Election question

Jay, I am pretty sure our resident AZ expert will weigh in and set the AZ stuff straight. Such a shame that things come to this. Nothing you have told us here is cause for all this uproar, but it happens for less. All this could be taken care of in ten minutes by adversaries that have the best interests of the association uppermost or have adopted that is the only reason for living in an HOA....the health of the association.

I am a little confused that you would get to the point of hiring an attorney to sue for slander and then ask an opinion Board like this one, whether you have conducted your Board business legally. Seems to me, this lawyer should be made privy to your actions during your tenure and let him decide if this will jeopardize your standing. The board making mistakes are normally not cause for court action and I would believe intent to mislead or reap monetary rewards or other criminal conduct, is necessary to even make a charge in a court of law.
If you lawyer says what this person wrote is liable, that is a separate issue and really has no connection with the BOD. The caveat being that you might want to get your lawyer to review the D and O insurance the association should carry and see if you have some protection under that.

By the way I am not suing for slander. I am suing for libel. Now can anyone from Arizona answer..thanks.

Thanks Mary for the reply..How you explained it is exactly how we approved it.
We do review a number at the meetings but we have a number of folks that own property that are here for a limited time( Snow Birds). Some come here for the Christmas break and have two or three weeks to get something done. Also some things are at the beck and call of contractors schedules. I can assure you the projects I speak of were very small in nature and required limited building if any at all. Myself I don't think its correct having someone wait say 30 days then a few days for the mail to be delivered to plant some flowers or build a wall. Thank you so much for the info..Matter of fact this guy is the same guy I discussed with you last may. I think I am going ahead with the Lawsuit which won't be for money but a written apology..Thats all I want. I retired after 25 years in The Army all Infantry..I have been in 20 countries. In 4 or five of them they were shooting at me and in a couple they were actually trying to kill me. I have been called many things by many folks in many different languages but I have never ever been called a liar or a crook..Which is basically what myself and the 4 other board members were called. Thats why I am not letting it go. Anyway thanks alot for the answer. I appreciate it very much.

Jay,

You're very welcome.

I think about every assn has a member such as yours. In my former assn (self-managed), where I was the treasurer, we had one couple who were the "members from Hell". The wife was a friend of mine b/4 I was elected to the board; then I became her punching bag. She called me many things, but never a liar; don't know how she missed that label! At any rate, I learned that it's best to just ignore that type of person. After awhile her invective letters dwindled to just one per year and she and her husband quit attending any meetings or social functions.

?? "Selected" a person for . . .what? Someone who had been elected to the board and the board then "selected" this person to an officer position?

Which one?

Or the board didn't have enough members and the board then "selected" (drafted) this member onto the board??



Opps. Am I detecting a whiff of libel here?

In ONE month on the board?

A "mini-dictator" based on . . . .what? (remember, if you are going to accuse someone in an open forum (and probably amongst yourselves, no doubt) of being a "mini-dictator" you may have to be able to back that up with proof if HE wants to sue to "demand an apology" too.



After. . .. when? One month? Two months? Three months? How much mini-dictator damage meetings with everyone but "God" and board business did he run amok with in the meantime?



Yeah, never mind that stuff, because he was able to . . . .do how much of that $80K in operating expenses (which you seem to be attributing to him? or am I misreading that), when it appears it was something that it didn't have anything to do with him. So why would it matter if he ran again? Are you really claiming or implying that you all saved $80K that HE would have allowed to have been spent?

Do you have proof for that, too?

Please bear with me, I'm just trying to sort out your scenario and trying to connect some dots that, quite frankly, don't seem to be connecting the way I think you mean them to connect right now. . . .



My my.



I guess Mary addressed this, but it appears that what she claims you can do in AZ OMLs and what you seem to be describing here may well be in conflict. Especially the email stuff. But I'm not really going to comment on that since that's closer to her area of expertise, and we really don't know how honestly self-revealing you are regarding what you really did and what you THINK you did and when or how. When people tell their side of the story, it's generally with a much prettier blush than actually is on the rose.

And yes, I realize I do it, too. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, it's simply human nature.



And if the Property folks' other clients jumped off the roof, I guess... well, nevermind, I think you know where I'm going with that.

Keep in mind the PMs aren't your legal advisors, they make money off of you.



