Help with Fla. 720.3035

As an Arch. Comm. member I have read and re-read this but have a question for those who may have experience with this statute.

IF, IF, IF, I understand this statute it limits authority for the HOA to approve mods. to those within its docs or published guidelines. Such as materials, colors, etc.

We have a situation where an owner installed an motoriced attic roof vent without prior permission (looks like a short mushroom). NOW I realize the obvious point is the permission issue but that happens in our assoc. usually with little problem if they apply after the fact.

However this is a bit more contentious since it is on the front of the house and does not match the color of the roof tile.

So now to the crux of my question: Our docs. and/or guidelines address fences, house colors, shuters but NOT roof vents or chimneys.

Based on what I have told you thus far does the HOA have the authority to say that no roof vents (or chimneys) are allowed? As I said there is no mention of these items specifically in ANY documents.

We are having a meeting in early May and this is on the agenda. I want to make sure no one suggests that it (vent) is not allowed period because the docs are "silent" and rather us focus on placement and color issues. In other words make the owner paint to a similar color as the tiles or at the worst paint AND move to a less conspicuous location.

Thanks in advance,

Suresh

OK, Thanks Mary,
Yes I understand there is no excuse for not requesting prior approval or suggesting that it is not required or out of our authority, but the horse has left the barn. I just wanted to focus on the issue of docs. silence or similar. As I think about it it would be nearly impossible to list all mods. that is or isn't (or both) allowed.

I will suggest we focus on addressing the visuals at this point and making it less noticeable.

I am still "listening' if anyone else has any thing they wish to say.

Thanks, Suresh

As you said, nothing you have covers this, therefore it looks like to me the HOA has no authority on this. He had no reason to ask for permission. I planted a flower the other day, I didn't ask permission. Why? Its not required.



Moving it is easier said than done. It may have been placed where it is for a reason. You can "ask nicely" to paint it, but he doesn't have to. As you said, your docs don't restrict vents or their colors. If you try and "make" him do something he will want to see where in the docs it states he is required to do it.

If you want more restrictive regulations on things like vents, and such, you should look into adding it to your docs and holding a vote. But for this round, looks like he keeps his vent. Its grandfathered.

OK, I apologize for any confusion and if this changes your opinion PLEASE forgive me...(I did say "based on what I said so far" and was not hiding anything to sway opinion)

Our CCRs DO (basically) state that all mods, additions, alterations, etc. to the lot or EXTERIOR of the home MUST have prior HOA approval except in the back yard below a/the fence if one exists. So we do have authority to require permission prior to commencement. And we do have some poorly executed restriction docs regarding fences, shutters, paint colors, trees, etc.

IM NOT sure we have reason to disapprove it BECAUSE the docs are silent on vents, chimneys. Again the crux of my inquiry here.

I AM NOT suggesting that this vent be removed or am otherwise against it(I might wish to do so as well!). I do wish approval was requested though. I am trying to gain insight so as to prevent others (possibly less informed?) getting distracted and spending time and money to pursue removal or relocation based on the lack of a preexisting ARC guideline for them.

The renewable enrgy act or similar is a stretch IMO because it may save on cooling costs it does not utilize solar energy which is the heart of the act IMO. BUT I'm open minded and otherwise willing to entertain the arguments if they are made.

Sam,

IF, I were on the ARC, my reccomendation would be-#1, that you add this to the ARC guidelines asap. That requires a vote to accept a change from your BOD and perhaps your committee. Whatever it is, please add it.

#2, Ask the H.O to paint it the same color as the roof tiles. He does not have to according to what you have posted but just maybe , if you point out that he did not get permission or even apply to add it, he might just be a good guy and do it.

#3, With the Florida Energy Efficiency Act, you better guess that the H.O would go straight to that Act if you tried to deny these fans. (We have one here in Tenn and it does wonders for the house temp in summer) Preferable they should go on the rear or side roofs but that would deped on the roof structure. Are your roofs trusses?

OK, as usual I'm the last to understand.

Aside form the lack of prior permission or approval...

...you're saying (Donna) that denial is not possible (again I'm NOT for denial) because it is not specifically stated as being NOT ALLOWED, just the location, color, etc. are the only parameters the ARC could control. Coincedentally those are (in this case) the only issues I believe with it.

