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Management Company charging 8% fee for projects over $10K - Common?

Started by JoelM1 • 43 replies • 2828 views

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JoelM1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 61
Posted:
Our new management company has a clause in their contract that states any project we take on which cost more than $10K (our painting cycle, drainage project etc.) requires an 8% payment to be made to them for their managment contributions of the project. We are a Townhome community of 225 units and we already pay a fairly high fee to the MC so this comes as a bit of a shock.

I was wondering if this is something that Management Companies commonly charge? I know our previous MC did not have this charge.

Thanks
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Joel,

Some mgmt co's will charge whatever fees they can get away with! Perhaps you should have stayed with the old mgmt co.

BTW, since you speak of your new mgmt co, are you saying the BOD signed the contract with that clause? If so, then you're stuck with it. Next time they should read the fine print before signing!
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Joel:

BEFORE hiring a new company did you not go over their contract?

Or did you just sign whatever they presented and now have read it?

Our current MC was hired after we went through his entire contract line by line discussing what we would like and what we would not agree to.

Included was the same clause you are asking about.

We informed them we would not agree to those terms as I knew we had several large and costly projects planned and thias would have added thousands to their cost. Not a wise use of the payments made by the unit owners.

If you signed this contract for now it is to late. It is renews automatically then changing it now might become quite an issue for you going forward.

I would guess many companies put that sort of clause in it would be up to the Board (client) to review the contract BEFORE signing.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
What he ^^^^^ said.

The contract was signed with the clause.

It doesn't matter if it's "typical" or not, whomever negotiated, read and then signed the contract created the problem.

JoelM1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 61
Posted:
Man you guys are tough.... yes our BOD was presented a stack of papers from the new management company, and rather then read them we just blindly signed them because Dancing with the Stars was on that night and we all really wanted to get back in time to see the results.

The actual scenario is that our current management company was small and the owner/attorney who ran that company died in the middle of our contract. His practice was sold to the our "new management company" and as such we remained under the our old contract. To carry on with this new management company we will need to sign a new contract which contains the surcharge I mentioned.

That being said, why should I need to explain this? My question was not whether we are obligated to pay for a surcharge because we blindly signed a contract stating that it was necessary. It is comical how "some" posters on here jump at the opportunity to lecture and talk down to people asking simple/legitimate questions.
DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565
Posted:
Sounds like you have a choice to make - is it worth the 8% surcharge on large projects to stay with that management company?

If you have not yet signed a new contract, which is what it sounds like, you might want to consider soliciting bids from other management companies. Just the fact of your doing that might be enough to get the current company to agree to delete that clause from the contract.
JoelM1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 61
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidW5 on 05/13/2010 9:40 AM
Sounds like you have a choice to make - is it worth the 8% surcharge on large projects to stay with that management company?

If you have not yet signed a new contract, which is what it sounds like, you might want to consider soliciting bids from other management companies. Just the fact of your doing that might be enough to get the current company to agree to delete that clause from the contract.

Yes David - definitely faced with a choice (and a tough one). That was kind of what I was getting at with my question. I was wondering if that 8% charge is something we are likely to see with most other management companies when we solicit new bids or if this was a really unique thing to this current management company.
JoelM1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 61
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidW5 on 05/13/2010 9:40 AM
Sounds like you have a choice to make - is it worth the 8% surcharge on large projects to stay with that management company?

If you have not yet signed a new contract, which is what it sounds like, you might want to consider soliciting bids from other management companies. Just the fact of your doing that might be enough to get the current company to agree to delete that clause from the contract.

Yes David - definitely faced with a choice (and a tough one). That was kind of what I was getting at with my question. I was wondering if that 8% charge is something we are likely to see with most other management companies when we solicit new bids or if this was a really unique thing to this current management company.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Joel,

The reason some of us jumped on the issue of whether the board new about this clause before signing the contract is because you stated your mgmt co is charging this fee and wondered if this was normal. That is a question that should have been asked before the contract was entered into. If you had said your BOD was sending out bids for a new mgmt co and one came back with this fee and you wondered if it was normal, then you wouldn't have been lectured about reading a contract before signing it.

Here where I live I don't believe this is normal. However, I don't know what "normal" is in your area of the country. I suggest you check around with other mgmt co's in your area and ask if they charge such a fee.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoelM1 on 05/13/2010 8:00 AM

That being said, why should I need to explain this? My question was not whether we are obligated to pay for a surcharge because we blindly signed a contract stating that it was necessary. It is comical how "some" posters on here jump at the opportunity to lecture and talk down to people asking simple/legitimate questions.

