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JoeM7 (New Jersey)
Posts: 7
Posted:
I was just elected treasurer to my HOA Board in March. I was unable to be as actively involved as I wanted to because I am a tax accountant. However, since tax season has ended I have begun to unearth some disturbing situations.

Our condo's were built in the late 70's, and in the early part of 00's the board voted to replace some roofs and do some major repairs. From around 2002 through 2005 the board spent roughly $30,000 a month on repairs, and the reserve fund stayed somewhere between $250,000 to $300,000. However, in April of 2006 a board member decided to do some more repairs without the authorization of the Board, and spent roughly $30,000 a month on roofs (The reason I know it is roofs is I have the canceled checks). The only problem though was our capital reserve went from $250,000 to $2,000 by May of 2007. What appears to have happened was the president and the treasurer authorized the checks for these repairs, but never told anyone else. Furthermore, I went to go pull the permits, and there are no permits at all. I do have all the paper work for the funds removed from the capital account, the pool bills, and the water bills.

The reason the rest of the board found out about the drainage of the capital reserve fund was our water was about to be shut off in September of 2007 because we owed the water company $40,000 from 3 months of unpaid bills, while at the same time we paid to keep the pool open during the Summer of 2007.

At that point in time he and the treasurer resigned from the Board, but the same individual ran again for the Board in 2009, and was elected. Dont ask me how. Since then, our captial reserve is only about 20,000, and there is no plan to repay the funds. Furthermore, 108 of 270 units are late in their condo dues, and the Board has never enforced the collection. It has been estimated that this amount is around $350,000 give or take.

Our community is at a crossroad, and we can go in one of two directions. In order to go in the right direction, this individual needs to be removed from the board, and I would like to press charges against him for not fulling his fiduciary responsibilities. Is this possible, and if so what steps do I need to take?

Any help would be very much appreciated.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Joe, if you can gather enough support you can call a special meeting and remove him from the BOD. If you think you can prove malfeasance then either you individually, a group of residents or the BOD can sue him. If you have D & O insurance it will pay to defend him unless you can prove negligence. But don't forget the rest of the BOD they are at least as culpable for ignoring the delinquencies.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
AdamK (Arizona)
Posts: 23
Posted:
I'm not sure about New Jersey, but Arizona state legislature have Statutes that allow you to file a complaint and an admisitrator from the legal department will read the petition and call in both parties to determine what needs to happen. The only fee is a filing fee.

how do you know that the board did not approve the remaining repairs? if the treasurer and president approved the funds, and there were only 3 people on the board, then the treasururer, president, and person that wanted the repairs who was on the board agreed then there is your majority to pass a motion. even if there were 5 members on the board, those 3 would still be the majority and the repairs could have been agreed to have been done. Who else did the president / tresurer have to tell? they act on behalf of the association. it would have been nice to inform the rest of the association of the repairs as they benifitted everyone but if they didn't oh well.

there seems to be a lot of different things going on that you are lumping into 1 single problem.

i don't see what the water being shut off and having a pool open have to do with one another.

you said your reserve fund was 2,000 in 2007 and now 20,000 in 2010 so it is slowly being replenished from using the funds on association maintenance.

You say yourself that you've already assigned blame and you know what actions you want to take. So really, go ahead. I don't believe that there really is anything that was done wrong. maybe a lack of communication between the board and association, but it's not like they spent the money on a new car for private use, or a vacation, and the fuds are being replenished.

I would try and find out what the board is planning on doing about the 108 late payments. how late are they? are they foreclosed units? we just wrote off as uncollectable debt a few grand for our HOA as are a lot of others since people are just up and leaving. But $350,000?? that's roughly $3240 per unit if each owes equally. Just seems like a high number but our HOA is for detached homes not a condo so i'm assuming your dues are higher to begin with.

good luck though
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Joe,
As usual Glen is on the money. Study what he says and give it some serious thought. You need some help, and you need some solid support. A lot of this can fade to dust for all kinds of reason but you certainly have the background that would command attention, I don't know how much access you have to the books or how much any of this stuff is leaking out but give some serious thought to getting 4 or five neighbors together and having a sit down. Discuss what you know, and let them discuss what happens next.
You could ask this group to act independently but I would look more toward planning how to get as much solid evidence as you all can. Do some courthouse searches on court cses using the names of the individuals, it's all public information. See if you can find out what caused this problem if that is what is is. Maybe all bad record keeping, may be bad management. You all will have to understand this happened on your watch just as it did on every owners in the association. Just take your time and be very prepared and at some point consider going to a public town hall to discuss the issues. If you get this far you will need an attorney. In the meantime get some more trusted people involved with your management. Do you have a management company? You as a Board member and treasuer should be able to get some bank records of the times in question. But as I and Glen have said don't be foolish and don't do anything dumb. The thought of actually meeting the suspected people head on has to be discussed. Right now, you are trying to get the books in order that is your job.............Start keeping records of everything and make sure everyone is doing this for the association.....very important, no personal agenda. We don't do legal advice, we give opinions..........that's it.
JoeM7 (New Jersey)
Posts: 7
Posted:
To answer the poster's question above. There are 5 board members, during 2006 when the capital reserve was reduced from $250,000 to $2,000, only 2 of the board members, the president and the treasurer, knew that $30,000 a month was being spent on "repairing roofs". Also, the minutes during that time period do not show that the board approved any job to replace roofs. I have the canceled checks, they were made out to a roofing company, and signed by the same two people each time. However, there are no permits on record with the township that we replaced roofs or for any major project period. The other board members never asked about the financial health of the community, until the Fall of 2007 when one of the board members happened to be in the office when the mail was delivered, and saw the notice from the water company.

The reason that keeping the pool open and not paying the water bill during the same time period is related because it shows a lack of fudicary responsibility. Which is more important, keeping the pool open or paying the water bill? There was never a plan to replace the funds taken from the capital reserve. Even though our capital reserve fund has increased from $2,000 to $20,000 over roughly two years, that is only represents 7.2% of what was taken. Furthermore, the last reserve study was prepared in 2003, and shows we are suppose to place roughly $85,000 a year in the capital reserve. Therefore, there should be roughly $500,000 in our capital reserve right now.

I just found this court case from my state, which is very similar to the situation my condo association is in.

