unresponsive Board & Management company..

Started by AdamK • 37 replies • 4913 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

AdamK (Arizona)
Posts: 23

Posted:

To keep this short, I am having a slew of issues with our HOA and management company. I joined the board to try and get some direct answers with no luck. The board defaults all of it's issue to the company and the company then sits on the issues for months and then defaults them back to the board. Both pick and chose what rules to enforce and how to enforce them. The people at the management company are rude and do not take responsibility for anything.

To be more specific, my lot neighbors an association landscape tract. It has 3 large trees 3 feet from our block fence which in the CC&Rs are considered "shared". The roots of the tree have grown so large that there are inch gaps between the blocks on the wall and the roots have entered into my yard killing my landscapping and even coming up through the ground on our side. I have requested something be done about this for 2 years and the only response I get (if i get one) is that they need more money to do anything about it.

The drastic measure I would like to take is to be removed from the HOA. I feel that neither the board nor the managment company has provided any service to me as a homeowner. I have paid my dues on time, followed all by-laws and CC&R documents, yet now the association is directly impacting my lot in a negative manner. Is it possible for a lot with on-going problems to removed itself from he assocation?

What other options do I have? Like I said, I've joined the board and while others on the board do see the problems with the management company, they are all too lazy and scared of conflict to say anything or force them to do anything. Other association members feel the same way, however, have just given up because their property isn't as affected as mine is. Can I file a police report that their tree is damaging my property?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

RobE4 (North Carolina)
Posts: 12

Posted:

I would assume that once the roots enter your property that you could address them by cutting them. Wouldn't that be a normal landscaping task on your property. Why involve the management company?

AdamK (Arizona)
Posts: 23

Posted:

maintaining a tree that is not mine is not my responsibility first and foremost. Secondly, I'm not sure of the extent of the roots. It may be the few that I've seen poking up through the ground, but by the look of the damage it has caused to the block fence i'm assuming that it is large. Also, I have been told that any maintence I do to the tree (it has broken limbs that I requested to be trimmed and even offered to do it myself) would be at my own risk and if anything happens to the tree in the future I would be held responsible. I am not sure if that covers the roots on my property but I don't have the funds to legally find out. Finally, I if I wanted to maintain that tree, I wouldn't be paying an association to do it for me.

RobE4 (North Carolina)
Posts: 12

Posted:

Sounds like you can not say beyond a doubt that the roots you are worried about are actually from the tree you identified. Roots travel a long distance. I think you will use up a lot of energy trying to get your management company to resolve this issue.

AdamK (Arizona)
Posts: 23

Posted:

like i said, i've been trying for 2 years to get them to do something about this. without any specific examples or suggestions i can't think of anything else to do. and the way that the trees are positioned, and leaning, i can say without a doubt that the roots are coming from the association trees. I live in arizona, there aren't too many trees to begin with, and when i can see the roots on the association side above the ground leading towards my property, and then dip under the fence and along that same line appear on my side, i think it's safe to say that they are from the associations tree.

DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482

Posted:

What happens if you own a company with a bunch of co-owners who let the company go down the drain?

It happens. If you ask the government, they say, "You chose to own/live there." You had elections. You, as a group, elected a Board. They are your representatives. If you don't like how it's going, elect somebody else. If you can't elect somebody else, well, that's democracy for you: majority rules, even if the majority is dumb, wrong, incompetent, naive or uninterested.

Many people will complain to anybody and everybody that will listen. Nothing gets fixed, of course. They say, "It's not my job; it's the Board's job; I just want the Board to do their job." That's true but, if you aren't willing to either do it yourself or (somehow) make the Board do its job, well, you'll just have to live with it. The threats from the Board about risk and liability are unfortunate. I guess that you'll have to decide whether taking your chances with the Board or protecting your property is more important.

Theoretically, you could leave but many owners have to allow you and that means that their dues will go up. If an owner wanted to leave my HOA, I wouldn't let them.

You could call the police. They'll probably tell you to sue.