It's also comical how people who ask questions respond with shock when they don't get the answer they want.

No one is "talking down" to you; and asking people from all over the country, instead of bidding out and getting the information directly from other management companies doesn't seem like a very good way to negotiate a new contract.

It may be a completely ridiculous clause to HOAs with management companies in Kentucky or Colorado, or Texas, but a fair and relatively low percentage in Pennsylvania, Ohio, or New York.

In other words, draft a Request for Proposal and get the information directly from the horses' mouths when the management companies bid on the proposal.

And, as Jon pointed out, even if several come back with a similar rate, you can still attempt to negotiate it down.

There are probably several elements of the contract that may need negotiation.

Good luck to you.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
I’ve seen management contracts with similar fee’s attached. You also have to remember that like HOA’s Management Companies are a business but unlike HOA’s they are designed to make a profit. When they bid to become a MC for a HOA they factor in the normal costs of doing business including devoting X amount of time to a community for maintenance items, accounting etc. Then along comes a big time intensive project and if the MC is supposed to supervise it they want to be paid for it.

If you don’t like the clause, talk to them about it and see if you can negotiate a lower percentage or eliminate it altogether. Also you need to have spelled out in writing just what services you are receiving for the 8% and if they apply if the MC is not involved i.e. the BOD writes the RFP and accepts the bids.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Joel, we do not have that charge. I suggest your Board be involved in what you want in a management agreement and then send it out with an RFP to get bids. The party drating an agreement will create it in their favor so either have the Board create the agreement or at a minimum adjust it to the wants of the Board since they control the bucks.
JoelM1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 61
Posted:
Glen, Roger - thanks for your responses. Good advice which I will pass on to our board.

Jon, Michele, David, Mary - Thank you guys also. Your advice to read the contract BEFORE signing it is also very valuable. I will be sure to bring this to our board's attention.

Let me just make sure I understand because it is sort of complicated. So you guys are saying that the order that things should occur is read then sign right? What if someone has a question about something they read. Would the order then be read, sign, ask questions or would it be read, ask questions, sign? What if we read part of it, then partially sign (like say the first two letters of the name), then ask some questions? We would have to make sure that the ratio of what is read does not surpass the ratio of what is sign because we may get a situation where the signature is complete but there is still a page or two to read. Damn - so complicated....If we have questions about this whole concept of reading BEFORE signing would it be OK if I ask some further questions to you all? I might make an acronym to help remember the order "Read, Ask, Sign" - R.A.S. Perfect! RAS I am sure that I will be able to remember "RAS" when it comes time to sign!
JoelM1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 61
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoelM1 on 05/13/2010 1:12 PM
Glen, Roger - thanks for your responses. Good advice which I will pass on to our board.

Jon, Michele, David, Mary - Thank you guys also. Your advice to read the contract BEFORE signing it is also very valuable. I will be sure to bring this to our board's attention.

Let me just make sure I understand because it is sort of complicated. So you guys are saying that the order that things should occur is read then sign right? What if someone has a question about something they read. Would the order then be read, sign, ask questions or would it be read, ask questions, sign? What if we read part of it, then partially sign (like say the first two letters of the name), then ask some questions? We would have to make sure that the ratio of what is read does not surpass the ratio of what is sign because we may get a situation where the signature is complete but there is still a page or two to read. Damn - so complicated....If we have questions about this whole concept of reading BEFORE signing would it be OK if I ask some further questions to you all? I might make an acronym to help remember the order "Read, Ask, Sign" - R.A.S. Perfect! RAS I am sure that I will be able to remember "RAS" when it comes time to sign!

Sorry - I made a mistake.. David you were not one of the "You should read before signing" crew. I cannot credit you for that wonderful advice. Sorry.
DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482
Posted:
My MC doesn't charge but we may be small enough that it isn't an issue.

I do have empathy for Joel's frustration with the quality, relevancy and value of some responses. He's not out of line.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoelM1 on 05/13/2010 1:12 PM
Glen, Roger - thanks for your responses. Good advice which I will pass on to our board.

Jon, Michele, David, Mary - Thank you guys also. Your advice to read the contract BEFORE signing it is also very valuable. I will be sure to bring this to our board's attention.

