Signs

It would depend on the wording of your sign restriction.

Ours is pretty specific.

A "military support" sign would not be allowed in our development and we would advise the resident via a courtesy reminder of the CC&Rs to remove it.

If not removed, we would begin fines.

The only signs allowed in our development:

sale of lot
security system on premises
political signs for specific candidates and/or propositions no more than 30 days prior to election date, and to be removed within 2 days after.

Anything else, whether military support, support for the library, local school support, yard sale, church bake sale/fish fry, roofing company that replaced the roof, all would be subject to the sign CC&R and would need to be removed.

Just curious, why would someone think a "military support" sign should be exempt?

Greg

This isn't America, it's HOA. Same rules do not apply.

Glen that was my whole reason for asking the question because I understand how gray the sign issue is. I found this forum and thought this had to have come up before with an HOA and wondered it was dealt with. I was wondering what the legal aspect would be to put in certain allowances for signs. Out HOA has signage rules that allow nothing but for sale signage basically. The lady that responded earlier has provisions for political signs so I don't see why a provision in our C&R's couldn't be written in.

Greg,

We actually limit the size of signs and currently only allow:

For sale signs (one)
For rent Signs (one)
Security signs (two - one front, one rear)
Political signs (State Law).

We have had support our troop signs but they were placed in the window of the residence and not on the front yard. Therefore, past practice has been to ignore them.

How large is the sign in question? What if it was on his vehicle or in the window? Perhaps a compromise can be made. Perhaps time to revisit this issue and propose new guidelines.

Depending on the Associations wording of the issue, they would probably win in a legal battle. However, the public relations associated with such a battle could hurt the community for awhile.

Tim

Greg,
Just a thought. First I wonder if you can control what people put inside their units. We have pretty strict rules similar to what is posted but I don't know how a judge would look at this individual issue.

More important, I wonder if this member is feeling left out of the community. Sounds like he is being asked/made to give an awful lot. I don't know his reasons for putting the sign up and maybe you do, since you talked to him. Maybe a few neighbors could get together and offer some support to his family while he is gone. Another thing we are looking into on our gated community is to to host some kind of special "Armed Forces Day," still in planning stage but it will probably happen. We are fairly close to Parris Island and Air Station. The town of Beaufort, SC is wonderfully supportive of our Military and the Military supports the town events and Hosts Blue Angels, etc.

I don't know the answer to your problem but it seems it may be, in some ways, a neighborhood problem.

Political signs, in the COURSE OF AN ELECTION (which is why the sign must be limited to candidates running or issues up for vote), as someone mentioned above, often cannot be controlled by HOA or even city or other locality sign restrictions.

But the "I Support (insert advocacy here)" signs can be.

The point is, the homeowner agreed to the restriction when he/she took title of the deed to which the CC&Rs are tied.

So, like it or not, such a sign cannot be displayed.

If you have CC&Rs, you must accept the fact that you cannot make everyone happy. You will not even be able to make a lot of people happy some of the time.

But you must protect the integrity of the documents and you must enforce once a violation is formally confirmed, even ones that seem "petty." (as was mentioned, if "support the troops" is "okay," then how could one deny a "support your local KKK" -- I know it's not likely, but. .. one never knows . . .

But more importantly, this isn't just about the topic of one sign.

If you do not enforce this rule, you risk eroding the integrity of your governing documents and you risk "selective enforcement" eroding your ability to enforce for more critical violations.

Opps, I meant to add:

The bolded part of your quote in my reply above is actually a good thing, in my opinion.

We find this happens a lot and we welcome it.

In our HOA, the board does not "police" the neighborhood for violations.

We rely on notifications of alleged violations from the homeowners.

This means, obviously, that we may not be aware of a variety of violations.

When someone gets a violation notice, they become our "policing arm." They THINK that by doing so they are getting back at us somehow!

But it really does help to catch those violations that may slip through the cracks without an otherwise "dedicated" inspector!

By the way, an off-topic comment on the "support the troops" signs, or any other signs or bumper stickers or whatever anyway:

Do people who put those types of signs up really think that they are the only ones who "support" the troops (or whatever) or that suddenly people will go, "wow, what a neat person! He supports the troops! Wish I could support the troops!"