Sorry that there's no good news here.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Adam, contact the city and find out what the policy for tree encroachment is for your community. Here if a tree's limbs are over your property then you can cut them back to the property line. If that causes the tree to die or fall over then that's too bad, not your fault but every State / community has different laws.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AdamK on 05/03/2010 9:44 AM

The drastic measure I would like to take is to be removed from the HOA. I feel that neither the board nor the managment company has provided any service to me as a homeowner. I have paid my dues on time, followed all by-laws and CC&R documents, yet now the association is directly impacting my lot in a negative manner. Is it possible for a lot with on-going problems to removed itself from he assocation?

Unless your HOA is voluntary, which it doesn't sound like it is, your documents most likely do NOT allow for individual members to secede from the HOA.

Mandatory HOA means just that, regardless of how well you think the board or MC "serve" you as a homeowner. (Which, by the way, is not really the job of either the board OR the MC. Just sayin'.)

It's also not likely that your documents allow you to with hold your dues/assessments because you don't like the way things are run, either.

Quote:

Posted By AdamK on 05/03/2010 9:44 AM

What other options do I have?

Take ownership of your own property and pay the money to either remove the root structures or add more topsoil or whatever.

It sounds like you want someone else to actually do the work and/or pay for something that is on your own property.

I think you're less intimidated by their (empty) threats than you are by the fact that they simply refuse to foot any bill for treatment/removal of the roots.

I could be wrong.

On the other hand, I've had trees with shallow root structures damage my yard (in another home) and, quite frankly, there's not really a lot you can do about it, depending on how massive the root system is, the type of tree and other such details.

Quote:

Posted By AdamK on 05/03/2010 9:44 AM

Like I said, I've joined the board and while others on the board do see the problems with the management company, they are all too lazy and scared of conflict to say anything or force them to do anything.

I commend and salute you for joining the board. However, what I'm hearing is you joined as a one-topic member. You want them to take care of this and you don't have the full board votes.

But, again, I could be misreading.

However it does open the door for one more suggestion of what you can do.

You can get off your one-note (the roots), and focus on other areas where "fresh" board members might want to contribute. Approach other residents and try to get some newer voices and faces involved, then have them get on the board, too.

But keep in mind, you're not going to get many foot soldiers concentrating totally on the negative or on the parts that you want fixed that only concern or benefit you.

Talk to you neighbors. Find out what things spark them. Find out what new ideas you can encourage them to bring to the table. Find out what's in it for THEM.

That's the key. People will be more responsive if they see a benefit to them.

Walk the neighborhood, take notes, find out what that is and bring a new cadre to the table.

Good luck.

AdamK (Arizona)
Posts: 23

Posted:

thanks for the response michelle. I can understand 100% how i may have come off as only wanting to deal with my issue (the roots). I have been active in other doings around our association, however, this is the one that both directly affects me and is not being handled. i can see how the easy response is for me to just pay someone to trim the roots myself, or have them fix the wall themselve, but like i said, the management company will then place 100% responsibility on to me. Other home owners with similar issues HAVE offered to pay 100% out of pocked to make the fence looks better by getting a board approved contractor to fix the fences, however, the management company suggested against it for liability reasons, so the board agreed to not let the homeowner fix a shared wall and has to wait for the association to find the funds to fix it. trust me, i understand if you want to reply with "that makes no sense" but our MC is a bunch of fast talking sleeze balls that will throw around big dollar signs to scare the board into thinking they know what they are talking about.

I have contacted the neighborhood services department for the city of phoenix to see if they have any suggestions. hopefully they can recommend something.

finally, you are right, i don't want to pay for someone to come in and fix a problem that was not cause by me. If someone got in a car accident, they don't just pay for the damage to their car, they rely on the other person if they are at fault to pay for the damage (whether through insurance or whatever). I don't see how this is any different, Someone elses property is causing direct damage to my personal property.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AdamK on 05/03/2010 11:29 AM

finally, you are right, i don't want to pay for someone to come in and fix a problem that was not cause by me. If someone got in a car accident, they don't just pay for the damage to their car, they rely on the other person if they are at fault to pay for the damage (whether through insurance or whatever). I don't see how this is any different, Someone elses property is causing direct damage to my personal property.

