Opinions on HoA bylaw

AdamS6 (Ohio)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Hi guys,

My neighbor is our HoA president. I just moved in a few weeks ago - overall he's a decent guy so far but...

I have an enclosed trailer. He came to me and told me it was against the agreement, and I checked before I moved in. The terms are vague:

Campers, recreation and house vehicles, trucks, commercially licensed vehicles, boats and vehicles used primarily for business use (other than unsigned automobiles) shall not be permitted unless stored in the garage, or out of sight from _______ Court or adjoining property owners' view.

The wording seems pretty unusual -- "trucks" are specifically restricted but nothing about trailers. I think classifying a trailer as a vehicle is a stretch.

Now, here's the kicker... it does make my driveway less useable and in reality I initially did plan to park it in my driveway but it makes it hard to get in and out easily so I plan to buy a parking spot at a storage facility.

Back to the neighbor, the problem is just that I'm getting harassed by the wife. She's the neighborhood busy body. She busted on us about keeping our normal front "torch" lights on.

Nobody likes to be told what to do. I'd just like to know what you guys think - am I in violation of the agreement?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Adam,

Your trailer could be prohibited under the "recreation and house vehicles". This is a broad statement and probably intentionally meant to be to cover as wide a selection of vehicles as possible. It would be covered under "recreation by being used for hauling any gear for recreation purposes". Therefore, you would be in violation of this agreement.

Since you stated that you were planning to place the trailer in a storage facility anyway, just contact the board (in writing) and let them know that you are making arrangements for a storage facility and request a waiver until mm/dd/yyyy. Of course, granting such a waiver will depend on how long it has been between your fist notice (when your neighbor talked to you) and now.

I would suggest parking the vehicle in the garage, as your documents allow for this, until you find a more suitable place.

Tim

AdamS6 (Ohio)
Posts: 9

Posted:

This is where it becomes so vague.

Since it says "Recreation and House Vehicles" - it makes me think they are trying to prevent RV's, campers, that sort of thing.

The neighbor who's actually the HoA president is the one with the truck parked in his driveway all the time - not to mention a political sign in the yard when the HoA also prohibits all but a certain size for sale sign.

It's a slippery slope in both directions. Who is able to determine what exacly qualifies as recreation. What if I keep the trailer to help my friends and family move, or any other equally ridiculous purpose? It's hard to say "well if you have fun with it, it's not allowed here!".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recreational_vehicle

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Adam,

It's the Board who decides the what is what. You could challenge the decision in a court of law but that wouldn't prevent the Board from adding the word trailers to the guidelines to clarify the intent. Additionally, there may be a resolution or a past decision that wasn't passed on to you clarifying the truck issue. Even if there isn't that just means that the issue of the truck might not have been brought to the attention of the Board. Have you asked your neighbor about it?

Per your posting, there is a provision for you to park the trailer on your property providing it's out of view (ie garage or back yard).

If your new to an HOA, I would suggest that you pick your issues by asking how much is this issue worth to you in time, energy and money (sometimes standing on principle demands a lot). Since you already indicated that you had decided to store the trailer at a storage lot. Therefore, other then the knee jerk reaction everyone experiences when they are being told what can and can't be done being different then what was expected, I would recommend letting this one go. I would also suggest that as time permits and you settle in, start attending your board meetings and get involved in the running of the Association.

Tim

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Adam,

I can tell you that in the majority of HOAs trailers are prohibited from being parked on driveways. Of course that is meaningless regarding the ambiguity of your CCRs. But, if you thoroughly read your CCRs you most likely will read that the BOD has the authority to interpret the community docs. However, if there is a question regarding the meaning of a particular restriction the BOD should have an adopted interpretation which should be passed on to the members. As for his truck being parked on the driveway, perhaps the BOD has also interpreted the meaning of "truck". I wouldn't be afraid to ask if the BOD has adopted interpretations of this restriction; if so, then ask for a copy of the interpretation.

Regarding the political sign, there may be a state law prohibiting the HOA from restricting this type sign. I know some states have adopted such a law -- AZ for one. HOAs must also abide by state laws, ones that a specific to HOAs and also the nonprofit corp statutes. If the BOD seems to be doing something contrary to what is in the community docs there may be a state law addressing the issue that they must abide by. But, when in doubt, don't be afraid to ask!

