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BobW5 (Arizona)
Posts: 21
Posted:
During the last several Christmas/Hannakah seasons, residents have placed religious displays on common area without ARC or Board permission. This year a complaint was made as to whether the Board should allow any religious symbols on common area. Our attorney's opinion was that the Board could allow it as long as they did not spend HOA money on only one religion, i.e., nativity scene. Our CC&Rs and By-laws do not address this issue specifically.

Since this issue will come up again this year, I was wondering if any other HOA has dealt with this matter and how.

Thanks for your help.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Why do you think it matters if it's a religious display or not?

An HOA is a private corporation, not a government or even pseudo- or quasi-government agency.

If the controlling documents do not allow residents to use the common areas for purposes of placing any displays, religious or otherwise, then none of the decorations can be allowed.

If the controlling documents do allow for residents to place displays on the common areas, then the board can likely set rules and regulations as to what those can and can't be.

However, again, as the association is a private corporation, if it wants to allow religious displays it is perfectly within its rights and abilities to do so. (again, presuming that the controlling documents allows for the board to establish such rules for the common areas.)

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Perhaps the board could post a generic message - PEACE ON EARTH or HAPPY HOLIDAYS and not allow any others.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
I think the issue is that RESIDENTS are placing displays on COMMON AREA without permission?

Am I correct in that conclusion?

If so, then any display, regardless of secular or religious, would be in appropriate, if the board did not place it there.

Where is the common area that is being so horribly victimized?

At the front entrance?

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
I can just read the newspaper article now........
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Well,
I suppose you could set aside a specific area for posting all signs and only allow them to be posted for one week or something.

We have decorated our common areas for twenty years with lights each December and take them down the first of the year. No complaints for twenty years. No signs of any kind can be posted, religious or otherwise allowed........ever. It would be hard to establish that lights endorse a religious belief. The work is done by volunteers and scant money is spent. If the association wanted to hang paper plates from the trees, I expect they have the right to do this at our place as long as they didn't put writing on them. What webs ye mortals weave, when first you practiced to deceive.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
The BOD putting up items on the common area is one thing.

RESIDENTS taking it upon themselves to place items, religious or otherwise, on the common area is quite another.

If the residents want to donate the items to the association and the board then can decide whether it will put them up or not, that's completely reasonable.

And, quite frankly, why would the media be interested in what an HOA puts up on its own common area.

It's not like the HOA is restricting decorations on homeowners OWN properties.

Though I do know of some who have CC&Rs that place restrictions on decorations. Not the TYPE but the quantity and how long they can be up.

On the other hand, there is a street in our city that has an Association and the CC&Rs of that association REQUIRE homeowners to put up decorations for both Halloween and Christmas.

If you don't, then you are fined.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Michael,
Another "sticky wicket". I'm not sure what a wicket is but I think it has something to do with, "Cricket".

Anyway, there is lots of things that go on that can bear scrutiny if someone objects. Hard to keep your personal feelings out of the issue, and frankly I don't try too hard. If it feels wrong to me I just might say it should feel wrong to others, especially about religion. I have no problem with different religions but resent that some want to force me not to believe in what I believe in because they feel I am somehow harming them, if I show my feelings.
I do believe HOAS's can and do, for the most part, act fairly about what is allowed to be displayed on common property.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
I don't know what a wicket is, either.

I thought it was that little wire arch that you hit the ball through in croquet.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Naw,
That's a "stick it", no that's not right.
Why did you bring up the subject anyway?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Michele & Robert,

FYI. . .

Below are the definitions from Merriam's Dictionary. As you can see, "sticky wicket" has nothing to do with "wicket". BTW, Robert, I believe you brought up the topic of a sticky wicket.

Main Entry: sticky wicket
Function: noun
Date: 1882
: a difficult or delicate problem or situation

Main Entry: wick·et
Pronunciation: \ˈwi-kət\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English wiket, from Anglo-French, probably of Germanic origin; akin to Old Norse vīk inlet, corner
Date: 13th century
1 : a small gate or door; especially : one forming part of or placed near a larger gate or door
2 : an opening like a window; especially : a grilled or grated window through which business is transacted
3 a : either of the two sets of three stumps topped by two crosspieces and set 66 feet apart at which the ball is bowled in cricket b : an area 10 feet wide bounded by these wickets c : one innings of a batsman; specifically : one that is not completed or never begun
4 : an arch or hoop in croquet
BonnieE (Illinois)
Posts: 338
Posted:
How about this (I always find the origins of phrases interesting):

Copied from: http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/334550.html

A sticky wicket

Meaning: A difficult situation.

Origin

A wicket is, of course, the playing surface used in cricket. This phrase is a direct allusion to the difficulty of playing on a wet and sticky pitch. The earliest citations of the expression refer specifically to cricket. For example, Bell's Life in London, July 1882:

"The ground... was suffering from the effects of recent rain, and once more the Australians found themselves on a sticky wicket."

For the figurative use of the phrase we need look no further than the cricket-playing countries of the British Empire and Commonwealth. The first such citation that I've found is from the Jamaican newspaper The Gleaner, April 1930:

"Your Excellency, Sir William Morrison, and gentlemen. I am afraid tonight, owing to the rain we have had in this island of Springs, I am batting on rather a sticky wicket. We have just heard Sir William Morrison make, in my opinion, a magnificent speech. I do not hope or think of living up to that."


BonnieE (Illinois)
Posts: 338
Posted:
I live in a townhouse-style condo in IL. We have rules/regs regarding holiday decorations (we do not differentiate between types of décor) addressing where they can be placed, how they may be hung (no nails into the building walls), when/how long (up to 30 days prior to and following a holiday).

Other décor is allowed – such as items hung on the front door, décor in/on patios, decks, planting beds near the HO front door and patio. We prohibit hanging anything from the trees; suggest use of garden hooks for feeders and flowers and such.

Bonnie

PS - The Master HOA (single family homes and 2 condo HOAs) do not have any rules/prohibitions re decorations. The Village ordinance applies - mainly addressing when/how long (same as above) and probiting running electrical lines across the sidewalk.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Mary,
See, I don't admit to anything, just in case I am wrong. However I admit I used it first, except Michele made me do it.

Since it turns out my descriptive term was on the money I feel pretty good and you have my permission to call your husband that if you desire.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Bonnie,
You know, you keep this up and we are going to have to start dealing in fact, a subject that has been challenging since childhood.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
I see this much like hanging election campaign signs in the common areas. It seems someone is trying to dare the board to ask them to remove or to have a maintenance person take down the decoration. It's instant victimization! I'd think common areas should stay clean.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
I agree Bonnie, they should stay clean.

But no enforcement for this will be 100%, 100% of the time. So, the association is taxed with how to do the job the best they can........not perfection.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Our covenants do not allow any signage on any common area, other than security and no trespassing signs.

So it's a moot point. If someone places any sort of signage, or display, religious, political or simply humorous (Lawdy Lawdy, Ms. Giggles is Fawty!), on our association's common areas, we would remove them.

We have a covenant that allows certain signage on homeowner lots (political signs within a time frame, security signs, lot-for-sale signs), and there is no restriction on holiday displays.

BobW5 (Arizona)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Thank you all for your replies on this issue. The BOD has since resolved the the problem with a clarifying statement on common area use for decorations. Bobw

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