. In January 2007, the New Jersey Superior Court, in Ebert v. Briar Knoll Condominium Association (N.J. Super. A.D. 2007), addressed reserve account funding issues. The unit owner alleged that the condominium association did not maintain adequate reserves for the maintenance of the condominium’s common areas. The association had a reserve study prepared in 2000 which provided the amount that the association should maintain in its reserve, but the association’s reserve contained less than one-third of the amount recommended. The Superior Court agreed with the unit owner, holding that the association had failed to provide adequate reserves for the maintenance of the common elements. The Superior Court added that the association breached its fiduciary duty “to preserve and protect the common elements and areas for the benefit of all of its members.”
DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482
Posted:
You say that you want to prosecute.

So, the Membership needs to elect a Board which will pass a motion to hire a lawyer to sue the former Board Member(s). The lawyer will figure out whether the HOA has a case or not and how much money that the HOA should sue for.

If the HOA isn't willing to do that, you can file your own lawsuit on your own dime.

I tend to agree with others here; you don't have a slam dunk case. If the guy spent the money on hookers instead of roofing, you'd have a better case.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Joe,

Are people elected to the Board and the officers appointed by the board or are people elected to specific offices?

If it is in the control of the Board, the Board should not assign any duties to this individual (don't assign him to an office). If he has to be signed to an office make it one that does not deal with money or authorizes expenditures.

Propose a resolution that no expenditures other then utility bills can be made without prior approval from the board. Tell the board what you told us here as the reasoning for this resolution. This will at least put the person on notice that he is being watched.

Tim
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
JoeM, Are you sure the roofs were replaced? If there is no permit and the other Board members did not know that roofs were being replaced the place to start is confirming the roofs were replaced and there were not kickbacks. If it is just stupidity on the part of the two Board members it may be difficult to recoup any funds from them. In the case you posted the comments are obvious, but there was nothing about an award for funds expended which were not approved by the Board.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Joe,
How many units in this condo?
Whats a price range?
Do you employ a management co or have you employed one.
How many board members?
Are your assessments apportioned?
Can't you actually hire someone to do an inspection to see if roof work was done recently (in the past five years)

Isn't there any owner that would immediately when the work was done. You live there full time, you watch out and know what is going on.

Do you live on the Jersey shore? Is it condo heaven or are condos scarce where you live.

Finally, tell us how you think there can be such an expenditure of funds over such a short period of time, do you have open BOD meetings, do you publish minutes/ Got a website, and excellent tool to establish historical records with pictures and maybe a blog.

Where have you been in all those years. Got any personal agendas? There are a lot of questions you are going to have to answer if you are going to be credible, which means you have to know a lot of stuff and have a lot of support and a reasonable position.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Here's another thing that is concerning me. We know this is a fve member board. I espect five member board might go up to maybe 120 units, which is a lot for five member BOD. My condo is 65 units with a five member board. We only have 6 or seven full time residents. There is no way workman could be putting on roofs without anyone paying attention to it. Thats just too big of a job. Joe hasn't said the roof work was not done, he just said they paid to have it done. It seems a simple matter to find out if the work has been done. Go up on the roof and look. Roofs could be flat roofs, or shingled roofs or maybe combo of both, a flat roof or a shingled roof creates lots of construction trash, noise, dirt, many workmen. If you lived in a complex of 120 condos you would notice and if your roof was not being done you would want to know why. This whole thing is getting messier and messier.
JoeM7 (New Jersey)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Responding to the comment above. I am 27 years old, and completed a Masters in Taxation the Summer of 2008 (Also, I have a B.S. in accounting and finance), possibly the worst time to graduate college in all of history. As a result of not being able to find a job I moved in with my mom the Fall of 2008. My mom moved into the condo in 2005.

This complex is in the suburbs of Philadelphia, and is in a "lower middle class" of South Jersey. Most families in this area have a combined income of $40,000 to $60,000 a year. If you go 1 mile down the street there is the police station and fire company. We are located in a great location because the property taxes are about $3,000 compared to $6,000 to $8,000 a mile or two down the street, and the school system is just as good.

There are a total of 280 units in the complex, in which all of them are owned, but only about 250 are currently occupied. The empty units are from owners who can not find tenants. The average cost of the unit is $125,000. In fact, my neighbor just sold hers for $118,500 in just 3 days. Property went up for sale on a Wednesday and was sold on a Sunday. She asked $122,500, the buyer countered at $115,00, and they settled at $118,500.

The Board is made up of 5 people, they can be either owners or renters (I do not agree with the idea of a renter on the board because they should not be able to make financial decisions for investors). Each term is 2 years, and there is no limit on the amount of times you can run. However, the Board members themselves vote on the positions, president, V.P., Treasurer, Secretary, and then the last position is just member at large. The problem with the board is that it is always split, there has hardly ever been a unified philosophy.

There is a weekly Board meeting every Wednesday for board members only, and there is one meeting a month open to the residents. At the monthly meeting we discuss the decisions that were made during the weekly, and make all of our votes public knowledge.

There is no management company because some of the residents feel they would steal from us, but the people who are making these comments are the ones that I believe are on the Board and have already stolen from us. Basically, they do not want to give up their power positions.

We recently hired a new maintenance supervisor who is friends with both the president who just resigned, and is the president of his condo association at the Jersey Shore. He just oversaw a 7 year renovation project, very similar to the one we need now. He use to own his own contracting business, and did a lot of work with local governments, but is now retired, and came to work for us as a favor. Our old president and 2 other board members checked out to see if the 7 year renovation project was true, and they were able to pull permits, as well as look at their financial statements and invoices. Also, my father use to own a hardware supply company, and my grandfather owned a construction company. I grew up in that environment, and I can vouch that this maintenance supervisor is very knowledgeable about building and repairing buildings.

The "roofs" that were supposedly replaced were inspected by the new maintenance supervisor, and he has claimed they were done half ass, and come to find out the reason there were not permits filed is because the contractor they hired does not have insurance.