Let me just make sure I understand because it is sort of complicated. So you guys are saying that the order that things should occur is read then sign right? What if someone has a question about something they read. Would the order then be read, sign, ask questions or would it be read, ask questions, sign? What if we read part of it, then partially sign (like say the first two letters of the name), then ask some questions? We would have to make sure that the ratio of what is read does not surpass the ratio of what is sign because we may get a situation where the signature is complete but there is still a page or two to read. Damn - so complicated....If we have questions about this whole concept of reading BEFORE signing would it be OK if I ask some further questions to you all? I might make an acronym to help remember the order "Read, Ask, Sign" - R.A.S. Perfect! RAS I am sure that I will be able to remember "RAS" when it comes time to sign!

You are being an ass.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Joel you posted:
"Our new management company has a clause in their contract that states any project we take on which cost more than $10K (our painting cycle, drainage project etc.) requires an 8% payment to be made to them for their managment contributions of the project. We are a Townhome community of 225 units and we already pay a fairly high fee to the MC so this comes as a bit of a shock."

You think maybe adding the words;
"Our new management company has a clause in their contract that they want us to sign that states any project we take on which cost more than $10K (our painting cycle, drainage project etc.) requires an 8% payment to be made to them for their managment contributions of the project. We are a Townhome community of 225 units and we already pay a fairly high fee to the MC so this comes as a bit of a shock."

might have prevented the misunderstanding in the first place? We can only respond to the information posted and your OP gave the impression that it was a done deal and you didn't realize it was in there until it was a done deal.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JoelM1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 61
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 05/13/2010 10:31 PM
Joel you posted:
"Our new management company has a clause in their contract that states any project we take on which cost more than $10K (our painting cycle, drainage project etc.) requires an 8% payment to be made to them for their managment contributions of the project. We are a Townhome community of 225 units and we already pay a fairly high fee to the MC so this comes as a bit of a shock."

You think maybe adding the words;
"Our new management company has a clause in their contract that they want us to sign that states any project we take on which cost more than $10K (our painting cycle, drainage project etc.) requires an 8% payment to be made to them for their managment contributions of the project. We are a Townhome community of 225 units and we already pay a fairly high fee to the MC so this comes as a bit of a shock."

might have prevented the misunderstanding in the first place? We can only respond to the information posted and your OP gave the impression that it was a done deal and you didn't realize it was in there until it was a done deal.

My post had one simple question in it. It was the last sentence to make it clear.

"I was wondering if this is something that Management Companies commonly charge? I know our previous MC did not have this charge. "

What possible purpose could it serve to not answer this question, but state that "you should have read the contract first dumba$$" (I am paraphrasing)?

The question that you guys answered was "Our MC is charging us an 8% surcharge. We did not realize this was in the contract. Are we still obligated to pay this surcharge?" If that is what I asked then your responses were great and entirely called for.

There are people on here that "get off" on lecturing and talking down to posters. In this case the desire was so great, that my question was completely ignored, it was twisted into a different question simply to allow the response to be a lecture. Deny all you want, but it happens all the time on here.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Joel:

When you come to a public fourm such as this and ask for the opinions of others you open yourself up to any and all responses. Not just the ones that satisfy you.

If you ask then be prepared for the answers. If you cna't handle the opinions of others then don't ask.

Then you can consider those you value or disregard those that do not prove useful.

Real simple process.

Instead you bring along some defensive posture that reads some replys as lectures and "talking down".

I would guess defending that belief was in the end more important than getting an answer to your question.

I and others gave their opinions, if you found them offensive or some attempt to "talk down" to you speaking for myself I can live with that.

I would guess this would not be the first time you felt the need to "defend" yourself against a percieved attack from others. Now that's comical.........

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Joel,

You said: "What possible purpose could it serve to not answer this question, but state that "you should have read the contract first dumba$$" (I am paraphrasing)?"

Now you're the only one here who has used the term "dumba$$" -- so, if the shoe fits, wear it!
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DanielH1 on 05/13/2010 2:04 PM
My MC doesn't charge but we may be small enough that it isn't an issue.

I do have empathy for Joel's frustration with the quality, relevancy and value of some responses. He's not out of line.

Of course he is. When we don't get complete information, we can only reply to what is there.

And in a text-only environment, it's easy to read things in ways they were not meant nor intended.

I'm sure neither he nor you are newcomers to the web or online forums.

His trite and overly sarcastic response above was what crossed the line, and he knows it.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
This is how I see it.

