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GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
There have been posts recently about both rental restrictions and conforming to FHA regulations to get FHA financing and it got me thinking, so I thought I would pose the question to the group. Our CC&R’s and Ohio condo law both allow the Board to change the CC&R’s without a homeowner vote to:

5311.05 Condominium declaration.

(E)(1) Without a vote of the unit owners, the board of directors may amend the declaration in any manner necessary for any of the following purposes:

(a) To meet the requirements of institutional mortgagees, guarantors and insurers of first mortgage loans, the federal national mortgage association, the federal home loan mortgage corporation, the federal housing administration, the veterans administration, and similar institutions;

(b) To meet the requirements of insurance underwriters;

(c) To bring the declaration into compliance with this chapter;

(d) To correct clerical or typographical errors or obvious factual errors in the declaration or an exhibit to the declaration;

(e) To designate a successor to the person named to receive service of process for the unit owners association. If the association is incorporated in this state, this may be accomplished by filing with the secretary of state an appropriate change of statutory agent designation.

I know I have seen similar language in other CC&R’s and I wonder if that is enough to cap rentals and limit the number of rentals owned by any one person. What is your opinion?

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Glen,

It appears that IAW with your CCRs and OH state law, an assn BOD would definitely have the authority to amend the CCRs to limit rentals so they would be in compliance with the FHA lending requirements. Now I don't know about limiting the number of "rentals" owned by one person; but they could limit the number of "units" owned by one person.

Per the FHA Project Eligibility Requirements, "no more than 10% of the units may be owned by one investor" and "at least 50% of the units of a project must be owner-occupied or sold to owners who intend to occupy the units".

AZ has no such state law and my CCRs are silent on the subj also.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Glen,
Our condo documents do not contain anything like what you posted. I wish it did. Do you know when these covenants were included in the documents.

SC is pretty conservative and with absent ownership and the property not being cheap we often hear, things like, this is my property and I'll rent to anyone I want, and if you don't like it, sue me, or you put arental restriction on my property I'll sue you, or go away, you don't have enough to do (which means do what you want as far as it is what I want you to do.

I have always felt a condo association or an individual owner would have the mandate to insure the health of the association and one way this is done is to keep the property values at a decent level by good management, and it is a good business decision to open the property to as many mortgagors as possible. Another issue to me is: If the individual property owner wants to sell his property and the Board has disallowed probably the biggest lender in the country, they are restricting the free market place to the owner that wants to sell. It will be interesting when the housing market picks up and second home owners or investment owners find they might need some cash now and will start putting their places on the market. On one hand they will want to push the rental capability of the property and on the other they are going to find FHA won't back a mortgage for the complex. Crunch time. The application for FHA approval is demanding and strict, not to mention time consuming and will require some BOD's to toe the line, and get to work.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Glen,
Our condo documents do not contain anything like what you posted. I wish it did. Do you know when these covenants were included in the documents.

Early 2006 when we filed an amendment to our CC&R's to bring them into compliance with the changes made to ORC5311 (Ohio condo law) made in 2004.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Glen,

Interesting point of law.

I would still caution any board from changing those documents to comply with FHA guidelines without at least consulting the membership. It might be legal, but it can cause fractions within the membership. Worse, if the membership voted to not to change them and the Board chose to change them anyway (which of course would still be legal).

Tim
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 04/17/2010 2:04 PM

(a) To meet the requirements of institutional mortgagees, guarantors and insurers of first mortgage loans, the federal national mortgage association, the federal home loan mortgage corporation, the federal housing administration, the veterans administration, and similar institutions;

One other point, this is very broad language as it allows the BOD to change the documents at the whim of any institutional mortgagee. This would allow the BOD to prohibit rental properties completely if one bank required it in order to approve a mortgage. Another company could insist on reserves not allowed to drop below x amount. Another company could insist that all assessments must be payable by credit card. (yes I'm going way out on the limb but only to stress the point).

The language gives way too much power to the Board and mortgage companies and takes it away from the members.

Good? Bad? It could be both depending on the makeup of the elected boards. It would probably also have to do with which side of he issue you are on.