This is nothing like a car accident. Growing things....grow. The wall is another issue entirely and you will probably have to just wait til you have more power on the board.

But to be so stubborn about the roots, well, that's just -- stubborn -- and, as I used to tell my daughter when she was a teenager, a response like that is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Please do as Glen said and check whether you can remove vegetation encroaching onto YOUR property. Most jurisdictions allow this.

If they do, then suck it up and fix the root problem on your property yourself because the threats of making you responsible for "damage" to the tree are just empty threats intended to intimidate.

If they don't, then the only other alternative is the exact same alternative you would have over an adjacent homeowner's tree: take it to court.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Adam,

I advise you to listen to Michele and Glen; they've given you very good advice.

As a board member I would advise you to start having little discussions with your fellow board members. They should not feel intimidated to require certain things of the manager. The manager works for the BOD, not the other way around. There are a few unscrupulous management co's in the Valley and it sounds as though you have one. However, that doesn't mean you need to stick with them. The Valley has quite a few to pick from. If you were in Glendale (which is where I live) I would strongly recommend you and your board members to enroll in the HOA Academy. In fact, you may want to check with the Glendale Neighborhood Partnership Office to find out if you could attend even though you live in Phx. You and your fellow board members need to take back your assn. IMO, this inept manager is causing all of you to be in violation of your fiduciary duty to the assn.

RobE4 (North Carolina)
Posts: 12

Posted:

Ok try this angle ... if there were no HOA and the tree was in your neighbor's yard how you you handle the situtation?

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

Rob, that answer depends on how much i like my neighbor.

My current neighbor, we would talk about it over the fence, decide what to do, and we would both grab chainsaws, and do something we decided together. he's a great neighbor.

my neighbor 20 years ago? I would have root injected 3x strength roundup directly into pre-drilled holes in the roots of the tree on my side of the fence, followed by an application of gro-tox (Railroad grade) onto the sap roots in my yard.

then, the following year, when the tree was not longer a problem, i would have planted some honeysuckle, tigerlilly, forget me not, or kudzu or something along the fence line, and let it grow over into his yard.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BrianB on 05/03/2010 3:04 PM

then, the following year, when the tree was not longer a problem, i would have planted some honeysuckle, tigerlilly, forget me not, or kudzu or something along the fence line, and let it grow over into his yard.

You are so mean!!!

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Michele, Mary, and Glan,
Great job. Really, other than the one tune interest, the OP seems interested and concerned about the association. He just has a little tunnel vision and I suspect he is coming around to the real problem.
First, the tree concern is legitimate and the Board dhould take hold and address the problem.

Second, the board won't take interest because they are intimadated by the management company, and so is our OP. I don't blame him, it is lonely when you are the only one saying the sky is falling because of the tree.

With Michele, Glen and Mary's agreement, recognize this is going to take a while to fix, and the tree can wait. If you don't have any other Board members willing to stand up to this management company and install a little attitude adjustment into their contract, you need some help. You can not move this mountain all alone. You must have some personal support in your association or you would not have got elected. You need to get some of these folks coming to Board meeting asking some hard questions. I know your organization is not under the control of the people, that is clear, and that is counterproductive, your train has slipped the track. Apathy is the enemy of the HOA's, you are the result.
Consider: The people elect the Board........the board is responsible to the association made up of the members. Leave majority out of this, you don't govern by majority, you elect by most number of votes (not majority) The association is who the Board serves. The Board elects the president....the President serves the Board (check it out) the Board hires the management. The management does not serve the people, they serve who hired them (the Board). Get all this to work and put your tree issue on the list of things to be done and work to make IT ALL happen.

AdamK (Arizona)
Posts: 23

Posted:

thanks for all the response. I'm glad that some people are starting to see my side of the issue. Like i've already said, I don't have funds to get legal on anyone? Especially since I'm paying the HOA dues, it's sort of paying for my own enemies lawyer (if it goes that way). If the association were my neighbor, they would see the problem, and we could talk to resolve the problem. I have already offered to take care of the tree roots and fence problems myself, however, the board defaulted to the management company and the management company said that they would not allow me to do so because the liability of the fence is shared and the tree is the liability of the association. So basically even if I get a licensed and bonded landscaper or fence repair contractor and paid for it, the association still feels that it holds responsibility and if something happens to the tree or fence (it falls on a little baby) then the association is liable. Whether they are right or not, that is what their argument is, which leaves me with my hands tied.