Hmmm... getting that "libel" whiff again, "moron," "singled out."

I guess you can prove that he's a "moron" and that the other guy was "singled out." I mean, you DID say so in an open forum.



Again, I think Mary addressed this, but from what I can gather, they "type" of approval, or whether input from neighbors would be required is less critical for OMLs than the idea of the quorum and such.



Opps. There's that name-calling "libel" potential that you surely can prove, right? (King dolt)



Personally, I think this is a wise move, if a member feels there may be potential trouble. Sometimes meetings like that can get very contentious.


Well, as bright and as knowledgeable as Mary is about AZ laws, she is not an attorney, she does not know the ACTUAL details of what went down, only the version that you have told her, which may or may not reflect reality.

Even so, this forum is no place to try to obtain cheap legal advice. And that's basically what you are trying to do.

You got pissed about the mean ole letter, so went running off to an attorney, whom you admit has no experience in HOA law or business, and yet he can tell you that the letter is malicious and libelous, without knowing if what the allegations that apparently are in the letter run counter HOA law.

But you don't want to spring a few dollars on a REAL face-to-face AZ HOA-knowledgeable attorney, who could or might even show you what you MAY have done wrong and how to prevent it in the future.

Instead, you want to sue for an apology.

But you want to be sure (from people on a far-away board who don't know a thing about your situation other than what you have said) before you do that???

Something isn't adding up.



So, did he actually use those WORDS? "Liar" "crook"?

I mean, I'm just asking because if not, then I don't see what he put in the letter as a whole lot different from how you have characterized him here in this post. Except you also added a sort of megalomanical slant to it by actually calling him outright a "mini-dictator" and then asserted that he had limited mental facilities by calling him outright a "moron."

The bottom line is that I hope you can get some legitimate feedback in the PROPER PLACE regarding what and how your operations may or may not have met AZ OML requirements.

To me that seems to be the first and most important point of order.

It may not SEEM to you like it's fair to make someone wait 30 days for planting flowers or building a wall, or that "snow birds" have to be inconvenienced, etc etc, but if the timing in AZ is such that that is the only way that AZ OMLs are properly supported, then your HOA better make sure all the homeowners are fully aware of how their personal timelines need to be adjust so that the HOA remains on the right side of the HOA laws.

I think you just needed to unload some of the bile that has built up in you over this and you came to this board to help with the release, because, again, at the risk of being redundant, you have to know you will not and can not get the answer you want from this board.

And if you did. If an AZ attorney somehow out of the blue dropped into this thread and said, "yes, you are doing okay," then I would run as far away from that advice as possible. No legitimate attorney will give out advice (free or otherwise) like that based on what you've shared today.

Bite the bullet.

Scrape your pennies together and get the proper legal opinion. Stop shopping it around to other HOAs and online forums.

You will never find the answer to your specific situation and needs that way.

Best of luck to you.

But I would recommend that you step back and be very careful how you continue to characterize this man when you are discussing him with anyone at any time in any format, especially if it ends up in writing, like here.

By the way the sheriff deal? Since it was not a public meeting... it was a private meeting.. the only one that can request a sheriff is the board itself. I don't know what you know about AZ law but that's how it is. The officer that responded was very upset over being called when he found out it was a HOA meeting. But again thanks for your knowledgeable reply.

MichelleD, That is a darl'in little man sticking his finger in his eye, whereever did you find him Honeychil? Is he/she a super spy? I would just adore to have one of my own, but if he/she is signifying the end of this thread, or maybe a thumbs up for Jay hiring a lawyer, I second the motion.

JayM7 - While I'd be curious if you broke protocol and your attorney's response to that is worth seeking, you are suing because of a libelous letter. You should proceed but do so against the individual not the association. The letter was written before he got on the Board. While the letter is Association related it was written by one and proving the outcome of the letter election was affected by the letter is a hard if not impossible thing.

Well Jim and Michele I only have a few things to say to you two blithering idiots..if it is your intent to come on these places just to flame and troll around..you two are the champs. Michele your comments were worthless if you have such an elite regard for yourself, that you actually thought they were meaningful again'..thanks for playing..Jimmy boy you are just the typical Board flaming troll. Now run along and change your depends.

Oh, where is Jim on this posting.............wrong again Jay.