who would enforce?

We COULD have RESIDENTS ONLY times, but have no need.

NO RULE AFFECTING CHILDREN ONLY may be applied.

The ONE and ONLY exception is DHEC's rule requiring minors to be accompanied by an adult.

Governmental rule, not our rule.

The ONLY way to bar /limit children is to have a COMPLETELY PRIVATE pool accessible to actual owners only. Non-owner residents would have to be barred, as well as invited guests.

THEN it would be a private pool.

These are the facts.

All else is Ka-Ka (usually Tauric in nature)
CjC
Posts: 210
Posted:
Ours is the same as PITA but we have a dedicated lap lane at all times. There is a sandwich board that is bright yellow at both ends tat says Lap lane Only. No adult swim. The Swim team for kids actually rents out the pool and must provide life guards.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CjC on 07/11/2017 10:17 AM
Ours is the same as PITA but we have a dedicated lap lane at all times. There is a sandwich board that is bright yellow at both ends tat says Lap lane Only. No adult swim. The Swim team for kids actually rents out the pool and must provide life guards.

Do you know how much they rent it for? Did you have to notify your insurance carrier of this practice?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
WE have a few lap sw swimmers in our community of 200+ condos. To dedicate one lane for lap swimming only would not be feasible and we have just many pool exercisers who roam around quite a bit in the water. A dedicated lane also would seem to s discriminate against kids to young to be able to swim laps. I know I'm sounding picky, but I do think that argument could be made.

But maybe CjC's pool is much larger than ours, where one :and would be about 20-25% of the width of our pool

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