I am "gathering troops" on my side, and I guess that's another question. What action items can I present? The Board is intimidated by the management company so even if i get the best HOA management company in the U.S. to manage the association for FREE, I don't see the board voting to switch. There unfortunately isn't that great of a interest of other members to re-appoint board members, however, when it's talk around the water-cooler or mailbox, everyone seems to agree something needs to be done.

Has anyone had any experience with getting rid of an HOA? we have 117 lots so it may be out of the question, but one smaller association near ours got rid of the HOA and is still very well kept. I understand that if we got rid of the HOA it gives neighbors free reign to do what they wish, however, that is what is going on now. There is no enforcement of rules and no responsibility taken for common areas. I'd assume the common areas would be divided amongst lots that are adjacent to the common grounds. But I have no idea. Just throwing it out there

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

OK, you want to get rid of the HOA so you start with the Declarations; somewhere will be a clause on how to disband the HOA. It usually requires between 95 & 100 percent of the members voting yes. Then you have to get the city or county or someone to take over the cost and maintenance of any common areas, retention ponds, playgrounds, pools etc. Easy peasy. Except most towns force builders to form HOA’s as a condition to build because the tax base generally doesn’t have the money to fund these things. Yes property taxes are high but the real revenue for a city comes from industrial or business property not homes.

Now back to reality, find some like minded homeowners and get them to run for the Board once you get a majority, get rid of the MC and get a new one or become self managed. Either that or you can sit and cry in your beer about how unfair it is.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Oh yeah I forgot, you also have to dissolve the corporation with the State and more than likely approval of the mortgage holders. One word of warning if you decide to try and shortcut the process by letting the corporation die without disposing of the common areas and don’t maintain insurance on them and someone is injured or killed then everyone owning a lot can be sued jointly and severalty for damages. Meaning while someone who has no or little equity in their home and little of value will only have to pay a little those with deep pockets will pay a lot.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Adam,
Ever get the feeling the more you dig the deeper you get Adam.

I think those posting agreed you got some problems in your HOA, that is what I see them agreeing with. When did these business come up of re-appointing Board members? Like it or not Adam the association is your neighbor and if you had no association you would still have the same neighbors. The issue of the fence, tree, falling on some little baby is not the issue, the issue is that your association, (your view) is wildly mis-managed by you and your neighbors. Your collective hands are not tied, there are thousand's of HOA's sorting through the same problems you have. We can tell you about how to start dealing with your problems if you accept what we say has some validity. If you want someone to agree with you, this is not the place to come. You are explaining to us about an orgaizational problem within your HOA. You can't convince anyone that this can be solved by repairing a wall and cutting some tree limbs or cutting down a tree to save a little baby will solve you HOA problems. First thing you can do as you gather troops is to not tell them to join your side. Your side is not your side it is the members side. You don't want them to join you, you want to join them. Think about your remark that if you got the best management company in the world for free your board would not change. If you can swallow that, who is going to come over to your side or how are you going to join the side that is going to be formed because there is nothing they can do? I think you are begining to see a different side to this story, it is understandable it may take a while. We have been there Adam.

RobE4 (North Carolina)
Posts: 12

Posted:

"Has anyone had any experience with getting rid of an HOA? we have 117 lots so it may be out of the question, but one smaller association near ours got rid of the HOA and is still very well kept. I understand that if we got rid of the HOA it gives neighbors free reign to do what they wish, however, that is what is going on now. There is no enforcement of rules and no responsibility taken for common areas. I'd assume the common areas would be divided amongst lots that are adjacent to the common grounds. But I have no idea. Just throwing it out there"

I am more than happy to share our process of getting rid of a managment company of 20 years ... but would prefer you open another topic so it does not get mixed in your tree issue. Note, we did not get rid of the management tasks, just the management company ... and now we pay individual to do the management task ... still, I have hard time spending all the money we use to for a management company each month.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AdamK on 05/03/2010 8:26 PM
Whether they are right or not, that is what their argument is, which leaves me with my hands tied.

