What should I expect from our management company??

As some of you know I was elected to our board of directors almost 3 weeks ago. I have become the Treasurer and Secretary of our HOA. My impression of our MC going into this was not great, but now as a director the level of service seems even worse. I want to see what others have as expectations for their MC's. I want to know if I'm being unreasonable.

We have a new PM who took over about a month before the annual meeting. Supposedly has more experience then our last PM, but at this point he still seems clueless about our community. I emailed some questions to him early last week. It took 4 days to get any response and that was only after I called and left a message on his cell phone that I had sent him an email. Of course he answered a few questions, one he said he would have to check with the previous PM when she got back from vacation. Several other questions he told me could be answered if I came into their office and downloaded all of our communities files. So I went to the office and sat their for a half hour and down loaded the files. While there he and I looked over our financial. I asked him why there was a zero balance in one of our newly created reserve fund accounts and why our operating account seemed to have over 110% collection rate. He scratched his head and said that maybe the reserve funds were still in the operating account. Of course these funds were from a special assessment from last fall and were still in the wrong acount.

At the end of our brief meeting he informed me that it was better to call his cell phone to get a hold of him. So know I have emailed him today, called his office and cell phone for the past 2 days and have left a message on his cell phone each day. I just want to make sure that the MC's accounting department is putting our money in the right place. Do I seem unreasonable?

Zach, the type experience you have encounter happens too often. Continuity through the managing agent as Board members change with time is one thing an HOA should always try to achieve when they select a management company. As far as not responding the same day this happens when agents handle too many HOAs. Large management companies may require agents to handle 15 or more HOAs; plus they can have a problem keeping agents. One reason DARCO is very selective on the HOAs we manage is because we want to remain a small company in order to keep the same agent with each HOA for many years and to respond when contacted or if not present then within minutes or hours, not days.

Zach, It looks like you got double trouble, is all is correct.
I will assume it is and try and answer your question as posted. I I will comment only on the MC, but expect the board is part of the problem, they hired the MC.

You are a new Board member, you should appear at the MC door with no history and with expectations you can get some answers and respect. This exercise of having you download all those files is ridiculous. From my seat the MC may not know all the answers because they are new and you may not know what to ask. But, that is no reason the MC should not have the skills in the business world necessary to satisfy you that they take you serious and will try and establish a good working relationship. They failed miserable. I see no excuse for the way you were treated and they are getting paid by the Board to serve the Board. How they do this is their business, and I fall back on Roger's post that there are higher standards than what was demonstrated here. It is time for you to have a Board Discussion and get some policy about your board/MC relationships. Have you looked at their contract?

I think Daniel is probably paying for platinum service and getting bronze. He is justified in 'demanding' what his contract says. Further, a good business person returns calls and emails. He may not deliver immediate solutions, but he responds. Shame on anyone who signs a contract that says calls will be returned within 2-3 business days.

Peter, I happen to agree with you about this repsonding in three or four days. we will catch some flack for it and say that is too demanding.

But a quick little story. Homeowner chores can include plumbing repairs. I had a plumber come in and he charged so much I am ashamed I had him do the work. Forgot a kitchen sink, one handle with sprayer. Seal leaking around handle. A Moen product. I heard somewhere Moen stands behind their products and have lifetime warranty, just call 1 800 buy Moen. So I called and did the menu thing and a message comes on saying all personal are busy, etc., but then a message came on to leave your number and will will get back to you within 11 minutes, so I did. seven, eight minutes go by and Moen calls and I talk to a nice lady that says, without hesitation we will be glad to send you a free new stem for your facet. Description I gave as above, no model#, no date of purchase, just my name and address. Will be shipped within 5 days, let them know if I have trouble installing it. Two days package comes. I stumble around and can't get stem out, call Moen, wait message of 11 minutes, by five minutes I got stem out and can't put back U clip. A lady answers and walks me through stem replacement, took five minutes and I saved $90 to have plumber come back and install stem. That was his price, $90.
Moen is a pretty big Company, I will be Moen forever and apparently the company realizes the value of customer satisfaction. Incidently the plumber charged me something like $35 for each stem he replaced plus the $90. plus time. (not Moen)
The point.................there is good business and there is bad business, and I bet you that read this will seriously consider Moen.