Since you are so new to HOAs, let me clue you in on one very important aspect of HOA living. In most states there is no State agency that oversees HOAs, meaning there is really no one to address complaints to. If a member has a legitimate complaint they want resolved they have no recourse but to take the HOA to court. This is a very costly venture which most HOA members decide not to embark upon. Of course the board members know this and some will use it to their advantage. The only recourse is to voice your objection at the ballot box or start a petition to recall particular board members (or the whole board).

AdamS6 (Ohio)
Posts: 9

Posted:

I do plan to move it, I'm looking for a barometer on how clear the violation is. I may park it in my driveway from time to time for a day or two and I am just curious to know some other opinions on it.

The truck thing: Well, it is owned by the president - so I'm sure he's aware of it.

I really don't care about the truck, or someone's political sign, or them letting their dogs run around without leashes, etc. I'm not the type of person to get involved in other people's business. The problem is if you let something go, you are really just letting someone walk on you. We all live in glass houses to some degree - some more than others. It seems quite petty to cast stones while being in violation of the same rule and others.

I might just be on the other side of this fence. I'm not sure that the HoA does anything to protect home values - as some others have made the argument it seems to just restrict who is interested in purchasing the home (those for HoA, or those against).

AdamS6 (Ohio)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaryA1 on 05/10/2010 7:05 AM
Adam,

I can tell you that in the majority of HOAs trailers are prohibited from being parked on driveways. Of course that is meaningless regarding the ambiguity of your CCRs. But, if you thoroughly read your CCRs you most likely will read that the BOD has the authority to interpret the community docs. However, if there is a question regarding the meaning of a particular restriction the BOD should have an adopted interpretation which should be passed on to the members. As for his truck being parked on the driveway, perhaps the BOD has also interpreted the meaning of "truck". I wouldn't be afraid to ask if the BOD has adopted interpretations of this restriction; if so, then ask for a copy of the interpretation.

Regarding the political sign, there may be a state law prohibiting the HOA from restricting this type sign. I know some states have adopted such a law -- AZ for one. HOAs must also abide by state laws, ones that a specific to HOAs and also the nonprofit corp statutes. If the BOD seems to be doing something contrary to what is in the community docs there may be a state law addressing the issue that they must abide by. But, when in doubt, don't be afraid to ask!

Since you are so new to HOAs, let me clue you in on one very important aspect of HOA living. In most states there is no State agency that oversees HOAs, meaning there is really no one to address complaints to. If a member has a legitimate complaint they want resolved they have no recourse but to take the HOA to court. This is a very costly venture which most HOA members decide not to embark upon. Of course the board members know this and some will use it to their advantage. The only recourse is to voice your objection at the ballot box or start a petition to recall particular board members (or the whole board).

Thanks Mary,

Well, we are small, 39ish houses. Probably something that doesn't even need an HoA, it's just that we have a front sign and it has to be maintained. Although with dues at $180/yr I would be curious to know what the money is spent on!

Anyway, yeah - I don't even think we have a BoD - I think just a single president person. You may be right about the state law allowing political signs, I'm not really sure. In fact, I don't even want to know. My neighbor agree'd that the provision was dependent on how you interpret it. He told me about quite a few folks that have either been in violation or are currently in violation (although I guess some were 'grandfathered'?? an out building that was built several years ago). It seems like if most people are in violation of 1 rule or another then the rule probably doesn't suit the people being governed by it.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Adam, as others have said, it is likely a matter of interpretation, and most CC&Rs that I've ever seen or read allow the board to make the interpretation and then also indicate that the board's interpretation is final and binding.

Also, it's likely that the board operates on complaint-driven process, meaning that it's likely that someone reported your trailer, which compels the board to respond.

Regarding his truck and political sign, again, "truck" may have been defined and interpreted by your board at some point, and you just may not have that information. Most people who move into our development often only get the original CC&Rs from the seller. We usually have to include or refer the new owners to all the amendments and rules & regulations that have been made over the years. In our case, that includes one for political signs exactly for the reasons stated above.

At any rate, what I'm saying is that, from what I can tell, the board can find your trailer in violation. Regarding every thing else, you may not have all the pieces of paper you need to make any additional determinations.