Do the "troops" really think that because someone doesn't have a sign like that in their yard (or on their car), that they don't support them?

In fact, many friends of mine who are in the military find such displays rather anemic.

It's easy to put a sign up, it's much harder to actually move to concrete action of some kind that will directly communicate to a specific troop member (or many for that matter) that one supports him or her. And when one does that, does one really need to call attention to oneself and brag about it?

Sorry for the off-topic musing, but it seems a little bit arrogant to me to put such signs in ones yard. But that's just me.

Michele,

We do enforce the rules and just like you do not police the neighborhood. We rely on neighbors feedback to let us know what's going on. The problem I have is that I am on the Board. The first time I saw the sign, I hoped one of my neighbors would let him know that there was a rule about putting signs out. Well a week after, someone sent in a complaint, I then went talk to him. I let him know I was talking to him as a neighbor and explained to him the rules about signs. He did not agree nor was he happy but said he understood. He took the sign down for a couple of weeks and then it appeared in his yard again. He told me that his Commanding officer who lives down the street from us was being sent back over seas and that he put the sign back up. He said what ever happens, happens. Another complaint came in for the sign by the same person that sent the first one so I know we must enforce the rule. I am in a situation where I must enforce the rules as a Board member for the integrity of the neighborhood and maintain a good relationship with my neighbors.

Greg,
Apparently none of my suggestions earns merit so let me add this. You are not in a hard place, your Board may be. As Tim, I am retired Military and retired in 68 so I know some of what he talks about. But if the Board is going to enforce this sign, and that is up to the Board, then, doesn't this gentleman have a right to know who complained about the sign and face his accuser. I think we just had a thread about that recently. Now the Board can say they are just doing what is in the documents, but at this stage they would be hard pressed to deny there was a complaint issued, and until then, wasn't it ignored?
I would make attempts to mend fences, and the above is a lot of Devils Advocate.

Tim, as one of those Vietnam-era vets (I was US Army Security Agency, Asian-language-trained intercept operator), I, too, was actually spat on in an airport while in uniform heading home for some R&R, which was such a shock to me, especially since I'm female. I knew about how some of my male counterparts were treated, I just (naively) figured that a female soldier would be treated differently. Ever since then, I NEVER left post in uniform if I could help it.

I completely understand and know full well and first hand all that those of us from that era had to endure.

It was a couple decades before one could comfortably be able even to tell people that, in fact, you ever were even in the military.

My point is very much like yours, that today everyone, including the troops, know that bell weather has significantly changed.

I have a close relative who was served during the "clean up" in Bosnia. That entailed standing duty during the mass grave excavations, etc. He was then sent to Iraq and was with one of the groups that were first on the ground in Baghdad.

He tried to explain to me one day why the displays of the yellow ribbons on the cars or signs in the yards didn't mean anything to him. Keep in mind, he's saying this through Post-traumatic Stress influenced reality right now.

He feels that it's a "bandwagon" affect. That people have this guilt for how vets and military were treated after VN, and think that all they have to do is put on a flag lapel or yellow ribbon and that will somehow make up for it all. He doesn't think they have any real clue what it means to be a soldier and what their real sacrifices are. (for the record, he and I often debate this particular point. But, again, he is speaking from a different place than even I ever had to go.)

He feels when it comes down to americans really putting teeth behind the "support" bandwagon, like making sure that vets receive the proper support after leaving the military, or that their pay while in the military be improved (so that they don't have to go on food stamps, etc), or making sure the government actually allows PTSD to be properly diagnosed, that they are MIA. He feels that's how Americans should show their support.

Anyway, I think we are both on the same page, and there is nothing at all wrong with people wanting to express their support for the troops. I especially like to be part of welcome home cheering sections when I get the chance! But if someone feels very strongly about it, there are more concrete, direct ways that would be immensely more self-satisfying than simply planting a sign in a yard.

Thanks everyone for all the input. It has been very helpful and re-assured my feelings on this matter. I would like to keep this thread alive to see if any HOA out there has addressed this issue and had any success or problems. Thanks again.

Mary,

That's kind of what I'm doing unofficially, looking around for other HOA's and what they did about this. I'm glad I found this sight because I have gotten some good advice so far from the people on here. I want to poll the members of our HOA but want to kind of know what we may be facing if we go that direction. Thanks.