The reason I got involved is because my mom works at the county courthouse, and one day last year, during the Spring of 2009, noticed a judgment against our neighbor for unpaid condo fees. She became curious, and wanted to see how many people were not paying their fees, and found that around 90 units were at least 60 days past due (that number has grown to 107 over the last year) all of these judgments against people in our condo development, but the lawyer was never doing anything about it. This intrigued me to find out why we were not collecting fees, and at the same time I noticed our landscaping went to shit. I went to the office, and requested to look at the financial documents, and cited the code section that allows home owners to have access to the financial documents at their request within a reasonable time period. Well, they refused to let me see them. A week later the former president came to my home, and asked for my help. He knew about my education background, and filled me in on the cash flow problems that developed once our capital reserve fund was depleted. However, he did not have the accounting background to know what to look for. A few days later he brought me into the office to look at the accounting system, it is a complete mess to say the least. There are quite a few places were GAAP has been completely ignored, and in our last audited financial statements have pointed this out. The audited financial statements also discussed a reserve study was last completed in 2003, and that roughly $85,000 a year was needed to be placed into a reserve fund for about the next 15 to 20 years. In April of 2006, there was roughly $250,000 in the capital reserve, so it appears the Board was following the directions on the reserve study. However, there was a significant increase in people who stopped paying their condo fees around the same time period. Since the end of 2007 we barley break even each month. The president that asked me to run resigned last week because he was tired off the board fighting amongst themselves, playing little games against each other, while the complex is falling apart. However, he has promised to help me in any way possible, he just does not want the headaches. Thus far he was been quite helpful in many areas.

What I would like to do is the following:

In our next open meeting, I plan on telling the residents our financial state, and that we can go in one of two directions, and it is up to yall. If we continue to fight over little shit, then within a year or two, our mortgages will be worth more than the value of our homes. Basically, my goal is to scare them shit less.

1. Get rid of the board member who drained our capital reserve fund, and has basically lead us down a road of reckless spending, most likely giving contracts to his finds, and receiving kickbacks. With the evidence I have, and with the precedent of the recent court case, I will give him the chance to quietly resign and sign documents stating he, his wife, any family member, or any tenant in the units he owns will never be allowed to run for the board. If he says no, then I will present what I have found at the next open meeting, and all I need is 60% of the occupied residents to sign a petition to remove him. At this point in time, I want to avoid court because I want to move in a new direction, and I do not want a long dragged out court case, not to mention it will divide the community at a time when we need to unite. This individual has been the condo's main problem for years, and for some reason the residents just do not see it, and we can not move forward until he is removed.

2. I plan on sending out letters to every person that owes us condo fees, and I will be willing to settle their account for 65% to 80% of the balance depending on how much they owe. The reason for this is (1) we need the cash (2) it avoids a long drawn out court process, not to mention legal fees. The people that do not settle, I plan on filling out the legal documents myself to take them to either small claims or DC depending on the amount they owe. If they do not show up, then I will pay for an attorney to find either garnish their wages, take the cash out of the equity in their condo, or foreclose on their property. Out of the $350,000 that is owed, I am hoping to receive $150,000 over the next year to at least have something in the capital reserve.

3. I have already talked to the maintenance supervisor, and he will be doing an assessment of the entire complex to see what building need work, and how much we will need. Once we know how much is needed, a 1, 3, 5, 7, and 10 year goal/plans will be developed. The units that are in the worst shape are worked on first, and so on.

4. I plan on blowing up the current accounting system, and create a new one ( I have created many accounting systems for small businesses over the years). I will carry over our cash balances in our bank accounts, the amount of our account receivables/condo fees owed, any current liabilities (at this time we dont have any major debt, just monthly bills). We do not have any assets that are worth carrying over because they are fully depreciated, hence their useful life is over. Obviously, there will be negative assets, and I will offset it with a negative fund balance.

5. The capital reserve will need to be built back up. Therefore, I will either have to find ways to cut costs, or issue a special assessment instead of raising condo fees. For example, lets say we pass a $500 special assessment, I understand times are tight; therefore, the residents will have a few options on how they want to pay (1) upfront (2) quarterly payments (3) prorated over their current condo fees. I do not want to have to even think of trying to get a loan because we barely break even each month right now, let alone add on the pressure of a loan, and the consequences if we defaulted.

This is new territory for me, but I do have former board members who have been providing some helpful advice. I am hoping that I can bring out some residents that want to turn this place around instead of the "band aid" philosophy that has been used the majority of the time, except for the early to middle part of this decade when the Board was slowly repairing the buildings and building up the capital reserve.

For those that were able to read this entire post, and would like to play devil's advocate, feel free, I need all the help I can get at this point in time. If anyone has been in a similar position, and would like to share their experience, it would be much appreciated.
JoeM7 (New Jersey)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 05/04/2010 6:44 PM
Here's another thing that is concerning me. We know this is a fve member board. I espect five member board might go up to maybe 120 units, which is a lot for five member BOD. My condo is 65 units with a five member board. We only have 6 or seven full time residents. There is no way workman could be putting on roofs without anyone paying attention to it. Thats just too big of a job. Joe hasn't said the roof work was not done, he just said they paid to have it done. It seems a simple matter to find out if the work has been done. Go up on the roof and look. Roofs could be flat roofs, or shingled roofs or maybe combo of both, a flat roof or a shingled roof creates lots of construction trash, noise, dirt, many workmen. If you lived in a complex of 120 condos you would notice and if your roof was not being done you would want to know why. This whole thing is getting messier and messier.

Our complex is broken into two parts, separated by a lake. The work was done on the other side, and it is impossible to know what is going over there, unless you go out and drive by. Also, I was not here when this work was supposed to have been completed. The problem I am having is the amount of resistance from the new president (I am the treasurer and he has yet to add me to our bank accounts, gave me fake username and passwords to log online, luckily one of the current board members gave me the log on info) who was the president at the time this matter occurred. His excuse is that it was too long ago to remember which units had their roofs replaced. I have pulled the invoices to see if they at least put the unit numbers on the bills, and they did not. I was able to get all of the paperwork from the president who just resigned, the day he resigned he gave me all of the boxes that contained all of the paper trail from the beginning of 2000.

As I mentioned before, three other board members did not even know this roofing job was going on until our water was almost shut off, and they realized he drained all of our capital reserves. Again, there are were no permits filed with our township. What I need to do is contact the roofing company to see if it even exists. If it does, then maybe I could catch a break and the people who worked on the roofs are still there, and remember which ones they worked on. I would not be surprised if he or a friend created a fake company, and just transferred all of the cash from our accounts to his fake company.