You might want to ask your neighbor for copies of any amendments, rules, regulations or resolutions that may have been made over the years, so that you can be sure that you won't run afoul of any in the future.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Adam,

In a small community it's so much easier to spot the violations immediately. I once lived in a 49-member HOA and live in one that has 1,702. The smaller HOA was self-managed but my present HOA has a manger to assist the board in carrying out the duties necessary to run the HOA. I would think your HOA has a board of directors not just one person serving as Pres. Many people are of the opinion that their HOA isn't needed because there's only a sign at the entrance or a small common area to maintain. But, if those areas are owned by the HOA or are city/co easements areas designated for maint by the HOA then the HOA must maintain them. In many HOAs there are water retention basins (HOA owned common areas) which also require maintenance and can never be used for any other purpose. Anything that requires to be maintained means money is involved. I can give you a thumbnail sketch of what your assn expenses may be:

Landscaper (to maintain common areas)
Electric
Water
Repair & Maint
Insurance (liability, D&O for board members)
Office Supplies
Postage
Printing
Property Taxes
State & Fed Income Taxes
Newsletter
Legal fees
Bank charges (incl NSF fees)

Add to that a monthly amount to be deposited into a reserve fund.

Alot of your questions may be answered by attending a monthly board meeting. There you may be given a copy of a recent financial statement; or at least you can ask for one. Also you'll be able to meet the board members and witness first-hand what business is conducted each month.

You may also want to do a search for OH HOA statutes. I know there are statutes governing condos, but I'm not sure about single family homes. Also there are most likely statutes governing nonprofit corporations, which I'm sure your HOA is, meaning those laws must also be abided by.

JoanneD1 (Arizona)
Posts: 447

Posted:

I guess I would ask what it is licensed as.....and do you use it commerically? I don't blame your neighbor, no matter what label you put on it. IMO, a camper does not necessarily mean a vehicle. Why don't you try envisioning all the driveways with a "trailer" in them and see what mental image you come up with.

AdamS6 (Ohio)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JoanneD1 on 05/10/2010 1:04 PM
Why don't you try envisioning all the driveways with a "trailer" in them and see what mental image you come up with.

It's licensed personally.

Anyway, the thing about life is that we all have different things we do. What you're saying is pretty ridiculous. Why don't you try envisioning every yard with identical landscaping? I'd say that would be equally egregious. The rationale here is just totally bogus because everyone has a different thing about an agreement that is infringing upon them. Who are you to say that your xyz is less offensive to me than my xyz is to you?

It might help to know about the physical layout. I am pretty close to the cul-de-sac and our street has a single side-street that breaks off before you get to my house, and the driveway extends to the back of the house (the garage doors are not visible to the street). I think there are 7 houses that have visibility into my driveway in normal passing.

Anyway, regardless of the technicals about this, people would freak out if a politician tells you that you can't do xyz - but they let their neighbors do just that. It's quite comical!

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AdamS6 on 05/10/2010 1:13 PM

Anyway, the thing about life is that we all have different things we do. What you're saying is pretty ridiculous. Why don't you try envisioning every yard with identical landscaping? I'd say that would be equally egregious.

And most other people would not, as it would at least be clean, neat and presentable.

For things like RVs and trailers and commercial vehicles, it's all fine and dandy with the people who have smaller, cleaner ones. But the problem is, if you allow one RV, trailer, commercial vehicle, you allow them all. Including the green van with the purple and blue and red advertising bubbles all over it announcing great deals with XYZ cell phone service, or, better yet, the semi-truck cab.

For trailers, if you have a neat, clean one, then you cannot disallow the homemade one with the cardboard sides and the fence-post supports.

And if you have an RV in every driveway, or even 3 or 4 in a row, opps.

Quote:

Posted By AdamS6 on 05/10/2010 1:13 PM
The rationale here is just totally bogus because everyone has a different thing about an agreement that is infringing upon them. Who are you to say that your xyz is less offensive to me than my xyz is to you?

I say that as I agree with the restriction, as soon as I agree to buy the property upon which the deed restrictions run. So if I don't like or don't agree to some of the restrictions, I can go buy a home in a a development that contains the aesthetics with which I DO agree.