Zack, a few years ago our MC's contract was coming up for renewal with a large fee increase and it was a pretty much done deal but the Board had a few questions about how some things had been handled so we sent them an email asking our questions. We thought the email was pretty no-confrontational basically a you did this instead of that, we'd like to know why.

They answered them quite nastily I thought, followed up by a phone call from the MC to the Board President telling her they were no longer interested in our business. So we got busy and found their replacement at a significant cost savings and changed. Then the old MC came to one of our meetings and had the nerve to ask why we didn't let them bid!!!!

Long story happy ending five years latter and still with the cheaper, excuse me I mean more cost effective MC, along with a new lawn-care company and a new attorney.

Does anybody have a Management Company that fixes dysfunctional Boards, drafts and convinces Board Members to support important resolutions or supervises and inspects construction? I'd be very surprised.

I know that Roger will show your HOA how to fill out the IRS 1120-H tax form. But I'd have to say that Roger goes above and beyond; most Management Companies will hire a tax person (at the HOA's expense).

My Management Company will ask a lawyer about legal issues for free on occasion. They won't be proactive, though; you have to ask.

My Management Company will create a proposed budget and monitor expenses. That's something, I guess.

Nearly everything else has to be done by an interested Board Member.

So Roger, when can you come to Indiana??????

Zach:

As a new Board dealing with a newly hired MC I would suggest you both need sokme time to adjust to your new positions.

The first place I would look would be reading a copy of the contract your Baord signed with the MC. This should give you some idea of what is expected and can be required of your MC or PM.

Our contract sets one Board member up as the person of contact for communication between the Board and the MC. In our case that person is the President of the Board. In the event some matter needs attention and does not consitute an emergency than that person handles the dealings with the MC.

As we do not know the nature of your questions it is impossible to determine whether they required an immdeiate response or not. In some cases hwne requesting information that can be set up so it will be provided at the next meeting not within a day or two.

I would suggest on the soprt of infoirmation you are looking for.

I would guess like most your MC and PM manage other properties and while we would all like our needs to jump to the top of the to do list that is not possible in the real world. Things happen and priorities apply.

As to the accounts you have questions about where were the Baord members in this matter? Why did they not catch this? The Board Treasurer was not watching the accounts?

Many MCs do as they are instructed by the Board. That will lead them to doing as much or in some cases as little as the Board requires.

To be frank, to expect a MC to drop everything and answer your questions alone is expecting a little to much. They did in fact meet with you, provide you with the information they had, and answer your questions to the best of their ability.

If their performance is so lacking why were they hired? What do the members of the Board have to say as far as their performance?

The MC company manages other properties with many issues arising that your more than likely will never be aware of. Keeping all those plates spinning might cause some to feel their issues were not properly addressed.

Reasonable requests should be handled reasonably.

Zach,
I probably missed this but did you mention before you run on a platform (in Part) to replace your MC?

We are talking about the same MC that made you sit and download files? Then this is a new PM you are talking to and he can't answer questions because the old PM is on vacation? Is all this right?

Now this same MC is going to take the Board to dinner. If the Boards goes to dinner and doesn't pay the fare, I think they are making a mistake that could bite them. Do they do this often? Once is enough.

Things are beginning to look awkward Zach. I bet you know more than you are telling us. That's ok, no problem there, but it does cloud the question of if you got treated fairly by the MC. And no mistake about it, it falls on the MC shoulders, they signed the contract, not the PM.

I can't tell you who to pursue, but I can give an opinion. I suspect this is not going to be easy, you are the new kid on the block. You need to consider this and make haste slowly. You also have to learn your job, learn personalities, learn your membership and BUILD SUPPORT. If you are looking to make change, baby steps and gentle pressure is normally the way to go.

We can help you get your feet on the ground and hopefully steer you clear of trouble, and if you are right in your quest, and remember you have one master.............the association........change will come.

Zach:

Just a few observations.

The new PM has a learning curve not only for your property but perhaps his job. Might be looking not to make any mistakes so therefore response time is longer than you like.

If the prior Board required little in the way of service and you and the new Board are seeking more that requires time to set new standards and relationships. Certainly this does not happen overnight. Learning a new dance with a new partner who has been dancing a different dance for years takes time.