**tough love alert-harshness ahead-don't take it personally**

Taking the fence out of the equation, your hands aren't tied. That's a cop out. That's your choice because you are still playing Mr. Scrooge with your money, but you still want somebody else's money to fix YOUR problem. It's not the HOA's problem, it's your problem.

You don't like the roots in your lawn.

We've told you what you can do about that. You won't even check to see if your jurisdiction allows you to take care of it yourself, basically because you want somebody else to pay for it.

So you're not even going to waste an ounce of your time trying to see if it really is a valid option.

You figure that since you "pay dues" that is where the money should come from. Except that money already goes to pay for other things.

Guess what? Glen, or whomever mentioned this, is absolutely correct that you could JUST as easily have the same problem with a neighbor who you can't talk nice-nice to and get the problem fixed mutually. Then what would you do?

Exactly. You would cut the damn roots up, fix your lawn and move on. Or you would take it to court. This garbage about paying your enemy's lawyer is just that, garbage. If you really feel. You wouldn't take it to court if it WERE just another neighbor's tree. That would mean STILL spending money of your own, and you don't want to do that at all.

Quote:
Posted By AdamK on 05/03/2010 8:26 PM
I am "gathering troops" on my side, and I guess that's another question. What action items can I present?

I already told you. Find out what's important to those troops.

We don't know. We don't live in your HOA.

We don't even know if what you are telling us is accurate.

The more you do share, however, the less and less I'm inclined to see your position as you do.

Quote:
Posted By AdamK on 05/03/2010 8:26 PM

The Board is intimidated by the management company so even if i get the best HOA management company in the U.S. to manage the association for FREE, I don't see the board voting to switch.

So? There probably isn't really a reason to switch. The board may simply need to be more pro-active, which leads to this. . . .

Quote:
Posted By AdamK on 05/03/2010 8:26 PM

There unfortunately isn't that great of a interest of other members to re-appoint board members, however, when it's talk around the water-cooler or mailbox, everyone seems to agree something needs to be done.

Re-appoint the board? THAT'S what you took from our suggestions?! No one said anything about "re-appointing" the board.

Some of us DID say that you should recruit interested association members to RUN for the board next time. That way you'd have more like-minded individuals on the board and you could have more of a voice that way.

We're talking about board ELECTIONS. That the membership makes. If you don't like the way the current board make up is working out, then don't vote for them next time and vote for other people who will move to get things done.

(But that's not fast enough for you, is it?)

Quote:
Posted By AdamK on 05/03/2010 8:26 PM
Has anyone had any experience with getting rid of an HOA? we have 117 lots so it may be out of the question,

So now the real agenda comes out. Get RID of the HOA? Seriously? Because they won't get their damn tree's roots out of your lawn?

Oh, no, because they aren't enforcing restrictions anyway. . . . good grief! You really are like my daughter when she was 12!

You go right from people not wanting to "re-appoint" the board to "let's get rid of the HOA"!!

I think you missed a few steps there, Bunky.

If you don't like what the board is doing, next election vote them out and vote in people you think will do more.

Heck, you're on the board, so YOU'RE part of the problem and I have YET to see you come up with a constructive SOLUTION to YOUR OWN HOA issues! You don't even want to take care of the root problem in your own freaking yard!

Quote:
Posted By AdamK on 05/03/2010 8:26 PM
but one smaller association near ours got rid of the HOA and is still very well kept.

Yeah, today. But what happens when that family with the RVs move in. Or the guy who doesn't believe in cutting lawns. Or the guy who wants to park his semi-truck cab in the driveway, or build a two-story shed?

Quote:
Posted By AdamK on 05/03/2010 8:26 PM

I understand that if we got rid of the HOA it gives neighbors free reign to do what they wish, however, that is what is going on now. There is no enforcement of rules and no responsibility taken for common areas.