In fact, that's exactly what my husband and I did. Some of the HOAs in my area tell you what color your doors and roofs have to be. Some, like you mentioned in your example, require that every frontage look identical. We didn't care for those restrictions, so we purchased in this development, which still has some restrictions, but they are all restrictions we can live with. And the ones we DIDN'T agree with? Well, we managed to work with some of our neighbors over the years to change them.

Quote:

Posted By AdamS6 on 05/10/2010 1:13 PM
Anyway, regardless of the technicals about this, people would freak out if a politician tells you that you can't do xyz - but they let their neighbors do just that. It's quite comical!

You premise works only for people who are naive and low-information voters. What on earth do you think we hire our legislators to do? They make laws and ordinances and all sorts of things that "tell" us what we can and can't do. So, with all due respect, that's pretty silly statement. Perhaps you didn't think that through all the way before you typed it?

And, again, my "neighbors" don't tell me what I can't do; the controlling documents that are tied to my land do. And I voluntarily agreed to abide by them when I took title to my home.

The proper way to deal with the restrictions you don't like is to work within the scope of the controlling documents and change them.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Mary, no HOA statutes in Ohio just for condo's, a bill (H.B.187) that would enact HOA statutes that mostly mirror the condo statutes has passed the State Senate and is in the House of Representatives. As you can imagine the anti HOA zealots are going crazy including the banking industry because it allows a "super lien" something which the condo statute unfortunately does not have.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

AdamS6 (Ohio)
Posts: 9

Posted:

I don't think many would buy a house if any defining feature of the homes were identical. Maybe mailboxes, same color shingles, something like that... but the argument of "well what if everyone else did it" it's one of the first that comes to mind to the sheep, but we aren't clones and I don't think anyone wants to live in a neighborhood without identity.

If you're worried about what someone else is doing and it's not outrageous then you need something else to do with your time. Who determines outrageous? I think this is the key to the whole problem. You say my argument is silly however politicians act on behalf of their constituents (or maybe they don't) and then they draft bills. Even if and when they become laws, a separate body is in charge of interpretation and enforcement. It's not like a politician can tell you what to do. A judge, sure --- maybe you didn't think it through.

As far as not moving into a community - lookup the definition for Recreational Vehicle. I couldn't find a definition for house vehicle - either way, the documents aren't very clear regarding all of this.

You're another one that hides behind a piece of paper. Can you not see how spineless that is in the first place? Living your life based upon what a piece of paper says is silly. Lots of the neighborhood would disband the HoA if anyone cared enough.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AdamS6 on 05/10/2010 2:48 PM
You're another one that hides behind a piece of paper. Can you not see how spineless that is in the first place? Living your life based upon what a piece of paper says is silly. Lots of the neighborhood would disband the HoA if anyone cared enough.

What is worse following a piece of paper you signed (a legal and social contract) or thinking you are somehow exempt because you don't like something or think it shouldn't apply to you? As to disbanding this is a re-post of my reply to another Adam that wanted out of his HOA:

OK, you want to get rid of the HOA so you start with the Declarations; somewhere will be a clause on how to disband the HOA. It usually requires between 95 & 100 percent of the members voting yes. Then you have to get the city or county or someone to take over the cost and maintenance of any common areas, retention ponds, playgrounds, pools etc. Easy peasy. Except most towns force builders to form HOA’s as a condition to build because the tax base generally doesn’t have the money to fund these things. Yes property taxes are high but the real revenue for a city comes from industrial or business property not homes. You also have to dissolve the corporation with the State and more than likely approval of the mortgage holders. One word of warning if you decide to try and shortcut the process by letting the corporation die without disposing of the common areas and don’t maintain insurance on them and someone is injured or killed then everyone owning a lot can be sued jointly and severalty for damages. Meaning while someone who has no or little equity in their home and little of value will only have to pay a little those with deep pockets will pay a lot.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AdamS6 on 05/10/2010 2:48 PM
I don't think many would buy a house if any defining feature of the homes were identical. Maybe mailboxes, same color shingles, something like that... but the argument of "well what if everyone else did it" it's one of the first that comes to mind to the sheep, but we aren't clones and I don't think anyone wants to live in a neighborhood without identity.