Tim

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
A SCENARIO FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES

Robert (and others),

You posted that you wished your Association or State had such language as Glen provided. Lets go with the scenario that your association did have this language and your board changed the CC&Rs, without a membership vote, to limit the rentals to 50%.

You are required to transfer to another state (military, job related, etc.) but you are upside down in your mortgage (owe more than it can sell for at present). You were able to find a renter, but because this would place the rental property over the 50% mark, the Board won't allow it.

Would you still be glad that the board changed the rules without membership input or approval? If your military, you can't refuse the order to move. If your private sector and your job is moving and you don't, you will lose your job. Still happy you had no vote on the changes?

People buying into property controlled by HOA's agreed to live under one set of rules when the property is purchased. Normally, if the rules change there was a membership vote on the change and it passes or fails as you agreed to. However, these rental rules were changed without your vote, consent or ability to change them back (as per the law, the board could just change them again so the Association complies with the FHA guidelines). Therefore, it could be argued that the Association, by enacting these rules, is forcing you to sell at a loss or chose to lose your job. Since you had no vote on the changes and will suffer damages isn't their potential litigation against the Association?

Tim
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Tim,

Good point. With regard to your parting question, no I do NOT think it would create potential ligation. Why? Simply because the board only did what the CCRs and perhaps what state law allows them to do. They did not do something they did not have the authority to do. Whereas it's true the members have the authority to vote on amendments to the CCRs, in most assn's the BOD also has the power to create new rules w/o a vote of the membership. Therefore, there are many rules that the members must abide by that they did not agree to when purchasing their home. The bottom line is that the members must abide by all the CCR restrictions and any other rules -- period. Just because they did not have the authority to vote for an amendment or voted against an amendment doesn't mean they have cause to bring a lawsuit against the assn. If that were the case assn's would be faced with this type litigation continually.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Tim,
I understand your service member issue. I am retired military.

Like all of us we speak from personal observations over time. Having lived here over twenty years I have an opinion OUR association would benefit if we had rental controls. We have a Rental Policy, no one pays any attention to, neither the owners or the Management. It always goes on the back burner to be addressed. So, this is my personal opinion for my condo, and since my condo is just one of millions, I suppose, I imagine there would be other condos that would benefit from rental controls. I hope I didn't indicate this is applicable for all associations. Regards the FHA new laws, it appears we are going to find out if this is going to cause disruptions in the status quo of many condos.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Mary,

I agree with you that there are many rules that can and are implemented that the members don't get to vote on. I also concur that all must abide by the CC&Rs and other rules/regulations of the Association irregardless if you agree with them or not.

Most rules of the Association doesn't cause one owner over another to suffer damages. In my scenario, similar to selective enforcement, one member suffers damages and another does not. This is why I believe a good argument could be made for the Association to reimburse the damages. I suspect that any deciding factor on the issue would be on how the ability to rent is determined by the Association (lottery, first come first served, yearly rotation, etc.).

I do know of a few Associations that have policies for rentals within the HOA and some that have policies prohibiting rentals. However, I personally do not know of any Association that has limits on how many units may be rented. For education purposes, I would love to read the language that works for them.

Tim
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Robert,

I would suspect that if your Association isn't enforcing the rental policies currently in effect, that they probably wouldn't enforce the new guidelines.

I agree that the new guidelines can cause issues for some Associations and that only time will tell. I also expect that if the guidelines do not harm condo sales, that these same guidelines will be placed on all HOAs sometime in the future. This is why I believe everyone in an Association should be paying attention on how this develops.

Tim

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Tim,

Whereas it's true a good argument may be made; I like to think a judge would side with the assn. mainly because the amendment was legally made.

IMO, just because a CCR restriction may cause a member to suffer damages does not mean the restriction is not legal. And I certainly do not view this as being the same as selective enforcement which is singling out a particular member. The amendment is not intended to apply to one member over another; in fact it may not affect any members at all!
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Tim,
Well, we have our annual meeting next weekend. Two leaving two nominations so the complexion of the Board will change somewhat, we will see what we will see.