Why do I feel this is just a pile of hogwash? You are on the board. Why are you not speaking up about lack of enforcement? You CLAIM the board won't do anything. But that's very vague.

Better yet, please provide us with solid details about what it NOT being enforced. I would feel much more comfortable agreeing with you if I had a little more detail.

Quote:
Posted By AdamK on 05/03/2010 8:26 PM
I'd assume the common areas would be divided amongst lots that are adjacent to the common grounds.

And you would have assumed wrongly. And if I were a member of that association I would be pissed if other members suddenly get a bonus of more acreage because you didn't want to fix your own freaking root problem.

Tell me something, what is it that you actually DO on the board, anyway?

When were you elected?

How many meetings have you attended?

What sorts of things (projects) have you worked on?

What was your GOAL for joining the board?

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Opps. Had some HTML issues, so disregard all the italics in my post above.

Sorry.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Adam,

Just a few comments about getting rid of the HOA. Glen has given you a clear picture of the process. As you can see it isn't about just dissolving the HOA, the corp also needs to be dissolved. All this is addressed in state statute. The BOD would need to come up with a plan for the common areas. Usually the first step is to ask the city if they would take over ownership but don't count on that. Here in Glendale the City will NOT do this. The common areas largely consist of water retention areas which cannot be used for any other purpose. So that eliminates potential buyers from wanting to snap up any open land. If the common areas stand idle each individual homeowner would be liable should someone get injured. A voluntary HOA could always be set up to maintain them. Now regarding enforcement of the covenants. The covenants run with the land so even if the HOA no longer exists, the covenants remain. Each property owner has the authority to enforce through small claims court.

DaveW3 (Missouri)
Posts: 9

Posted:

I wonder if the people who want to do away with the HOA because they don't like some of the things going on ever think about who will maintain the common areas, pools, tennis courts, etc.. when there are no funds to do so?

Our CC&R's state that the Association is responsible for maintaining the common areas. If a tree growing in a common area were damaging my property, I would demand it be removed or I would get an attorney and force them to do so. You could even probably sue them in small claims and get a damage judgement. Big deal if you are "suing yourself" (the HOA). Either they remedy the problem they are liable for or they get sued.

BTW, I am President of my HOA.

AdamK (Arizona)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Thanks for all the responses. Dissolving the HOA was not my lone idea. There are about 50 of the 117 (pretty much all of the active members who attend meetings etc) that said they would be open to hearing more details about dissolving the HOA than just re-appointing (and when i said re-appointing, i mean re-electing) board members or managment companies. I'm sure it is a lengthy process so thank you for all your input.

I have been on the board for over a year. I have dealt with compliance issues that the previous board did not want to deal with. I have talked individually with problemed home-owners, explained our CC&Rs and By-laws and in most cases the response I got was "yeah i got the letters but no one enforced them so i didn't do anything". While a crappy attitude I got in there and leveled with them and got things changed. Witht another board member we have gone on night inspections of our sprinkler system to save over $400 a month in water costs. We had a lot of broken irrigation lines and other issues that cause major flooding. in AZ any flooding (yes even of that magnitude) will evaporate by the time the sun comes up so we walked to grounds at 2:00AM when the sprinklres went off to pin-point the problems.

As for the tree and block wall, i have said several times that I would take on the financial responsibility of fixing the problem if I was allowed to. I am afraid of forking over the money to do so, and then get a letter from the HOA's lawyer saying that I altered association property without prior approval. I have been told NO to my requests to fix things. I have a call into the city to try and get some help with allowing my HOA to (yes it would be my first choice) fix the problem themselves, come up with a happy medium, or allow me to make the fixes.

Thanks again for your input.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

For some reason I picture Adam as follows:

When confronted with a car with a problem transmission, the solution is either:

Find out the parts that aren't working and REPLACE them. . . .

Or. . ..

Drive it off a cliff.

AdamK (Arizona)
Posts: 23

Posted:

i actually just bought a car with a problem transmission. I went to the establishment that i bought it from and they took responsibility for it and fixed it since it was proven to be their fault for the problem.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AdamK on 05/04/2010 6:38 PM
i actually just bought a car with a problem transmission. I went to the establishment that i bought it from and they took responsibility for it and fixed it since it was proven to be their fault for the problem.