If you're worried about what someone else is doing and it's not outrageous then you need something else to do with your time. Who determines outrageous? I think this is the key to the whole problem. You say my argument is silly however politicians act on behalf of their constituents (or maybe they don't) and then they draft bills. Even if and when they become laws, a separate body is in charge of interpretation and enforcement. It's not like a politician can tell you what to do. A judge, sure --- maybe you didn't think it through.

As far as not moving into a community - lookup the definition for Recreational Vehicle. I couldn't find a definition for house vehicle - either way, the documents aren't very clear regarding all of this.

You're another one that hides behind a piece of paper. Can you not see how spineless that is in the first place? Living your life based upon what a piece of paper says is silly. Lots of the neighborhood would disband the HoA if anyone cared enough.

Sorry, all of your "arguments" are off base. You decided to purchase in the community that had restrictions tied to the deed of your house. Someone has to enforce them. Too bad you don't like that people do want to enforce them.

And you would be wholly wrong about your statement regarding not many people buying into homes if "defining" features were identical. More and more developments are EXACTLY that. Patio homes come to mind. And condos. And townhomes. Rarely do they vary in frontage appearance.

Your argument re: politicians ARE silly in comparison to HOA deed restrictions, and you clearly continue to fail to think it through.

Politicians make laws that tell people what they can and can't do. Period. Now you may or may not agree with those laws. The politician can't please all of the people all of the time, but if the majority doesn't like the laws for which an individual politician sponsors, writes, or votes on, then the majority will vote him/her out of office.

If the majority of residents in an HOA don't like certain restrictions, they can, following the prescribed manner in their controlling documents, amend that restriction.

I guess policemen who give tickets or arrest people violating laws or ordinances are "hiding" behind "pieces of paper," and the zoning officers that give fines, or the social workers who remove children from homes. . . etc etc.

Your arguments are weak. And you know it. Give it up.

You bought into the development with the restrictions. You can either work to change the restrictions you don't like or move out. But know that if you violate them, you have to be prepared to deal with the consequences.

It has nothing to do with your neighbors telling you what you can't do. It's the documents you agreed to . . .

AdamS6 (Ohio)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GlenL on 05/10/2010 3:07 PM

Posted By AdamS6 on 05/10/2010 2:48 PM
You're another one that hides behind a piece of paper. Can you not see how spineless that is in the first place? Living your life based upon what a piece of paper says is silly. Lots of the neighborhood would disband the HoA if anyone cared enough.

What is worse following a piece of paper you signed (a legal and social contract) or thinking you are somehow exempt because you don't like something or think it shouldn't apply to you? As to disbanding this is a re-post of my reply to another Adam that wanted out of his HOA:

OK, you want to get rid of the HOA so you start with the Declarations; somewhere will be a clause on how to disband the HOA. It usually requires between 95 & 100 percent of the members voting yes. Then you have to get the city or county or someone to take over the cost and maintenance of any common areas, retention ponds, playgrounds, pools etc. Easy peasy. Except most towns force builders to form HOA’s as a condition to build because the tax base generally doesn’t have the money to fund these things. Yes property taxes are high but the real revenue for a city comes from industrial or business property not homes. You also have to dissolve the corporation with the State and more than likely approval of the mortgage holders. One word of warning if you decide to try and shortcut the process by letting the corporation die without disposing of the common areas and don’t maintain insurance on them and someone is injured or killed then everyone owning a lot can be sued jointly and severalty for damages. Meaning while someone who has no or little equity in their home and little of value will only have to pay a little those with deep pockets will pay a lot.

My issue is not with the document, it's questionable that the wording of the document in and of itself would prohibit my trailer. I suppose it would depend on local precedent as well as the judges opinion. My initial reading of the document lead me to believe they don't want RV's or campers, and I don't have one. I make computer software, and it's fairly amateur to create a "blacklist" if you want to exclude more than you include - because you should just make a white list. This is a blacklist and it's not on the list (so he'll just change the list -- and I'm still screwed, so it doesn't matter what the original paper said because it is whatever he wants it to be). It's the fact that the interpretation is up to one individual, and that apparently they are free to change the rules as they see fit. Does it make sense that you sign the document at closing and then a couple weeks later you learn that the rules as presented to you aren't actually the real rules?