As you ran on the platform of replacing the MC perhaps that might add to the negative aspects of your relationship with the MC? If someone made me aware their goal was to have me replaced do you think that would motivate most?

And finally, sometimes people think replacing the MC, the Board, or whatever group now exists is the simple asnwer to any problems you percieve. IMO sometimes it is better and easier to fix the problems with the same group of people rather than start all new. A new Board along with a new MC have a lot to learn and from who? I always work on problems from the finish to the beginning. That brings me to the point where I would would ask. Who will replace the current MC? Do you have any possibilities? Who will screen them to determine whether they are acceptable or not? Do you have viable options in MCs? Who will work to form this new realtionship?

My belief you don't express an opionion or desire to replace a contractor until such time as you know who will replace them and why if necessary. Sort of taints the current situation while failing to fully prepare for the future.

If the current MC is willing to meet with you and listen to your concerns but you have already decided the only solution is to replace them then what would be the point.

As Robert suggested as a new Board member perhaps you have a learning curve as to who is who, who does what, who does what well, who does what not so good, and what can be adjusted and what needs to be redone. This before you complicate an already tough job by dismissing your current MC.(Which will add to the Board's work load not doubt.)

The MC does work for the Board but as in any case if the Board demands little more than likely that is exactly what you will get.

Change can be positive but sometimes change is not the cureall for every issue.

Good luck.

Firing the MC makes you popular but, in my experience, doesn't usually accomplish anything. It's a feel-good measure.

From my perspective (c.f. MCs as secretaries, phone calls and letters above), the "boss" (Board) mismanages the "employee" (MC) then blames and fires the "employee" (MC). Sure, maybe the employee is a bum; maybe better employees are out there. But firing is the easy part and it doesn't matter if you ultimately don't get the job done (with or without a MC). The MC is an employee and a resource, not the boss.

The best HOAs have Board Members who go out and take personal responsibility to get things done. Maybe they delegate and SUPERVISE some of it to a MC but they always take total, ultimate responsibility for getting a task done. If the MC fails, they pick it up and finish it. If they have no MC, they do it all by themselves.

An appointed board member is someone in the community that the Directors have asked to be on the board. They have an equal vote on the board, but the buck stops with the elected directors.

The new PM maybe new to our community, but claims to have over 10yrs experience as being a PM. The new board and myself are only asking for standard service. If asking why our money is not in the proper accounts is asking to much, then we are in bigger trouble than I thought.

I personally told the new PM that I personally wanted to give him a chance. I thought that with a new board and a new PM that the MC might be able to keep our community. The past few weeks have left a lot to be desired.

While I understand what you are saying about fixing the problems. One of our big problems in our community is our management company. The customer service that our community members have received over the past few years from the MC has been bad to say the least. The former board claimed to never see the problem, but honestly they did not want to put in any more time than they had to. We had board members that were more about being on the board or being the president, than actually doing anything positive for the community.

I researched and received bids for new management even before I was elected to the board. Trust me when I tell you that I'm very diligent about research and have spent countless hours looking over this issue. The decision will be made by the board to hire a new company and which company to hire. We will be putting together an advisory committee of community members to help lend an opinion to the board.

Honestly there is so much to tell, but I don't have the time to rehash everything on here. Just know that our current MC has done a poor job for years, has one of the worst reputations in the entire area, has given bad advice to our former boards, has been incompetent when handling our accounts. The list goes on and on.

From what you're saying, you've already made the decision to change your MC.

Let us know if you find a good one. Then, after 1 year, let us know if you still think that you found a good one.

I don't think that changing your MC will hurt anything. It probably won't help, either, but it won't hurt.

But, you see our points by now.

To all,

Well Zack, it looks like you and I against the world.........happens.

It it is strange that we all can read the same things and come away with a different view. These folks that posted here are to be reckoned with and they do have a valid pont and there is a concern that you may be selfserving here. I can't see it, you can't fire the PM or the MC on your lonesome. And this business of hiring and firing PM and MC should be weighed carefully.

You do run the risk of the new guy on the block going off half cocked and starting to play dictator. You do need to learn your job, but I think you know that, and it certainly is possible for you to have some knowledge of whether your MC or PM are good for your association. I will suggest you attend some board meetings, get to know the other directors. Form some allies, and above all you need to read, read, read. Contracts,agreements, policies, board minutes past. And at some point know your documents better than anyone and know where your association is failing.