Way to ignore the point.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

PS: It's a shame you don't take as much ownership and responsibility for your HOA as you do a car.

AdamK (Arizona)
Posts: 23

Posted:

hmm, i first brought the problem to the attention of the board. we agreed there was a problem. i requested the make/pay for the repair, they said no, i offered to make/pay for the repair, they said no. not sure how much more ownership / responsibility i can take. i'm not about to get sued for altering hoa property (even if it is on my lot) as threatened by my association. just looking for some advice here.

glad you found it necessary to pick on me this month. and it's only may, i feel honored

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Aw, aren't you sweet.

Taking ownership meant getting more people on board to be on the board.

You don't want to do that.

waaah.

Let's just push it off the cliff instead.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Adam,
I don't think anyone that reads this thread is unaware of what you have to say, and I think they understand where you are coming from. To suggest that Michele is picking on you seems to explain some of your difficulties in finding an all out endorsement of your agenda, I think you do have a viable concern. That buys you nothing. Associations are not simplistic and you err if you think all will be well if things happen how you think they should. It is clear you have some problems in your HOA, it is not clear you are the knight in shinning armor that will ride in and fix everything. Dr. Phil always ask: How's that working out for you. If your answer is not so well, it is time to try something different. Some owners need to step forward and get involved in your association. It sounds like the sooner the better. In the meantime, when you have posted as many posts as Michele has on the board, that is the time to pick a fight with her. She don't need me to defend her, that I know, so I am not concerned about her. But you came on here for a reason, if we have helped, fine, we don't help everyone.........impossible. Right now this thread is fast becoming destructive. Maybe you should just sum up and call it a day. Start a new thread and pick a different subject. You are not without knowledge and desire to improve your association. You sound like you have already stepped up to the plate, maybe we can help you be a little more productive.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Adam,

If that many members of your HOA are in favor of dissolution then you, as a board member, should research the topic. Go to the City Neighborhood Partnership Office and talk to the head of the department. Ask him if the City is responsive to having the common areas deeded to them if the HOA were to dissolve. If he says "no" then ask him what recourse the HOA members have; is the City willing to work out some other option so that they can dissolve the HOA? This is what needs to be done otherwise the BOD will be constantly faced with members complaining and demanding to dissolve the HOA. I know what this is like because this is what happened in my former assn. It got really bad at the time my husband happened to be the Pres. He went to the City (Glendale) and asked the questions and got the answers in writing. He then sent a letter to all the members of our assn (49) and gave them the facts. Bottom line was the City would NOT take over the common areas -- period. This completely stopped the demands to dissolve the HOA.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Mary, your advice, which I believe you and others have already given, is excellent.

However, I am a bit intrigued by this statement my Adam earlier:

" There are about 50 of the 117 (pretty much all of the active members who attend meetings etc) that said they would be open to hearing more details about dissolving the HOA than just re-appointing (and when i said re-appointing, i mean re-electing) board members or managment companies."

A couple things about this statement:

First, that his HOA apparently has roughly just under HALF of the membership apparently regularly attending meetings. That's huge, and hardly the apathy that was implied previously. It seems to me that out of 50 (active) members, there are bound to be 1, 2 or 3 who wouldn't mind stepping up and getting on the board to help Adam's agenda to remove the tree roots. Even if he has to fake them out by getting them to run for other issues closer to their own hearts, whatever those issues might be.

Second, even Adam's own characterization doesn't indicate that almost half want to dissolve the HOA. He clearly says that they would be "open to hearing more details. . ." Where I come from, that's a polite brush-off. They don't want to get into a big confrontation, but if someone is willing to do the research, they'll "listen." Who knows what was said to them to even get them to somewhat agree to even hearing more details.

For one thing, it would seem to me to be MUCH easier to simply re-elect different board members than to just tear the dang thing down. But, whatever.