Sam

Peter,

As I often say----"EXACTAMONDO" If it's not dissallowed or specified in your documents, then the H.O pretty much can not be restricted. This is why HOAs must write exact restrictions following the already in place restrictive covenants. The new energy laws also must be part of allowances in the guidelines, such as solar panels and other energy saving devices.

StefeM49
I like the way you see it, because it is. Most think things have to be the way they think or want.

Peter,

Very well put and in understandable language. Kudos to you.

This Statute has answered the problem that many parts of documents all over the Country have written in them. Referring to another post which says.

"NO XXXXXXX's except with written permission of the Board" This written language in so many association documents just opens up room for arguement against an owner who is denied a request but a different Board may allow for the request. Now we have 2 different allowances for a similar request.

I think that the State of Florida must change the Statute requirement to mandate that all of the "unless approved by the Board" language be removed from governing documents. The ambiguity has caused Boards to end up in either arbritation or court probably more often than most other reasons.

The advice here is worth 100X the cost and usually sincere. If you spend some time 'googling' the subject you can find Florida condo/hoa law groups that have written blogs/newsletters/etc. saying the same but with the extra 'muscle' (credibility) which may help you convince skeptics or entrenched non-believers. Sorry I currently have none bookmarked to make your search easier.

Well said, I am familiar with a similar situation the Board denied him, he did it and prevailed in court.

Yes I'm here but... I don't know what I can say at this time. No magic bullet(s).

With regards to your questions about thier statements:

Their arguments you stated for denial(s) were as follows:

-Does not fit theme of the community; all yards should remain as the builder set them up initially.
-We are not certified in Florida as a Florida Friendly community therefore do not have to approve the request.(?????)
-Our county laws supersede the state statute.(?????)
-No one else in the community has a planting bed in the front or side of their yard as my proposal does.

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I don't know about the "theme" issue, it is ambiguous. I can tell you that [slow] change (creep) in initial appearance of your community will occur over time due to plants dying, others want to enhance appearance, and other external changes/forces such as... hurricanes (yikes!!!, to name one). Others will face this over time.

Donna can possibly speak to the "Florida friendly community" certification if it applies to landscaping... never heard of such a designation.
I thought this was about an Oak tree.

In my experience county laws WILL NOT supercede Florida statutes especially if there is a conflict.

No other proposals for landscape changes is probably due to the 'newness' of your community.

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Unfortunately there is little help in Florida from state authorities (ombudsman, etc.) except in election or recall disputes.

Best advice thus far is to chill out, gain comunity support to change or create GUIDELINES that work to your favor, organize ot change BoD at annual election, or even recall BoD.

Sorry I can't help more at this time.

PD

Oh, and I just referenced the oak tree as a very basic example. My actual proposal is an increase in planting beds and a decrease in grass.

Jennifer,

Here is a good link containing Statute and Bill numbers about Fl. Friendly landscape laws. It was signed 2 years ago by Governor Christ so this is not new stuff

http://www.floridafriendlyplants.com/Blog/post/2009/07/12/Its-the-Law!-Florida-Friendly-Landscaping-is-Legal-Everywhere.aspx"

and this one is very good----"http://www.flcommunityassociationlaw.com/2011/04/articles/articles-on-tannenbaum-scro/understanding-the-florida-friendly-landscaping-law/"

The committee is wrong in denying your application as long as you are applying to install the accepted Florida Friendly landscape practices. You cannot just wing it with a design or using materials that you think are correct but you must used approved practices. U. of Florida has developed lists of accepted plants and materials for you to follow as well.

. Please review what the new law describes as Fl. Friendly, make sure that your changes are within those guidelines and that will give you the protection of the new law to be able to prove to your committee that you fall within the restrictions of the new laws.

Florida is the reason that I became a Master Gardener. When you look under the Fl Friendly lanscapes, you will also see Florida Yards and Neighborhoods, a water management and conservation program.
Up here in Tennessee, I own the the very first yard in Tenn. to have my yard certified by the State as Water conservation Department, "Yards Done Right" program.

