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MoeM (<Click to Select State>)
Posts: 12
Posted:
We're the first homeowners to mount a rooftop photovoltaic solar energy system in our HOA. Pix of the installation are viewable at
http://softsmart.com/SolarSystemSite/SolarSystemSite.html

Below are some system details to assist other HOAs. Remember, Amendment 37 makes systems like these financial feasible. I offer them as a proponent of taking steps as a society to rid ourselves of dependence upon middle east oil, fiefdoms, and the terrorists spawned in part by that dependence.

This is a very nice installation and shows most of the components associated with the system. This is a 24 175watt panel 4.2kw grid-tied system. The array overhangs the roof ridge by about 4-5". We extended the gutter 3" by placing 2 runs of 2x6 behind a new 1" fascia; we probably ought to have added a third. Brown flashing was custom bent by the roofers for our contractor. I may replace the stock 5" gutter with a 6" gutter with similar wavy profile. This is capture runnoff/drippage off the panels. The reason for designing the system popping over the ridge was simple: to maximize power generation. We estimate our all-electric 1800 sq ft townhome will receive 50% of its power from this system, considering our brand new efficient windows, a woodstove for main-floor heating, and attic insulation bumped to R38.

There are many ways to design PV systems. This one is known as "flush mount" even tho it's technically only parallel. Panels are raised 5.5" above the shingles w/3.5" clearance to their frames below. Plumbing vents happened to be located within any given panel's insides, and were trimmed off 3.5" above roofline; they did not require relocating. The UniRac rail system, certified in California, withstands sustained 120 mph wind, and uses 5 feet per ~22' rail run. We added 6 feet to the top and bottom rails to engineer this wind tolerance up around 140 mph estimated since we're in a very windy front range location and 2.5 stories off the ground, well exposed.

Main exterior components include an inverter (gray/blue box), a shutoff, and associated conduit (painted to match bldg exterior). A battery backup or combo system would require more/bigger electronics plus either an exterior or interior location for a bank of batteries in case the grid failed.

Our HOA provided default approval by failing to respond as per the technicalities of our Declarations requirements. Nonetheless, we worked with the architectural control committee to iron out their concerns, with one exception: "brown". Our HOA's resident senior architect is joined at the hip with brown trim exclusively. He demanded we *paint* the underside and frames of the top row of panels brown where they pop over the ridge so as to best blend, in his opinion, with the shingles. This would have voided a 25 yr OEM warranty on the $8000 worth of panels and possibly on all $24,000 worth of panels in the array. We said no and would have litigated it. We also nixxed the notion of spending an additional $1300 beyond our $17,000 out of pocket (after about $21,000 savings via Xcel rebate and IRS credit) to extend the lower roof by 9-12", which would have eliminated the ridge. We would have litigated that too, citing unreasonable aesthetic muscling and significant additional expense, citing section 2 of the state statute allowing solar installations at HOAs…all aspects of an as-yet unlitigated clause of the HOA solar statue.

A potential benefit to HOAs is reduced reroofing costs, since the roof is now shielded from elements save for 12" on either side of the array.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Moe,
Congrats on installing the photovoltaic solar energy system. My son designed and did this a few years ago. I kid him about whether it will ever pay out. Now he is building a backyard gazebo and will install panels on the south side of it as well as having panels on the south side of his roof.

One question, would you provide some financial data which justifies the payout
MoeM (<Click to Select State>)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Happily:

Remember, this analysis is specific to my location, array capacity, and financial particulars

- $20,900 in rebates and tax credits is the *only* thing that makes the remaining expenditure feasible from a pure dollar perspective
- well, another aspect is we plan to retire here. We've read that the system will increase our home value by at least $15k. Who knows what the next generation(s) of technology will do to both cost and efficiency?
- in my case I'm paying $2k outa pocket ('pocket change') and $15k from a beneficiary IRA's mandated annual distributions from 06 and 07. My calcs were based on the following:
- payback figured on the amount financed by stockmarket dollars only (not including my 'pocket change')
- $14k distribution (the market's gone up since my calcs
- less nominal taxes and sales charge to rollover into my own IRA = net $10.5k
- max predictable market return over 30 years 8% less 3% inflation
- flat electricity rates of 0.10¢/kwh (soon to be roughly 10% higher; Colorado rates increased 25% during the past 5 yrs)
- annual electricity savings due to in-home use and backfeed to/through the grid (Xcel pays us exactly what we pay them for each kw we backfeed)...based on NREL (Nat'l Renewable Energy Lab) PVWatts online engine, the industry tool used by all solar and power companies to calculate return...enter GPS location, roof tilt, nominal efficiency loss, etc and it runs monthly kwh and $ payback) ~ $575
- after 30 yrs the market bests the system by ~$45k in 2036 dollars; roughly $15k in 2006 dollars, or ~50% of a modest $30k annual retirement distribution

I think 6 months' living expenses is a very reasonable margin of error for a 3 decade span, esp considering the funky state of the world and that I don't feel confident I'll do as well as my father's generation; that energy costs will rise, shortening payback.