The main problem that I have seen is that no one has the time to run this place the way it needs to be due to that everyone has a full time job. To make matters worse the president has made sure that the office and accounting system is such a mess that anyone that tries to investigate just gives up because nothing makes sense. Over the years, he has made sure that he has two other people on the board that are "His People" so he has control. Also, he has instilled so much fear of a management company that when it is brought up you would think you were the Antichrist.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Adam,

FYI, the Office of Admin Hearings is no longer adjudicating HOA complaints. This procedure was ruled unconstitutional over a year ago. Now, AZ HOA members have no state agency to complain to
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Joe have you looked into hiring an attorney who specializes in collections for the delinquent HOA. We use one and he collects all his fees from the delinquent party instead of the HOA paying him. Also in OH once the condo goes into foreclosure we can ask the court to appoint a receiver to collect rental fees from the person while they are still in the unit.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482
Posted:
Thank God that Joe doesn't have a paying job because he's got a multi-year, fulltime set of tasks in front of him.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Joe - your numbered steps are admirable, but will take motions for all the actions you want to implement.

Re: #2 The board cannot make "deals" with homeowners to pay one rate and other homeowners to pay different rates. The board can motion to place liens on units that are in arrearage, but you will need a policy and procedure guideline to do this, unless it states in your documents what steps the board can take to collect unpaid dues.

Are you saying you can find NO motions to spend funds to repair roofs??
Look in the past minutes or ask former board members. In any case, the allegatins against the one board member are quite serious. Be careful that you have all the facts straight. Roogs have 20 - 25 year life. the board should start saving now to meet that expenditure when it comes due.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Joe,

You wrote:

"2. I plan on sending out letters to every person that owes us condo fees, and I will be willing to settle their account for 65% to 80% of the balance depending on how much they owe. The reason for this is (1) we need the cash (2) it avoids a long drawn out court process, not to mention legal fees. The people that do not settle, I plan on filling out the legal documents myself to take them to either small claims or DC depending on the amount they owe. If they do not show up, then I will pay for an attorney to find either garnish their wages, take the cash out of the equity in their condo, or foreclose on their property. Out of the $350,000 that is owed, I am hoping to receive $150,000 over the next year to at least have something in the capital reserve.

First of all, I certainly hope you have the full approval of the board to "settle" these delinquent accounts.

Secondly, I doubt whether you have the authority to waive any of the delinquent assessments; only late fees, collection costs and/or attorneys fees can be waived. I'm sure your CCRs state that assessments are charged equally to each member of the assn. I've never heard of CCRs that allow assessments to be waived for any reason. I know your intentions are good; however you just cannot do something that is in violation of your gov. docs. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that your fellow board members are not more knowledgeable than you are either -- this is not uncommon at all. If in doubt, please don't hesitate to contact a good HOA attorney.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Joe,
I am sure you have thought of this but if not. it is something to consider. You are looking at documents from 2000. I suspect that year there was a healthy reserve and your association was perking along. It the ten years, lots has happened. Somewhere around 3 or four years ago things turned sour in your estimation and I don't have any reason to think otherwise. So lets say, you go back through the documents and see something not right in 2005. Now, how many Board members have been on that board since that time? Has to be around 15 I guess and maybe some have served twice over that time frome. So, it is likely some of those people are still living there and may even be friends and certainly neighbors. You of course realize the documents you have are not the complete records. If you go to court you will have to request all the records. All this means many people may be required to produce documents.

Point to all this is: this is not going to be you and this adversary going toe to toe, it will mean lot's more than that. HOA boards sometimes (many times), go along to get a long, for many reasons. I am sure you can see the picture developing I am trying to paint. One of the first things you will have to do is(if covered in documents) is to request that you view all documents and you are going to have to confront the president, (because this will probably do it for sure) Immediaely all kinds of past and maybe even Board members are involved. Some of these people could well be your supporters, I don't know.

Just saying you better think of all this long and hard. I would not even offer any opinion. Can you do all this and keep the lid on? Another reason to have a good HOA lawyer.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Joe,
Dont listen to the naysayers. Go ahead and push your agenda. You may have to make some compromises along the way, but at least you will be doing something. Seems only a select few are making decisions and they may be bad decisions. Don't worry about the past bad decisions, they don't matter. Even if they were receiving kickbacks, you'll never prove it. Start with today's finances, and look into the future.

Only way things will change is if you get involved.

PS. As for the new roofs? Go up and look, or start talking to other residents. Sometimes the best route is the most direct.
DonN (Michigan)
Posts: 357
Posted:
JoeM7

Don't assume you have all the answers. But you certainly have sufficient information from which to make reasonable inquiries. Assemble the financial transactions (accounting, canceled checks, etc.) and the board meeting minutes that should have authorized the transactions. Many answers should surface.

Then review the findings and decide whether or not to seek a forensic audit.

It may be difficult to determine damages. If the repairs conducted were needed, then the owners received value for any unauthorized expenditures.

The matter should immediately be reported to the association's insurance provider in writing.

VivianV (New Jersey)
Posts: 2
Posted:
JoeM7,
I was just made aware of the outrageous assessment ($800) a month. My son owns one of the 2 bedroom units and is in fear of not getting what he owes on his mortgage because of all of the association deceit. I live out of state and cannot attend any of the meetings. My son works over 1.5 hours away and usually cannot make the meetings. Please let me know the latest with the Board Members. My son has been in touch with Mr. Berger, an attorney in town who owns about 40 units and has told him that there is talk of converting this complex into low income housing. He is selling his units for $110,000.00 each. My son has renovated the entire unit with wood floors, new bathrooms, etc. and should be receiving no less than $165,000 - $175,000. However, with all of this going on he may not even get the $140,000 that he currently owes. Again, please keep your posts going so I can keep up with what he going on with this terrible situation. My direct email is: [email protected]
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Vivian,
I appreciate your concern and understand your personal connection. Can I ask if your son and Joe have ever sat down and discussed this. Joe is taking a load on here, he needs the support of all interested Homeowners, even those that are too busy to get involved. I am glad you pasted your e-mail, and maybe Joe will get in touch. Can I suggest that your son get in touch with Joe?
VivianV (New Jersey)
Posts: 2
Posted:
Thanks for the prompt reply. I have passed this on to my son and he is also taking an active role in getting involved in this situation. Thank you....
JoeM7 (New Jersey)
Posts: 7
Posted:
I know that it has been a few years since I last posted on this topic, and I will explain why I stopped posting and what has occurred since then.