You need to see how this non board members got the right to vote, something odd there.

And you need to listen to what the others are saying. They really do know their stuff and if it were me, I would work with this PM and MC for a while, make some notes pro and con, then if it turns out they are ok,so much the better. Me personally, I think you are in for a long road. This will take time and patience.

Zach,
We are starting to spin our wheels here. You are a miracle if you can know the job of a association Board Member and have never been close to the job.
But I am not going to argue with that. You don't believe it.....fine with me.

Tell me Zach, when was the last time you voted in any kind of election and after the election was over the people that didn't win or didn't run or just happened to drop by voted on any decision of the elected whatever? Why did you have elections? There are two vote holders in any HOA, one is an owners vote that allows you to vote of matters before the owners. There are board votes that allow for the elected members of the Board to vote on matters before the Board. You don't believe that............fine with me. That's my opinion.............you don't have to accept it.

Zach:

I have to agree with Michelle when she suggests you came to this site for validation not information.

I will attempt to be direct.

You have served as a Board member for 3 weeks. You have yet to attend one meeting of the Board as a member but with that limited time serving you seemed to have decided all the problems with your property lie at the feet of the PM and MC. (Depending of course which of your posts we read.)

You ran on the platform of removing the MC. But then you suggest perhaps they might remain. Perhaps you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

If the MC has performed poorly that is the fault of the former Board and ALL of its members. As to this reserve account money not being in the right account that you find so troublesome WHY did the Board not move the money to where they wanted it? As President I have online access to all of our accounts with the ability to move money or withdraw money as I se fit along with the Treasurer.
In our case this big issue could have been resolved within a few minutes. Not requiring the removal of the MC.

I had to laugh when you proudly proclaimed how you plan to put together a committe to do a search for your new MC. ( if in fact that is now the plan) A group of digruntled property owners with zero knowledge of what is required or desired in a MC to basically make a choice about something they know nothing about. ( The common call of those who don't want to make any decisions on their own for fear of having to shoulder the blame when it turns out bad " Lets forma a committte!) Whether with one person or many when those involved know little IMO nothing positive should be expected. You gather a group of folks with no knowledge and expect them to lead the way. Now thats a plan with little chance of success.

And your detailing how YOU did a search for a new MC (while not yet being certain if the current MC needs to go or not)under what authority did you do that? How did you justify yourself representing a property to prospective service providers when you were not then holding a position enabling you to do so? IMO you seriously overstepped your boundaries. How did you represent yourself in these discussions? As a possible future Board member. Maybe?
IMO Way out of line.

IMO You had no right or authority to speak for the property in this matter or any other.

And in your mind with just 3 WEEKS in the job YOU now understand what in required and needed from an MC. Zach you think way to much of yourself and your abilities in this regard.

By now your are probably beginning to get defensive and perhaps questioning my opinions and their validity. Let me help you along there. I have served on our Board for 24 YEARS. Member, Treasurer, Secretary, and now President. Next year will be 25 YEARS or 1/4 century of service. I have hired, and fired MCs. For you to suggest after 3 weeks you have ANY of the necessary knowledge to now set the course for the future of your property is a joke.

21 stinking days and suddenly you now know it all.IMPOSSIBLE.

You have yet to attend ONE Board meeting. Doesn't that sound just a little like you know it all????

I would suggest you ease off on the gas pedal and take some serious time to learn your job before the self proclamation about how well you can now do it.

IMO this site is a resource from which some can learn. It serves no purpose for you. You already know it all. You have found who to blame, who needs to go, and who will find their replacements. I would suggest the solutions are NOT as simple as you might think. And IMO opinion YOUR intentions will not solve your problems but only complicate them.

But then again how can you compare 3 weeks versus 24 years.

If you know it ALL then what do I know?

Several folks have offered their opinions and suggestions I would guess ALL have more knowledge than you. But you really don't want to hear them. You never really came here for that.

I wish your property good luck. Only in your world does there exist a job that can be mastered in just three weeks. Certainly, not in mine.

This will be MY last post to this topic I for one have better things to do with my time.