I also agree this FHA thing is going to sneak into the HOAS somehow. I don't think many will agree with this, but, that's the way that goes, it's just what we think.

What you are proposing about the FHA observing how the condo's handle the new rules if also a pretty good guess. It seems the states have done exactly this about state statutes. Seems to be many states now actively trying to construct controls on the HOA's, and at least in SC the language is in part that contained in the Horizontal Property Act (Condos).

Just a mention that there is always something else effecting these associations, condo or HOA. We now have the Coastal Council of SC changing the set back lines along the coast. God know how this will turn out for our little island, but it is real and active right now.

Mary, you know how legislation works, is this a fair assessment?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 04/18/2010 3:44 PM
Tim,

Whereas it's true a good argument may be made; I like to think a judge would side with the assn. mainly because the amendment was legally made.

IMO, just because a CCR restriction may cause a member to suffer damages does not mean the restriction is not legal. And I certainly do not view this as being the same as selective enforcement which is singling out a particular member. The amendment is not intended to apply to one member over another; in fact it may not affect any members at all!

Mary,

legality wouldn't be the issue.

The issue would be the damages suffered and why should one member have to suffer damages when another memeber(who is allowed to rent) isn't suffering damages.

Hopefully, the scenario I proposed would never happen. I would even venture to say that the likely hood of it happening outside of a condominium complex in a vacation area would even be unlikely. However, I believe it should be considered as possible if an Association is considering limiting the numbers of renters in order to become an FHA approved development. I also believe that if the scenario did happen that litigation would be high possibility. Even if a judge might rule one way, a jury might rule another.

I do think it's a good discussion topic and hope others join in.

Tim
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
For discussion purposes I can say with some degree of accuracy that I did some case law Internet "research" a couple years ago. If I recall correctly there are many instances of Courts ruling that associations (Condo's) have the right to set rental limits. So let's say associations can set rental limits for the sake of argument. Does this mean they can have this authority based on a single reason or is there more than one justification for doing it, or would it apply to the condo down the street.
Can location of the complex have a bearing? How about state law?

It is interesting that the conditions of a uncontrolled mortgage market is in part responsible for the Housing Recession and now we have restrictions (maybe) that actually can curtail sales, which is a good thing I suppose if it rights the wrong of years past, but it also appears to create new problems for the condo associations because now they are demanding compliance, where the same requirements for the most part were already in place, they were just ignored by everyone, including the government.
MatthewM4 (Alaska)
Posts: 1
Posted:
A little off topic but you guys have me thinking about my options regarding the new"ish" FHA condo rules for lending. I was about 2 weeks away from closing and the HOA balance sheet was received with the resale certificate and showed some very troubling financial problems! on top of this our association is 18 units with one of the owners owning 2 of the units which gives them 11.11% of the units and makes the entire association ineligible for FHA financing.

I currently have a VA loan and was wondering if anyone had any crafty ideas to get financed, including but not limited to VA assumption of the loan by a qualified buyer.

Furthermore, I am thumbing through these forums to see what the feasibility of severing ties with the association is? Is this a possible option, any idea on timeline/cost to dissolve an HOA?

I live in Alaska...

thanks for any help in thiese matters!!!
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Matthew,

I believe the FHA rules do not apply to VA loans. As far as I know the VA does not have these condo rules.

If your assn is mandatory then the only way you can get out is to sell your unit. However, if it is a volunteer assn you can opt out any time you so choose.

Your CCRs should contain an article titled "termination" which would outline the procedures to terminate the assn. However, this only terminates the HOA; the corporation must also be dissolved. Normally the state nonprofit corp statutes will outline the procedure to dissolve a corp. In some areas, the city/co in which the HOA is located must approve termination of the HOA. Also, if there are common areas and/or amenities which must be maintained, buyers must be obtained otherwise each property owner will be subject to liability should an accident occur. In many assn's the common areas often consist of water retention areas which cannot be used for any other purpose so most likely cannot be sold.
DonN (Michigan)
Posts: 357
Posted:
Re: Any requirement to limit rentals to some percentage.