1. Roughly, a week or two after my last post I was "blackballed" by the Board, and about 2 to 3 weeks later I resigned.

2. At the monthly Condo meeting for May of 2010 between the Board and the residents I brought all of my evidence that proved that a few current Board members, one in particular (Has been on the Board since the 70's), breached his fiduciary responsibility by making a series of financial transactions for roughly 1 year that can be defined as gross negligence for roughly 1 year. Normally, there might be 10 to 15 residents, not including Board Members, at the monthly meetings, there were roughly 50 residents for this meeting (We have 280 Condos, and roughly 250 were filled at the time of the meeting).

The result of his actions drained our Capital Reserve Fund from roughly $250,000 down to $20,000. To make matters worse, he and/or the Board never drafted/made a plan to restore these funds back to the Capital Reserve Fund. Furthermore, a Capital Reserve Fund Study that was performed in 2003 recommended that roughly $85,000 a year to be placed in the Reserve Fund.

Second, I explained how roughly 50% of the residents were not paying their monthly Condo Fees, and that The Board voted 3-2 against collecting Late Fees and the penlites and did not want to enforce collections because they do not want to have any conflicts with their neighbor/friend. However, we were still paying a lawyer on a monthly basis to file claims for past dues, but The Board did not want her to enforce the collections.

I explained to the residents that we are at a crossroads, and if we do not come together to figure out a plan for our financial situation, then in roughly 2 to 4 years our financial problems will get to a point to where we will not be able to fix them. In other words, unable to pay our monthly expenses. And, I predicted the following events will occur over the next 2 to 4 years. Also, I told the people at the meeting that we need to organize at least 60% of the residents to sign a petition to have the one board member who is responsible for this removed, and if they have any questions or want to see the evidence to contact me, and I would be willing to talk to them.

(1) There will be a yearly increase increase in Condo Fees because we have to find another revenue source if residents continue to stop paying their dues.

(2) There will be an increase in residents who do not pay their Condo Fees because (1) the economy will continue to get worse and since they know some of their neighbors are not paying their fees, then they will stop paying as well when they have to choose which bill does not get paid for the month. Also, there is a strong possibility of a one time assessment in addition to the monthly condo fees.

(3) The Condo Association will not have the money to make major repairs such as roofs, siding, etc. One set of units are 30 years old and the other are 20 years old, therefore, most of the units need to have some major repairs done to them. For example, if there are 4 roofs that have to be replaced, then only the worst roof will be replaced, and the other 3 will have to wait.

(4) Crime will increase because as the economy continues to get worse people will become more desperate, and we will not have the money to pay for some type of security.

(5) As crime increases and people continue to stop paying their condo fees, our property values will decline. To make matters worse once the banks find out about our financial problems they will not issue mortgages to the buyer and it will become very difficult to sell our Condos

(6) Within 4 to 5 years from now we will be bankrupt, and the state of New Jersey will take over our Condos.

EVIDENCE I HAVE AND PRESENTED:

- Monthly statements from 2000 through 2010 for the bank account for the capital reserves, and the monthly statements for our operating account (used to pay short term bills). Starting around January 2006 through May/June 2007 the capital reserve fund monthly statements show withdraws of $10,000 to $15,000 every month without any cash deposits. Balance went from $250,000 down to $2,000. Also, all of the statements have copies of the checks, which shows who signed them (The President I am going after signed every check).

- Since my last post, I have found invoices for the roofs that were completed during 2006 and 2007. However, the total amount of the invoices are for roughly $150,000; whereas, the canceled checks show roughly $250,000, all to the same company. There are 5 invoices that show the cost of each roof, including materials and labor, was $30,000 (Our units have 5 homes linked to each other with another 5 homes linked in the back, I would guess that the total length is around 50 yards horizontally). Last Summer, when I showed these invoices to the Board member who resigned right after I was elected, he said that he thinks we were overcharged because it costs roughly $20,000 to $25,000 to replace a roof in 2012. Not to mention, there is $100,000 that is not accounted for in the invoices (there is a chance they were lost).

- Water Bills from roughly Jan 2007 through December 2008, and they show we stopped paying our water bill in May of 2007, which was the last month the capital reserve fund had any money in it. Also, shows that we did not pay our water bill during the months of May, June, July, August, and September. Furthermore, the pool was open during the same Summer, which increased the amount of our water bill.

- A copy of a Capital Reserve Study from 2003 that states roughly $85,000 for the next 20 years should be placed into the Reserve Fund on an annual basis. If any capital projects were to be undertaken during this time, then (1) a plan has to be made to show what project is being completed, (2) Estimated cost of the plan (3) How the cash used for the cost of the project will be replaced

- From 2003 through 2005, The Board spent roughly $40,000 to $50,000 a year on roofs, and during this time the Capital Reserve Fund's
balance was between $250,000 to $350,000. Therefore, The Board understood that money taken out of the Reserve Fund was to be replaced
and The President of the Board during this time is the same one who I am trying to be charged with gross negligence. Furthermore, the
reason I know he understands this concept is because he signed every check that was written out of the Reserve Fund from 2000 through 2010.

- The Board has failed to record any minutes from their meetings going back to at least 2003 because one of my neighbors was on The Board from 2003 through 2007, and he said The President (The one who I am trying to prove gross negligence on) told him that during the 90's there was a vote to stop keeping minutes of the meetings.

- No permits were filed with our township for these roofs, and no plan to repay the Capital Reserve Fund for these roofs. Furthermore, since 2008 the Board has yet to come up with a plan to replace the money in our Reserve Fund. Instead, since 2008 through 2010, The President has deposited the monthly Condo Fees into our Reserve Fund, but within a week transfers all of the cash to our operating account to pay the monthly bills. As an accountant, I can tell you this is fraud/ a sham because he has shown no intention of trying to rebuild our Reserve Fund. If he did have any intention, then he would deposit the condo fees into the operating account, then any amount left over is then transferred to the Reserve Fund. Instead, he is trying to give the appearance that money is going into the Reserve Fund, but is being spent on capital projects.