Finally, what are the 50 (active) members showing up to the meetings for? Apparently regularly attending meetings. If the board is doing nothing, then what is going on during these meetings and why would almost half of a do-nothing HOA even be there (actively)?

Very curious.

What's up with that, Adam? What is it these 50 or so active members do during the meetings? What are their goals? What things do they want the HOA to work on? What questions do they have? Sounds like a ripe pool of people from whom you can pull some support from.

AdamK (Arizona)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Michele your right, the 50 or so owners don't even attend the meetings (probably shouldn't have used the word 'active'". they pay their dues, they keep their mouths shut, and they don't reap any benifit and they don't get in any trouble. to them they could care either way. whether they were brushing me off or not is one thing. I never said that they were in favor of leaving. Out of 117 lots there are probably 20 people at our meetings. and those just sit there and don't say anything during the meetings.

The meetings go as follows (obviously being brief): approve old minutes, old issues are discussed which is that the reserve fund needs more money (no reasons why, no plan, just we need more money). new issues are brought up (someone wanting a pool for the community, ha; 1 troublesome lot which gets about 5 complaints a day on and the board won't take action; and a handful of people complaining about our MC who sends violations to wrong addresses or blank violations, or violations with photos of the ground, which the MC representative says he'll get back to them on which means they will delete the violation from their records and keep sending bogus violations). board says they will discuss the issues, meeting ends. Exec meeting: MC representative uses entire time to "go over financials" pretty much line by line and preach about how we need a reserve fund. after 4 hours of sitting through nothingness, the reaminig board members want to leave and meeting is adjourned.

sad, yes very, i'll be the first to say that. nothing of any importance get's discussed let alone decided upon. I've request board meetings without the MC and i was denied. We have had the same president for 4 years because no one wanted to do it. we have had the same secretary/tresuruer/VP for the past 2 years and that's cause he was put on disability and had nothing to do. the president for a while WAS acting alone with a few randoms joining here and there so 'he knows bes'. Now we have 5 people on the board including the old president. all 5 of us seem to be very interested in the assocation however everyone is stuck in just going along with how things were done in the past. 2 of the new board members just moved in to the assocation so we shall see how long that lasts.

listen, i'm no angel by any means, and yes i'm going to be stubborn and stick to my guns on the roots issue. especially when i was told they would bring legal action against me if i did anything (AZ economy isn't the greatest so i can't go hire a lawyer to see if they can or can't).

I agree with you 100% that the people in my assocation just don't care. i'd love to re-elect board members, but no one will accept any nominations because they are all afraid of confrontation. i guess that's my reasoning for asking about dissolving the HOA. nothing is being gained from our assocation. it isn't regulating what people can or can't do to their homes, it isn't bettering the community to keep up home prices, it's just there. that's my point i guess. why have an ssociation?

Sorry this was so long, but i got sidetracked and tried to answer as many of your questions as possible.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

First off you should use the term "elect new" rather than re-elect because it sounds like you want the same old people.

Second, while I'm not an expert on AZ laws like Mary, I believe going into executive session to discus finances isn't one of the exceptions allowed by: 33-1804. Open meetings; exceptions

Third, since you've made it clear that the BOD is a bunch of paper tigers, what do you care if they threaten a lawsuit? Since they don't follow through.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Adam,

Glen is right, discussing financials in a closed session is a violation of the open meeting law. As a board member you should be knowledgeable of all state laws governing HOAs. Your manager should also be familiar with them. These statutes can be found on the AZ Legislature's website at:

www.azleg.gov

click on "legislative council" then on AZ State statutes. Scroll down to Title 10, Chapter 24 for the Nonprofit Corp Act. Then scroll down to Title 33, Chapter 9 is for Condos and Chapter 16 is for Planned Communities

The Open Meeting Law is ARS33-1248 for condos or ARS33-1804 for planned communities. There are 4 exceptions for a closed session and discussing financial statements is not one of them. The financial statement should be discussed and accepted during the open session of the board meeting. When the manager brings it up in the closed session the Pres should interrupt and say we cannot discuss that in the closed session -- end of discussion! Apparently your Pres is not familiar with state laws either.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →
⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here

Terms of Use and Privacy Statement