You hired the mgmt company to do "x" every year. If the management company has to deal with the project, this is outside of the original deal you agreed to pay "x" for. So the mgmt company has to spend additional payroll hours and resources to deal with your special project. The mgmt company needs to make a profit, therefore they cannot take on additional tasks for free. In this scenario, I would have no problem paying them. Maybe not 8%, maybe hourly, but something.

If the BOD is hiring the contractor, and dealing with the contractor directly and the mgmt company never needs to talk to or get involved in any way, I would ask the mgmt company to ignore this project and their 8% because it doesn't concern them. If they refused, let them know continued business with your HOA is in jeopardy. Go to the president of the mgmt. company if you have to. If they still refuse, find another mgmt company that is a better fit.
JoelM1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 61
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JonD1 on 05/14/2010 6:51 AM
Joel:

When you come to a public fourm such as this and ask for the opinions of others you open yourself up to any and all responses. Not just the ones that satisfy you.

If you ask then be prepared for the answers. If you cna't handle the opinions of others then don't ask.

Then you can consider those you value or disregard those that do not prove useful.

Real simple process.

Instead you bring along some defensive posture that reads some replys as lectures and "talking down".

I would guess defending that belief was in the end more important than getting an answer to your question.

I and others gave their opinions, if you found them offensive or some attempt to "talk down" to you speaking for myself I can live with that.

I would guess this would not be the first time you felt the need to "defend" yourself against a percieved attack from others. Now that's comical.........


I have no problem handling the responses. I replied to them and pointed out that they did not answer the question I asked (in any way shape or form), and they came across as a "lecture." Both of these points are true. As you say - if you cannot handle my response then you should not be posting on a public forum.

Defending my belief was not more important. I was able to multitask in this situation - I responded to the lame lectured responses, and I read the good responses and plan to pursue them.
JoelM1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 61
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MicheleD on 05/14/2010 7:06 AM
Posted By DanielH1 on 05/13/2010 2:04 PM
My MC doesn't charge but we may be small enough that it isn't an issue.

I do have empathy for Joel's frustration with the quality, relevancy and value of some responses. He's not out of line.

Of course he is. When we don't get complete information, we can only reply to what is there.

And in a text-only environment, it's easy to read things in ways they were not meant nor intended.

I'm sure neither he nor you are newcomers to the web or online forums.

His trite and overly sarcastic response above was what crossed the line, and he knows it.


Michele - Exactly what information was missing from my post that prevented the question from being answered? I asked if the 8% surcharge was common on MC agreements - that was it. I told you exactly what the surcharge applied to. What other information did you need to answer this question?
JoelM1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 61
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 05/13/2010 10:31 PM
Joel you posted:
"Our new management company has a clause in their contract that states any project we take on which cost more than $10K (our painting cycle, drainage project etc.) requires an 8% payment to be made to them for their managment contributions of the project. We are a Townhome community of 225 units and we already pay a fairly high fee to the MC so this comes as a bit of a shock."

You think maybe adding the words;
"Our new management company has a clause in their contract that they want us to sign that states any project we take on which cost more than $10K (our painting cycle, drainage project etc.) requires an 8% payment to be made to them for their managment contributions of the project. We are a Townhome community of 225 units and we already pay a fairly high fee to the MC so this comes as a bit of a shock."

might have prevented the misunderstanding in the first place? We can only respond to the information posted and your OP gave the impression that it was a done deal and you didn't realize it was in there until it was a done deal.

Glen - I asked whether the surcharge was common on MC agreements. What is the relevance of whether it was a done deal or not?
DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565
Posted:
This thread has gotten way out of hand and way off topic. Why don't those who want to continue this silly discussion (argument) take it elsewhere?
JoelM1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 61
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 05/14/2010 7:21 AM
This is how I see it.

You hired the mgmt company to do "x" every year. If the management company has to deal with the project, this is outside of the original deal you agreed to pay "x" for. So the mgmt company has to spend additional payroll hours and resources to deal with your special project. The mgmt company needs to make a profit, therefore they cannot take on additional tasks for free. In this scenario, I would have no problem paying them. Maybe not 8%, maybe hourly, but something.

If the BOD is hiring the contractor, and dealing with the contractor directly and the mgmt company never needs to talk to or get involved in any way, I would ask the mgmt company to ignore this project and their 8% because it doesn't concern them. If they refused, let them know continued business with your HOA is in jeopardy. Go to the president of the mgmt. company if you have to. If they still refuse, find another mgmt company that is a better fit.