To say the room was filled with anger was an understatement. I had 10 to 15 people come up to me after the meeting wanting to help get the Board member removed, and help get our finances back on track. However, no one contacted me after the meeting, and no one ever has. However, a few nights after the meeting someone slashed my tires. Then slashed them again when I got it fixed. I guess someone was either pissed or scared. I made an appoinment to go to a lawyer to see what our options were, and if he could be charged with gross negligence. The following month we went to an attorney, but once we got to the office I had an allergic reaction to some medication and had to go to the hospital. But, this attorney would no longer meet with me. I made an appoint with another attorney, but in the mean time there was going to be special election.

There was to be an election the upcoming month to replace the Board member who had resigned. Three people ran including one of my neighbors who was previously on the Board (He was the main Board member who had The President resign in 2007 once the Board realized he drained the Reserve Fund and ran up a water bill of $60,000. He helped point me in the direction of where to look for possible fraud, aka water bills, and wanted to run again because he felt that there was someone finally on the Board that he could work with and maybe save this place from bankruptcy). At our next weekly Board meeting I asked the members the following question:

- Is there a plan to fund the Reserve Fund? Not only was there not a plan, but 2 of the members did not know what the Reserve Fund was let alone that NJ Condo Law required us to fund it on a regular basis. Once showed them the Reserve Study that I had mentioned at the last meeting, and that we were about $500,000 under funded they wanted to vote on when to open the pools. To make matters worse, one of the pools was closed the previous Summer and required about $10,000 of work on it just to open it. They said that they received too many complaints last Summer about it being closed, and promised to open it that Summer because they did not feel like hearing there neighbors complain. At this point I realized I was alone in understanding our financial problem, and that unless we got people on The Board who understand this we were doomed.

The results of every election are supposed to be read in front of the residents at a meeting open to everyone, and normally these meetings have the most people show up compared to the rest of the year. However, this time there were only 2 residents, and they were told to leave and the results as well as the election for positions within the Board would be held in the back room. At this point in time I knew something was wrong. One of The President's friend, a book keeper I might add (However, from my conversations with him he has no understand accounting or finance at all. Granted, he can input data into an accounting system, but he has no idea how the numbers connect in the general ledger to form the income statement and balance sheet) won the election. Immediately after the results were read they held the elections for the positions, and I was out voted for Treasurer by The President's friend. Instead, I was not given an official position (We have President,Vice President, Treasurer, and Secretary. The other person holds no position, but really only the President and Treasurer have any power. This is because every check has to be signed by the President and another board member other than the Treasurer. The treasurer is the only person who has the access to both the bank statements and direct access the accounting system.)

Right away everything in the room started spinning because I realized I had been "blackballed". I asked to see the election results, and the Board refused to give them to me. Instead of reacting or saying anything that I could not take back, I went home, and wrote a letter of resignation because (1) I was alone on the Board and (2) I did not want to be held financially responsible when this place falls apart. I said to myself if none of the residents care about what happened, and if the Board prevents me from doing anything, I just dont care anymore. When I went to the other attorney, I explained to him what happened with me and the board, but I showed him all the evidence. He said that I have a case for gross negligence against the President. Also, I asked him about how the payment would work, and he said not to worry about it. I was assuming that the Condo Association would be responsible, but a week later he sent me a bill for $600 and if I wanted to continue that I would be responsible for paying him, not the Condo Association. As a result, I said forget it, and since then I have felt defeated, and just gave up.
,
Since then, Summer of 2010, the following has happened:

(1) Roughly 33% of the people are paying their Condo Fees, down from 50% in 2010

(2) Condo fees have risen roughly 20%, condo fee is based on what type of unit you have and there 3 different types.

(3) An assessment of $750 for each unit was passed by the Board last Fall

(4) Home Values have declined roughly 30% to 35% (some of this is based on the economy)

(5) Homes were being broken into at such a rate that the Board had to pay the local police station (Program available to pay off duty cops to patrol your area) to patrol our Condos 2 to 3 weeks a night to try and prevent the break ins.

(6) A lot of the home owners are unable to sell their Condo because certain banks will not give a mortgage to a buyer who wants a Condo in our association (Some banks are still giving out mortgages though).

The last election, which was a month ago, became very personal which I will discuss shortly. First, the one resident who asked me to run in 2010, but resigned after 2 or 3 months after the election, ran in 2011 and won back his seat. He saw the "financial cliff" we are about to go over, and wanted to do everything in his power to prevent The State from taking over. He explained to me that we are currently at a point to were the condo fees themselves are not enough to cover the monthly expenses, and the only reason we are staying in the black each month is because they have begun to collect the past condo fees through our attorney. Also, there is only $20,000 in the Reserve Fund with no plans to try and build it back up. After he was elected he came to me, and asked for financial advice. I explained to him

(1) I explained to him though the bank statements how the president drained our reserve fund and never replaced it(He was not at the meeting when I explained it to the residents)

(2) Once we have a negative monthly cash flow, then it will be extremely difficult to prevent bankruptcy.

(3) Can not raise condo fees any more because the ones that are currently paying will eventually reach a level to where they can not pay anymore. Also, I recommended that maybe if you decrease fees, then more people will pay, and the increase in people paying will be more than the cost of the cut. Or, issue a 1 time assessment of $500 to $1000 to be paid in installments, and that by doing this then maybe the residents will finally realize and understand our financial situation. The real goal of the assessment is mainly to get the residents to understand our financial situation, and any money collected from it would be a bonus.

(4) Cut as many costs as possible, but not to the point to where it hurts us. For example, close the pool because we dont have the money to run it, but do not lay off a maintenance man because that prevents us from fixing issues with the condos.

(5) Get a lawyer ASAP to protect yourself from any liability in case we go bankrupt with you on the board. Also, see if and how we can press charges against the main board member who put us in this financial dark hole.

During this past election, about a month, 6 people ran, 3 of who were up for reelection and 1 who was a previous board member, and roughly every week leading up to the election they each sent out "letters" blaming each other for the current financial situation (The assessment worked because that was the main topic of heated debate). However, after the first election not enough people voted, which just goes to show how little the residents care. (Our bylaws require 2/3 of the owners of the units to vote. If unit is owned by bank, not counted within the 2/3) After the 2nd election, only 1 of the previous Board members was reelected, and 2 new people were elected ( 1 of them owns 10 units, and owns a real estate company. ) Finally, the president that help cause our current financial mess was not reelected.