It seems to me that any CCR or board rule to limit rentals to some percentage is basically unfair because it treats some owners different from other owners. CCRs should uniformly apply, not only in language, but in fact. Uniformity has been identified by the courts as a fundamental value in CCR-restricted developments.

Each owner has rights to use his/her property as defined in the CCRs. The rights are compromised if the rights depend upon how other owners use their properties which is beyond the control of the owner. Should a lender for one owner be able to dictate how other owners can use their properties? I think not.

These issues apply not only to the FHA loan issues but to all other rights to use property as well. Even without the FHA loan issue, many posts on HOA Talk seek to limit percentage of rentals. Those initiatives are likely invalid.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Don,
Among other things what do you think about 55age restricted associations?

What would you suggest the rental restricted associations do? If you are condemning the associations that have rental restriction you can't very well just ignore them because they are doing it and in your opinion getting away with something. You are really saying the associations that do have rental restrictions are invalid, not the fact that the folks that post here and say there are such animals, are invalid.
DonN (Michigan)
Posts: 357
Posted:
RobertR1

I am not saying that restrictions on rental of properties are invalid per se. What I am saying is that any rental restrictions have to apply uniformly to all property units. Rental restrictions that apply in fact to some property units and not others are not uniform regardless of how they occur.

Think about it. Suppose the owners approve an amendment by less that unanimous vote that the number of rentals cannot exceed some percentage of the number of units. Which property units are eligible to rent? Which are not?

As I remember, there is some case law on the 55 year age restriction. Such a restriction could certainly pass muster as being uniform. There might be a question about age discrimination.

In my owners association, there are no restrictions on long-term rentals. All property units are granted a revocable license for short-term rentals with conditions to be met. The Association has the authority to rescind the license on a case-by-case basis if those conditions are not met. The same type of revocable license could be used for long-term rentals with conditions to be met. The conditions can ensure that the property is maintain according to prescribed standards.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Don,
In my dotage i sometimes find things are going to fast for me. I know there must be an answer to this, but it escapes me.
r
If you say rentals restriction must apply uniformly and your Board has decreed that there are no restrictions on rentals for long term, how is that uniformly if some one wants to rent short term, and you apply different conditions. And what is short term and long have to do with anything other than the preferences that were set at some point in time by people that probably don't live there anymore. If you allow all units to rent long term, what happens to the FHA requirements. Doesn't the requirements of the new FHA restrictions estblish the legality of rental restrictions, because if you are going to allow rentals and don't control them to below a certain level, then the whole complex is disqualified from participaqting in the FHA program. What are you all doing about the FHA law.
DonN (Michigan)
Posts: 357
Posted:
RobertR1

The CCRs are not required to conform to FHA regulations.

Suppose you and I live in the same CID. You apply for a FHA loan. Would that mean that I am bound by the FHA requirements when I am not a signatory to your loan?

It will be interesting if someone makes these arguments in a claim that the FHA loan requirements are discriminatory.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Don: Your....The CCRs are not required to conform to FHA regulations.
See (((((((( )))))))))) (((((Nor can the CCR's be constructed to disallow anyone's participation in a Federal Program,,,,I expect))))))))

Suppose you and I live in the same CID. You apply for a FHA loan. Would that mean that I am bound by the FHA requirements when I am not a signatory to your loan? (((((((Do you mean if I want to refinance? If my application was for the unit I live in it would have to be a re-finance or I suppose if your mortgage was paid off, could you apply for a new mortgage loan. Now that's an interesting question. I agree it does not mean you are bound by any financial arrangements I make to buy my property. I also expect you can not make any agreement that would prevent me qualifying for an FHA Loan or any other.))))))))))

It will be interesting if someone makes these arguments in a claim that the FHA loan requirements are discriminatory.
((((((((((As you know Don, all this regulatory stuff is like throwing a stone in a lake, it's makes a big splash and the water gets roiled where the stone hit, then the ripples start spreading out and go on until there is no more water.)))))))))))

Thanks for your interest and replies.......always insightful.

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