AdamS6 (Ohio)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MicheleD on 05/10/2010 3:08 PM

Posted By AdamS6 on 05/10/2010 2:48 PM
I don't think many would buy a house if any defining feature of the homes were identical. Maybe mailboxes, same color shingles, something like that... but the argument of "well what if everyone else did it" it's one of the first that comes to mind to the sheep, but we aren't clones and I don't think anyone wants to live in a neighborhood without identity.

If you're worried about what someone else is doing and it's not outrageous then you need something else to do with your time. Who determines outrageous? I think this is the key to the whole problem. You say my argument is silly however politicians act on behalf of their constituents (or maybe they don't) and then they draft bills. Even if and when they become laws, a separate body is in charge of interpretation and enforcement. It's not like a politician can tell you what to do. A judge, sure --- maybe you didn't think it through.

As far as not moving into a community - lookup the definition for Recreational Vehicle. I couldn't find a definition for house vehicle - either way, the documents aren't very clear regarding all of this.

You're another one that hides behind a piece of paper. Can you not see how spineless that is in the first place? Living your life based upon what a piece of paper says is silly. Lots of the neighborhood would disband the HoA if anyone cared enough.

Sorry, all of your "arguments" are off base. You decided to purchase in the community that had restrictions tied to the deed of your house. Someone has to enforce them. Too bad you don't like that people do want to enforce them.

And you would be wholly wrong about your statement regarding not many people buying into homes if "defining" features were identical. More and more developments are EXACTLY that. Patio homes come to mind. And condos. And townhomes. Rarely do they vary in frontage appearance.

Your argument re: politicians ARE silly in comparison to HOA deed restrictions, and you clearly continue to fail to think it through.

Politicians make laws that tell people what they can and can't do. Period. Now you may or may not agree with those laws. The politician can't please all of the people all of the time, but if the majority doesn't like the laws for which an individual politician sponsors, writes, or votes on, then the majority will vote him/her out of office.

If the majority of residents in an HOA don't like certain restrictions, they can, following the prescribed manner in their controlling documents, amend that restriction.

I guess policemen who give tickets or arrest people violating laws or ordinances are "hiding" behind "pieces of paper," and the zoning officers that give fines, or the social workers who remove children from homes. . . etc etc.

Your arguments are weak. And you know it. Give it up.

You bought into the development with the restrictions. You can either work to change the restrictions you don't like or move out. But know that if you violate them, you have to be prepared to deal with the consequences.

It has nothing to do with your neighbors telling you what you can't do. It's the documents you agreed to . . .

I just realized you have 4000 posts on a forum dedicated to home owners associations.

I'm out of here, and I have pity on your soul.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Ooooooo, Adam,

As of now, the direction that your arguement has gone must now stop. This is supposed to be helpful to you but you seem to think that information posted in the beginning is not what you want to hear.

Living in a HOA is governed by those documents that you signed when you moved into the HOA. They are interpreted by the governing Board, the same as courts of law interpret them for us normal citizens. You can argue that you don't like what the President is telling you. Chances are, he is correct. My covenants read the same as yours do and in my opinion, your covered trailer is not allowed to be parked in your driveway. Sorry!

Either way tho, it is counterproductive to post in a negative manner against other posters. It will be removed by the monitor which will give you no help in the end so if you want good opinions from us, that is what we are here for. ;)

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AdamS6 on 05/10/2010 3:19 PM

I just realized you have 4000 posts on a forum dedicated to home owners associations.

I'm out of here, and I have pity on your soul.

Really? Pity on me? and you don't even know me. and yet, you are the one in violation. go figure.

And you are really out of here not because you don't like me, personally, (though you probably don't, most children don't like it when a grown up tells them things they don't like to hear), you more than likely don't like what I'm saying.

Oh, and to be specific, this is NOT a forum dedicated to home owners associations. It is a forum dedicated to community association LEADERS, usually community association BOARD members.

If you simply wanted an HOA forum there are plenty out there with people like you who don't like to follow rules and like to rant and rave against them.

I'm quite sure you'll be much happier there.

DaveW3 (Missouri)
Posts: 9

Posted:

The trailer isn't allowed as in most HOA's. Get a storage space and move on.

JoanneD1 (Arizona)
Posts: 447

Posted:

Adam, HOA living is not suited to all people and especially to those who feel that their agendas overide CC&R's and governing documents. In today's world, put your energies to better use.