Steve - I agree with you. I think the flat percentage can be really unfair. There could be a $50K project (like our painting cycle) which involves very little co-ordination/administration by the MC company. Right there were are talking $4K for a few hours work. There could also be a $50K project (lets say a new parking lot) that involves alot of co-ordination/administration (permits, inspections, legal etc.) and $4K is quite reasonable. I think making it an hourly charge is more fair, as well like you say, there should be the ability to opt out of having the MC administer a large project and have the BOD handle on their own.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Obviously Joel everyone else is wrong and only you would be right.

Probably not limited to the issues you have brought to this site.

Several people answered your post in the way THEY saw fit not being required to satisfy YOUR beliefs.

You can continue your efforts to achieve victory alone from this point on.

"Right fighters" people whose only goal is to prove themselves correct when in the end it neither matters nor serves any useful purpose.

So keep making you point over and over again and hope everyone else will see it your way. I do not.

And your selfserving explanations to your actions is what's lame.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
SteveM, shame on you!!!!! You didn't answer his question and provided information he did not ask for.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JoelM1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 61
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 05/14/2010 8:27 AM
SteveM, shame on you!!!!! You didn't answer his question and provided information he did not ask for.

He provided insightful and relevant info to the question.

"You should have read the contract first" - neither relevant nor insightful.
JoelM1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 61
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JonD1 on 05/14/2010 8:26 AM
Obviously Joel everyone else is wrong and only you would be right.

Probably not limited to the issues you have brought to this site.

Several people answered your post in the way THEY saw fit not being required to satisfy YOUR beliefs.

You can continue your efforts to achieve victory alone from this point on.

"Right fighters" people whose only goal is to prove themselves correct when in the end it neither matters nor serves any useful purpose.

So keep making you point over and over again and hope everyone else will see it your way. I do not.

And your selfserving explanations to your actions is what's lame.

It sure sounds like you are trying to prove yourself right - I guess we are "right fighting" brothes at heart.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Joel:

Wrong again. I'm way past living to prove something. Especially to those I more than likely will never know first hand or meet face to face.

This is simply a forum to throw questions around, my self worth is not dependent on the responses I get or who agrees with me.

Did you ever bother to consider you might be the problem?
Or is it just easier to find blame and fault in others and not yourself?

No Joel when I have a question and ask it I am able to handle whatever comes back and not complain about the responses.

So long.............

JoelM1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 61
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JonD1 on 05/14/2010 9:05 AM
Joel:

Wrong again. I'm way past living to prove something. Especially to those I more than likely will never know first hand or meet face to face.

This is simply a forum to throw questions around, my self worth is not dependent on the responses I get or who agrees with me.

Did you ever bother to consider you might be the problem?
Or is it just easier to find blame and fault in others and not yourself?

No Joel when I have a question and ask it I am able to handle whatever comes back and not complain about the responses.

So long.............


OK - fair enough. Lets agree to disagree and move on.
DaveF3 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I am the owner of a management company in Southwest Florida. Many of our competitors charge, on average, a 10 - 15% fee for captial improvements regardless of the cost. We do not, for the simple reason we are not engineers, general contractors, or any other type of professional that may be qualified to sign off on capital improvements. Will we look at a building to see if it has been painted, yes, or to see if the asphalt has been sealcoated, absolutely. But we are not qualified to say whether or not it was a quality job. We do recognize shoddy work when we see it, though. But should differences of opinion result in legal action, our opinion counts for absolutley nothing in the court, other than as a witness to what may or may not have been said.

What we will do is assist the board in soliciting bids for major improvements. We try to utilize qualified professionals in drawing up bid specs. Once we have those, we mail the request for proposal to a list of contractors chosen by the board. The bid is then awarded by the board at a board meeting. This is all part of our services and doesn't, in my opinion, justify a fee of that nature.

My opinion is that unless a management company can offer something substantial with regards to the work being done, the fee is excessive and unwarranted. You would be better off hiring a licensed engineer or a general contractor to oversee the work. From a management company's point of view, the liability is too much in the event something goes wrong.

I would be curious though to know what benefit the association gets from the management company by paying them 8% of the total contract. I just can't see it and I've been doing this for 20 years. On a side note, I would love to be able to charge an 8% fee for capital improvements. I personally manage a condiminium with 3 high rise buildings that are going to paint next year. The estimates so far are in excess of $500,000.