For those that read all of this, thank you, here are my questions:

1. I honestly feel the ex-president that caused the financial mess we are in needs to be charged with gross negligence for his past actions. I have the feeling that the one board member who came to me for help is not pursing this course of action. There is more than enough evidence that proves what he did, even a lawyer I went to stated so. However, if the new board does not want to pursue this action, can I still go to a lawyer and press charges, and if so then who is responsible for payment?

2. Do any of ya'll have any financial ideas of how we can avoid from The State taking over?

3. If the State does take over, then will they go back through the records to see where we went wrong, and hold past board members responsible?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Joe,

First of all, thanks for the update and I'm sorry you had to deal with everything you had to in your Association.
In response to your questions:

Quote:
Posted By JoeM7 on 03/26/2013 10:54 AM

1. I honestly feel the ex-president that caused the financial mess we are in needs to be charged with gross negligence for his past actions. I have the feeling that the one board member who came to me for help is not pursing this course of action. There is more than enough evidence that proves what he did, even a lawyer I went to stated so. However, if the new board does not want to pursue this action, can I still go to a lawyer and press charges, and if so then who is responsible for payment?

From what you posted, it appears that the money did go for Association expenses. Therefore, it's more likely that the issue would be considered a bad business decision.

If the current Board did decide to go after a past Board, D&O insurance wouldn't cover the expenses (at least my policy wouldn't as they don't cover board against board actions). It's likely that your previous board members would have standing to have the Association fund their defense since they were acting for the Association at the time. Therefore, it's probable that the legal expenses would be more than the gain and having more expenses probably isn't good at the moment.

Instead, I would suggest that you take some of the money you want to use in legal expenses and have an audit of the books performed. This would likely help the Association more and, if any wrong doing is discovered, decisions can be made then.

Quote:
Posted By JoeM7 on 03/26/2013 10:54 AM

2. Do any of ya'll have any financial ideas of how we can avoid from The State taking over?

Nothing more than what you have already posted.

Quote:
Posted By JoeM7 on 03/26/2013 10:54 AM

3. If the State does take over, then will they go back through the records to see where we went wrong, and hold past board members responsible?

Only if there were criminal actions like embezzlement.

One thing I've noticed throughout this thread is that you seem to be blaming one or two individuals.
However, you alerted the other board members and the membership to the issues you saw and no changes were implemented. If you're wanting to toss blame around it has to be at all the other board members and the apathetic membership. Additionally, from my point of view, you shouldn't have resigned. I understand the frustration you probably were experiencing. However, had you stayed on the Board, you could have continued to ask the tough questions and may have swayed others to your point of view.

Again, thanks for the update.

Tim
JoeM7 (New Jersey)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 03/26/2013 11:23 AM
Joe,

From what you posted, it appears that the money did go for Association expenses. Therefore, it's more likely that the issue would be considered a bad business decision.

If the current Board did decide to go after a past Board, D&O insurance wouldn't cover the expenses (at least my policy wouldn't as they don't cover board against board actions). It's likely that your previous board members would have standing to have the Association fund their defense since they were acting for the Association at the time. Therefore, it's probable that the legal expenses would be more than the gain and having more expenses probably isn't good at the moment.

Instead, I would suggest that you take some of the money you want to use in legal expenses and have an audit of the books performed. This would likely help the Association more and, if any wrong doing is discovered, decisions can be made then.


Even though the funds were used to repair roofs, here is the problem that I see. First, he is solely responsible for the drainage of the capital reserve fund. Second, he has been President of the HOA and leading the policy of not enforcing the collection of the condo fees without having any penalty enforced to residents who have not paid. This started around 2008 when the financial crisis started. First, the issue was never voted on, he just insisted that since people are having financial problems to give them time to pay. It just so happened that at first the people not paying their fees were all of his friends. Also, around the same time 2 of the other board members stopped paying their condo fees as well.

- A series of checks are written for a total of $250,000, but roughly only half of that, $125,000 is accounted for in the invoices. Where is the rest of the money?

- These roofs were never approved by the board because one of the board members at the time this occurred is my neighbor and he told me that these roofs were never approved.

- No plan was made at the time to refund the capital reserve fund, and there has yet to be a plan to refund the capital reserve fund. Not to mention that our Reserve Study states to place roughly $85,000 a year in our reserve fund

- His actions directly led to the entire Condo's water being cut off because of not paying the water bill for 4 months. During the same time as not paying the water bill, he kept the pools open thus incurring a larger water bill

- He never told any of the other board members, and roughly a day or two before the water was about to be shut off it was by chance that another board member was in the office when the water company came by to give us a warning.

- By draining the reserve fund and never replacing the money in it, it has left our complex "financially crippled". There are quite a few units that need to have major work done on them, and there is no money to complete these repairs.

- I know for a fact that a few of our residents are not able to sell their condo's because the bank says there is not enough money in our capital reserves. As a result, our home values have fallen roughly 35%.

- We have already reached the point to were there is not enough money from condo fees to pay the monthly expenses, and if we were not collecting past condo fees, then we would be bankrupt.

- In 2008, roughly 95% of the residents paid their condo fees (I know because I can calculate it from our bank statements), then around 2010 roughly 65% to 70% were paying on time, and as of last Summer roughly 35% are paying on time.

So even though he is directly responsible for draining the reserve fund, along with a missing $125,000, and never told another board member about these projects nor had a plan to replace the funds. Now, we are unable to take on any major projects when there are multiple buildings falling apart. On top of that, he started a policy of allowing residents to be late on their condo fees without penalty, and as other residents found out that no action was being taken against this, more residents stopped paying their fees. Now, it is only a matter of time before the state takes over because we will go bankrupt, and our home values will be worthless. And, your telling me there is no way that he can be found to have been negligent? I could understand the latter if he was a board member for the first time, but he has been on the board since this place first opened back in the 70's.

