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NikkiT (Texas)
Posts: 30
Posted:
Hopefully someone will have an answer to this question. It has recently become a point of controversy that our HOA will loose its non-profit status because we do not have two (2) full time paid employees. We are due to refile in March 2007.

I do not find this in a copy of Texas Statues for Coroporations with statues #1396 covering non-profit corporations that I have. However, I know my copy is not current.

This supposed 'requirement' of having two full time paid employees seems rather harsh and unfair. I don't see how this could be imposed on the many small companys that have non-profit status.

Does anyone have any idea where I could find the legal information regarding a yes or no to this question?

Thanks ahead of time. Nikki T.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Nikki, I have never heard of such a thing. In Colorado the yearly corportate filing basically asked for information on the registered Agent's name and address (and the filing fee). I presume a vast majority of HOAs have no employees. We always suggest independent contractors.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Nikki, pretend you are from Missouri

next time someone says "You gotta have two employees or else..." look them straight in the eye and say "Show me."

Ain't no such requirement in any law that I know of, and i would bet my HOA dues this month they can't prove it either. There is no requirement that a profit making company or non-profit making company have ANY employees, let a lone two.
CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826
Posted:
Nikki
I had to familiarize myself with the difference between the two first. I do not understand your situation correctly, why does not having two (full time paid employees) currently make you loose your “non-profit status.” According to this article http://www.mycorporation.com/nonprofitinfo.htm an HOA is
“A Nonprofit Corporation, however, can not issue shares and cannot pay dividends.”

Maybe you or someone else can clarify this all for me, Sorry
Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.
JoeS4 (Kentucky)
Posts: 77
Posted:
look it up yourself at the irs website and I can assure you non profit has nothing to do with employees, you can have 1000 employees and still be non profit. 501 C 3 or some form of it is what you need to look at and then look up associations. Consult an attorney or CPA for advice in these matters not people that may or may not know what they are talking about

Good Luck
CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826
Posted:
Joe.

Come on now, be nice “look it up yourself!?” According to the definition I found at the online dictionary. http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861608206/employee.html

It defines an employee as, and I quote “a paid worker”. A non profit can yes have many people working together but none of which can be paid. Some churches, Salvation Armies and some HOA.

Chuck W.


Charles E. Wafer Jr.
JanM (Texas)
Posts: 142
Posted:
Your answer is in the Tx property code 204.010 #3. There is no set number on employees. We have several.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
non profits can and do have paid employees... The American Red Cross, Boy Scouts of America, etc. are all non profits, with thousands of paid employees.

a non-profit is simply any group/company/organization that is running an enterprise WITHOUT the intent to make a profit (ie, give money to shareholders, etc.). That's why they cannont have shares or pay dividends.

They can build money, charge for services, etc.. They can buy property, even invest, but they cannot pay dividends to shareholders, investors, etc..

JoeS4 (Kentucky)
Posts: 77
Posted:
There are 100's of non profit kinds and yes you can have paid employees as well as people with salaries, that has nothing to do with what a real non profit is, Look at the IRS website if you want to know what defines a 501 C 3. Please don't give out advice unless your sure you know what your talking about, and as far as what state your in you have to have approval from the IRS, and you can act as a non profit until approved or disapproved, you only have to file papers with the state informing of what status your have applied for.
JoeS4 (Kentucky)
Posts: 77
Posted:
And Charles I was being nice, I've found you'll learn a lot more if you look something up and write it down, as compared to asking someone each time you want to know something. The question we have to learn to ask is, where do I find this information.
CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826
Posted:
Brian,
I appreciate you setting me straight on that. I never thought of it that way.
Thank you once again.

I apologize to Joe and to others for my misinterpretation of a non-profit HOA.
The question that Nikki asked still remains unanswered to me. Does a non-profit HOA have to have two (2) full time paid employees? Who pays them? Does the money received from assessments pay for their services?
I don’t mean to sound ignorant by any means, it just doesn’t make sense to me.
I’m currently home on disability. So essential I could work for my HOA, If I’m to understand this correctly.

Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.
JoeS4 (Kentucky)
Posts: 77
Posted:
A home owners association may have one, two, or 100 people that work for them as deemed necessary by the board or management company. It is like any other kind of business. It just not incorporated to make money for the investors or stockholders, that is what makes it a non profit. In regards to your last question about you working for a homeowners association, I assume that whatever talents that you charge for, you can charge to anyone, it wouldn't matter who you work for unless it effects you in some other manner. These two things really don't have anything to do with each other.

1) Non profit has nothing to do with how many employees

2) Your working for whomever has nothing to do with non profits

Good Luck
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Also note, you can be a non-profit company and NOT be a 501 (C)3 company... many non profits are.

The 501 (C)3 status is a special type of non-profit that allows donations given to them to be tax deductible. It is a higher status of non profits, but many (probably most) non profits never file for it or qualify. There is little to no reason for an HOA to attempt 501(C)3 status, unless you have a wealthy benfactor who wants tax deductions for donating to you.

And before it is asked, dues, assessments and fines paid to HOAs are NOT tax deductible under IRS rules for charities, because the HOA is not a charity. It is a non-profit company, which is not equal to a charity. Said dues and fines MIGHT be deductible in some situations, consult a competent and bonded tax professional to see.

NikkiT (Texas)
Posts: 30
Posted:
Thanks for your input.

I didn't think the "non-profit" status was dependant upon the specification of having two paid full time employees. The statement didn't make sense to me.

I'll print these posting out and give your ideas to the person who made the statement to me. Yes, I'll ask them to show me where they think it states we have to have a minimum of two full time paid employees. #1. the amount of dues this HOA gets in each year would pay their salaries but not much else!

You're so right. It is a matter of know where to look to get a correct answer to questions.

Thanks so much. Nikki T.

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