I could be wrong but I do not think the law applies to common properties.
Let me just give you one example: One Association – claiming friendly landscaping – planted bromeliads all over the place. In a couple of years they realized bromeliads are breeding grounds for mosquitos. So, so they yanked them all out.
Perhaps, you can mount orchids on your trees, if you can, it is quite rewarding and educational no one should object to that.

Jennifer,

Here is another place to read some info.

http://www.law.ufl.edu/conservation/pdf/florida_friendly.pdf

PS: Was trying to say, the best thing is to use some common sense and plant the right, low maintenance, shrubs and flowers that do well in your climate and soil. It takes years to learn.. My opinion, anyway.

Jen,

Did you mention planting anything in the HOA's common area? I looked at your posts and did not see it.

Jennifer,
Petunka says "First you have to amend your covenants for the Florida friendly landscaping to apply for common areas or, be enforceable. I believe.
Second, the law does not define what type of plants qualify as ‘Florida-friendly’ Makes sense to me. "

Petunka. When is the last time that you went to a good nursery other than Lowes or Home Depot?. The oush is to display and focus on FFL now.

HERE IS THE EXACT WORDING OF THE NEW STATUTES (Effective July 1, 2009) THAT REGULATES "FLORIDA-FRIENDLY LANDSCAPING":

FS 720.3075 (4)(a) The Legislature finds that the use of Florida friendly landscaping and other water use and pollution prevention measures to conserve or protect the state’s water resources serves a compelling public interest and that the participation of homeowners’ associations and local governments is essential to the state’s efforts in water conservation and water quality protection and restoration.

(b) Homeowners’ association documents, including declarations of covenants, articles of incorporation, or bylaws, may not prohibit or be enforced so as to prohibit any property owner from implementing Florida-friendly landscaping, as defined in s. 373.185(1), on his or her land or create any requirement or limitation in conflict with any provision of part II of chapter 373 or a water shortage order, other order, consumptive use permit, or rule adopted or issued pursuant to part II of chapter 373.

FS 373.185(1) (b) “Florida-friendly landscaping” means quality landscapes that conserve water, protect the environment, and are adaptable to local conditions, and which are drought tolerant. The principles of such landscaping include planting the right plant in the right place, efficient watering, appropriate fertilization, mulching, attraction of wildlife, responsible management of yard pests, recycling yard waste, reduction of stormwater runoff, and waterfront protection. Additional components include practices such as landscape planning and design, soil analysis, the appropriate use of solid waste compost, minimizing the use of irrigation and proper maintenance.

(3)(a) The Legislature finds that the use of Florida-friendly landscaping and other water use and pollution prevention measures to conserve or protect the state’s water resources serves a compelling public interest and that the participation of homeowners’ associations and local governments is essential to state’s efforts in water conservation and water quality protection and restoration.

(b) A deed restriction or covenant may not prohibit or be enforced so as to prohibit any property owner from implementing Florida-friendly landscaping on his or her land or create any requirement or limitation in conflict with any provision of part II of this chapter or a water shortage order, other order, consumptive use permit, or rule adopted or issued pursuant to part II of this chapter.

(c) A local government ordinance may not prohibit or be enforced so as to prohibit any property owner from implementing Florida-friendly landscaping on his or her land.

In order to avoid lawsuits and/or arbitration each board of administration of a Condominium or Home Owners Association should adopt Florida-friendly landscaping specifications for its association.
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New Florida landscaping law supersedes homeowner association rules

Petunka. When is the last time that you went to a good nursery other than Lowes or Home Depot?. The oush is to display and focus on FFL now.

Donna,
This is exactly what I resent about you. You assume I do not know anything about plants and you do? Do not think it is rather arrogant? If you think you are an expert just because you are a master gardener most of whom cannot even tell the difference between petunias and begonias you are quite mistaken.
Also your understanding of the Florida law is rather ‘misunderstanding’ based on most of your posts. I have nothing against you.

Miss D,
of course, I am insulting because I have no idea why you you are telling me that I do not know anything about plants and even questioning me where I am buying my plants or if I even go to a good nursery? That is perfectly ok and not insulting in your mind, I guess. Peace, I really do not care.