As for the audit (I have a degree in accounting and a masters in tax. I understand audits and what they entail), they are only as good as the information being supplied. Also, all the auditor does is check roughly 10% of the transactions to make sure what is recorded in the books matches the paperwork that led to the input of the information into the accounting system. Theoretically, you can keep two sets of books, one that you use for the public and audits, and the second to reflect the true financial situation. I know that our audits are being done with the former.

I know for a fact the information in our accounting system does not properly reflect what has actually occurred. For example, accounts receivable, which is supposed to include how much residents owe in past condo fees, is listed at $55,000, but I know for a fact there is a spreadsheet that states residents owe us $350,000 in back condo fees, and about another $100,000 in late fees. My point is that the information being given to the accountants does not include a true financial picture of what is going on. However, in the auditors report most recent report there is a recommendation that the reserve fund needs to be increased because it is severely underfunded. There was no way to hide that because this number is reflected in the bank account and not in the accounting system.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DanielH1 on 05/04/2010 2:53 PM

If the guy spent the money on hookers instead of roofing, you'd have a better case.

That raises the question of where did the money go?

He has cancelled checks made payable to a roofing company but no permits to do the work and no record of the board approving the expenditures. Was the work actually done or was there a three way split of the funds between the roofer, the president, and the treasurer?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoeM7 on 03/26/2013 12:21 PM

First, he is solely responsible for the drainage of the capital reserve fund.

No he's not.
Per your posting there were two signatures on the checks, so at least one other person is responsible.
Per your posting, you informed the board of the issue and nothing was done so the entire board is responsible.
Per your posting, you informed the membership, they reelected him - hence they are partly to blame as well.

Quote:
Posted By JoeM7 on 03/26/2013 12:21 PM

Second, he has been President of the HOA and leading the policy of not enforcing the collection of the condo fees without having any penalty enforced to residents who have not paid. . . First, the issue was never voted on . . .

But the entire Board knew or should have known that people weren't paying. Additionally, since he was leading the policy and telling the board to wait, regardless if the vote was noted in the minutes or not, the Board was aware and by their silence approved the process.

The board where it first started and every board after that one, until the collection started is responsible.

Quote:
Posted By JoeM7 on 03/26/2013 12:21 PM

- A series of checks are written for a total of $250,000, but roughly only half of that, $125,000 is accounted for in the invoices. Where is the rest of the money?

Hence my suggestion for an audit.
If the money was embezzled, contact the authorities.

Quote:
Posted By JoeM7 on 03/26/2013 12:21 PM

- These roofs were never approved by the board because one of the board members at the time this occurred is my neighbor and he told me that these roofs were never approved.

And no one on that board removed the individual as President (which is what should have been done for spending funds without board approval). Therefore, because that board did nothing to stop this practice from happening, that board is responsible for allowing the situation to continue.

Quote:
Posted By JoeM7 on 03/26/2013 12:21 PM

- No plan was made at the time to refund the capital reserve fund, and there has yet to be a plan to refund the capital reserve fund. Not to mention that our Reserve Study states to place roughly $85,000 a year in our reserve fund

Ahh, but the Board know about the spending and still made no plan to repay.

Look we can go back and forth like this all day. However, I just don't have the time to even go through the rest of your posting.

In my mind it's simple. When the Board was not aware of the issue, it was the one or two individuals fault.
Once the Board was made aware of the issue and took zero steps to correct the issue (the reason why they didn't doesn't matter), then that Board and all future boards who were aware and took no action became the problem and are at fault. Once the membership was informed and refused to step forward to serve and continued to vote these same individuals into office then they must also take part of the blame.

Let me try explaining this another way.

An individual is sexually assaulted.
The assailant is obviously at fault.
This incident is reported to an individual/s who had the power to stop (or minimize the risk) and nothing is done.
Same assailant sexually assaults another individual.
Wouldn't the individual/s who was told of the first incident but failed to act to prevent a future occurrence equally or at least partially to blame for the second incident?

Hope this helps,

Tim
JoeM7 (New Jersey)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 03/26/2013 1:04 PM
Posted By DanielH1 on 05/04/2010 2:53 PM

If the guy spent the money on hookers instead of roofing, you'd have a better case.


That raises the question of where did the money go?

He has cancelled checks made payable to a roofing company but no permits to do the work and no record of the board approving the expenditures. Was the work actually done or was there a three way split of the funds between the roofer, the president, and the treasurer?


I have a copy of all the canceled checks because I have all the bank statements for both the capital reserve fund and operating account from Jan 2000 through June 2010, and it shows each check being made to the same roofing company. Each check has to be signed by the president and 1 other board member, and I was told that the president was always the first person to the meetings and whoever showed up second he would have sign the checks. Therefore, no one was able to put together that the roofing jobs were being done.I believe this story because of the 5 checks made out to the roofing company only 1 board member signed it twice.

I checked with the local police station to see if any permits were filed, and there were none filed. However, they do have copies of the permits for the roofs done prior to 2006. Also, my mom works for the Camden County court system, and from her research no permits were filed. I do believe the work was actually done because the units listed on the invoice did have their roofs replaced during that time period.

Again, there are no minutes from the Board meetings, and from what I have gathered there have not been any minutes for any meetings for about a decade.

The problem is (1) were we overcharged for the 5 roofs that were replaced (I have been told that a roof does not even costs $30,000 to replace in 2013), and (2) granted the other $125,000 went to the roofing company, but were are the invoices? Honestly, the board member could say that the invoices have been misplaced, and being overcharged for a job is not a crime. The only way to check is to look into his bank accounts during that time period. I know for a fact that he owns 2 other units, but I am not sure when he bought them. However, I believe that he bought them within the last 15 years. Furthermore, I know for a fact that he worked as a restaurant manager until roughly 2000 when he got a job with NJ DMV. I find it very difficult to afford 3 mortgages with his salary unless he inherited a lot of money

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Joe I believe that is why Tim suggested having an audit done. Now you can have your suspicions, you can voice them, even though you might be opening yourself up to slander or liable. But at the end of the day, without proof, that is all you have, suspicions.


Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
LauraR5 (Tennessee)
Posts: 220
Posted:
Can you do some due diligence on this roofing company? If there were 250,000 worth of checks written and only 150,000 in invoices, it looks suspicious to me, too. But you really need to figure out a way to account for those fees. If there were some sort of kickback or money laundering, then you contact your district attorney with the evidence.

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