Anyway, just my opinion for what it's worth.
JoelM1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 61
Posted:
Thanks Dave -

Question for you as a MC owner. What if a project came up that was not a routine sort of thing that required a lot of admin/planning work but not work that needed any kind of special skill? Say for instance that (and I am completely making this up) you have 1000 units in your development and the association has decided they will paint everyone's front door as a one time thing (because there was something wrong with the paint the builder's used originally). Each owner has a choice between 5 colors, and each owner has to be present when the painting is being done. It will potentially take many hours to gather choices and set up appointments.

Is your typical contract written in a way that you would handle the coordination of this project and payment would be wrapped in your standard fees? Is this something that you would stay away from and have either the board or the selected vendor deal with? Would you offer to coordinate it, but negotiate a separate fee?
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
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JohnB26 (South Carolina)
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sorry ... my keyboard 'froze' ... please delete previous reply
DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565
Posted:
I'm puzzled by the time stamps on the recent messages. I'm sitting here at 5:10 pm EDT and I'm seeing previous messages from today with timestamps of 9:02 pm and 7:35pm today. Where are you guys?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidW5 on 05/14/2010 2:11 PM
I'm puzzled by the time stamps on the recent messages. I'm sitting here at 5:10 pm EDT and I'm seeing previous messages from today with timestamps of 9:02 pm and 7:35pm today. Where are you guys?

David,

You said you were posting at 5:10 PM but your message shows it was posted at 2:11 PM. (or 3 hrs b/4 you actually typed it!). Maybe the domain is on the west coast and shows the time posted in PST. I'm in AZ and I'm posting at 3:15 PM. We're now on PST, but when the time changes in the Fall we'll be on MST.
DaveF3 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Click on MyAccount and the Manage Profile. Down at the bottom of the screen you'll see a drop down list for the Time Zone. Not sure if it will make a difference in the posts or not. The time stamp may have more to do with where the web server is.

DaveF3 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
The answer for this is really long and may be off topic. If you want, send an email to [email protected] and I'll get back to you as soon as I can.
RickW (Illinois)
Posts: 169
Posted:
As I see it, if I might be so bold to add to this out of hand thread, there is a topic that is worthy of discussion here.

There real discussion should be about the additional fee that management companies are asking for when large projects are undertaken.

In July of 2008, our association signed a new contract with the same management company we had used the previous 2 years. The new contract included a fee for coordination of major projects of 5%. The previous contract did not have this clause. The monthly fee, in the new contract, charged by the management company, increased about 4% per unit.

Our complex consists of 56 townhomes built in 2000 and 2001. I would guess that management companies are more likely to request this percentage fee as the associations age given that more, larger projects become necessary. Our board looked at the contract, considered the monthly increase and compared the fee for large projects compared to the large projects we anticipated doing within the next 2 years. The 5% fee would and has amounted to a very small percentage of our overall budget.

I think it important to remember that if your management company solicits proposals and coordinated the work being done, they do in fact expend time and energy. If association A undertakes a large project, they pay more to the management company than association B who does not have any large projects in play.

To some degree, I feel management companies have found this process a useful tool to spread their costs out, to increase their fees for associations that require more of their time. It makes sense to me, complete sense.

That being said, when we look to renew our contract this summer, we will once again look at the forecast of larger projects that we might begin and what effect it will have on our budget. I would not have any issue in negotiating this percentage fee prior to signing the contract.

In summation, I think this process is a positive. It provides management companies a way to keep their fees aligned with what is happening in each association. It also provides associations with a bargaining tool. We can negotiate a larger % fee and a lower monthly fee if we anticipate few large projects. On the other hand, we can negotiate a lower % fee and larger monthly fee if we do not anticipate large projects.
JoelM1 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 61
Posted:
Rick,

Good points - I agree with you to a certain degree.

My concern is the flat percentage vs. and hourly rate.

I think there can be a case where you have a $100K project
that requires very little administration from the management company
yet they would take $5K - $10K regardles of the time they spend.

I suppose the argument could be made that it balances out because there
could be cases of a $10K project requiring a ton of admin hours from the MC.

I think a more fair approach is a set hourly rate for $10K + non routine projects.

RickW (Illinois)
Posts: 169
Posted:
Joel,

Thats a very valid point. I think it probably depends on each situation. Either way, it gives us, as associations a bargaining tool just as much as it give management companies a bargaining tool.

As an aside....I'm an architect specializing in interior architecture and interior design. We are changing our fee basis...offering each client an hourly rate or a percentage fee...in all honesty, the percentage fee is working out to benefit the client...

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