There are other variables:
- 25 yr array warranty
- 10 yr inverter warranty
we know panels will product w/in spec, albeit with reduced production at the outside, and we expect to have to replace the inverter midstream. today's inverter cost ~$3k.
- if the world, and grid, go to hell, it'll cost us minimum $5k to add a battery backup capacity, either including or plus selling/replacing the inverter to get a hybrid inverter...at which point we'd used the grid when it's up and be 50% self-sufficient otherwise...altho we could install some power-rolling-blackout thing that wound enable all heaters by cycling them like a rolling blackout.
- power use is based on 3 person household; our teeen will move out eventually

So if the market goes higher my solar yield will drop comparatively. Who the hell knows? But the ballpark seems to contain both scenaios and the investment makes sense to me. Plus of course we have the option to dump the saved $600/yr back into savings, something I did not factor in.
ClaudeV (Florida)
Posts: 86
Posted:
Without all the numbers....AFTER all considerations:

The dollar outlay...bottomline is$___________?

Thanks!
MoeM (<Click to Select State>)
Posts: 12
Posted:
bottom line outlay is ~$16k including some prep work, system/installation including permit fee, and for a 4.2kw system falling within Xcel's parameters to qualify for its maximum $4.5k/kw rebate.

One thing: our home is all electric. The nationally cited somewhat mythical "average" home is one that's heated via furnace. In that case a 4.2kw system could conceivably-to-easily provide 100% of the electricity used by the home.

the rebate is constant at (max) $4.5k/kw and the fed tax credit, good through 07, is $2k flat for homeowners. You can always make a differently sized system investment and run the #s for it.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
So Moe, for your home, based on assuming the considerations you gave plus an estimated 5% per year increase in electrical cost, how many years will it take for your system to pay out?

Also, is the cost cost the panels anticipated to decrease and are they becoming more effecient each year? With the government rebates I hope many who live in the sunshine states will consider adding solar voltaic.

These systems create much needed energy. However, HOAs are resistant to allowing these panels on roofs and have Covenant restrictions which their Boards believe prevent these being added. In Colorado state statutes trump most of these Covenant restrictions.
MoeM (<Click to Select State>)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Roger,

IIRC the industry talks in terms of 20 year payback—actually in terms of prebuying 20 yrs worth of power, sort of like a car except it won't depreciate. I haven't run 5%/year power increase calcs, but clearly every increase shortens payback. I ran 30 yr #s because the panels are warranteed for 25 with a longer useful life ("useful" means continued generation w/in the OEM tolerance of reduced efficiency/generation of ~20%).

Worldwide demand is off the charts, and this year alone, during our 6 month delay in proceeding, we were right at the window of locking in our 175w panel prices; the 185s would have added $2000 project cost due to inflation. Sharp is the gorilla. SunPower is the new kid, and I hear that Google founders invested in it. They claim to have increased efficiency by 50% and llikewise offer a 25 yr warranty. I was really on the fence about 4.2kw Sharps vs 5.2kw SunPowers for the same footprint, but was already locked in with a deposit on the Sharp vendor (Giam Real Goods Solar); SunPower cherry picks its vendor/installers.

We already got an anonymous complaint letter from some neighbor about the appearance. People'll come around. I'd rather look at your PV backside than keep looking at a herd of camel's backsides.
MoeM (<Click to Select State>)
Posts: 12
Posted:
btw when analysing $$ there are 2 general schemes: "free" money and working money. If you keep, and pull, the $$ from under your mattress, the only calc that matters is cost savings per yr for power alone. If your money's working in the stock market, you need to compare invested returns in either realm, solar vs market. If you pull $ from both places, you may opt to calculate accordingly. Plus factoring in the $2k fed'l tax credit and against any taxes you may have to pay if removing $ from a retirement account. Everyone's calcs will differ due to these baselines.
OrranA (New York)
Posts: 1
Posted:
I'm a student at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (upstate NY) and I'm very interested in your story. You wouldn't happen to have film coverage would you? How about a webcam?
I would like to get your story on my site to integrate with other efforts being made for a sustainable world. Perhaps you could browse my site to see if it is explicit in meaning after all I'm just starting it: www.TheSustainableShow.com

Thanks,

Orran
MoeM (<Click to Select State>)
Posts: 12
Posted:
You're welcome to snip some of the above information and assemble it into a "story" and email it back to me for approval before posting. I recently changed web hosts and took down the solar pix but I can email you the stills. No webcam or video.

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