CharlesR5 (Texas)
Posts: 28
Posts: 28
Posted:
has anyone heard of an Amended Homeowner's Association-Management Certificate ? if so when and how can it be used
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management certificate
Started by CharlesR5 • 20 replies • 2825 views
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RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Charles,
I gogled it just like you posted it.Lot of stuff came up, except I left out the - .
I gogled it just like you posted it.Lot of stuff came up, except I left out the - .
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
I suspect it is a Texas thing, if you find out let us know.
CharlesR5 (Texas)
Posts: 28
Posts: 28
Posted:
i don't know if it is just a texas thing,but our HOA board has changed rules and regulations without posting they were going to do it and without the 900 members being able to vote on it
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
CharlesR5,
Have no idea what this has to do with 900 members that can't Google this subject. Have no idea what this has to do with your Boards action.
Below is the # of the Bill in the Texas Legislation Laws...I think. The Bill HB2394 was named the Amended Homeowner's Association-Management Certificate. It is now SB 1919. I think that is what this says. Some discussions I run across say this is a crappy bill.
We really need some Texas expert to explain this.
*******************************************************
(The House considered SB 1919 by West, the Senate companion bill, in lieu of HB 2394,
the House version of the bill, which had been set on the daily calendar and was analyzed
by the House Research Organization. The bill subsequently was enacted as SB 1919.)(The House considered SB 1919 by West, the Senate companion bill, in lieu of HB 2394,
the House version of the bill, which had been set on the daily calendar and was analyzed
by the House Research Organization. The bill subsequently was enacted as SB 1919.)(The House considered SB 1919 by West, the Senate companion bill, in lieu of HB 2394,
the House version of the bill, which had been set on the daily calendar and was analyzed
by the House Research Organization. The bill subsequently was enacted as SB 1919.)
Have no idea what this has to do with 900 members that can't Google this subject. Have no idea what this has to do with your Boards action.
Below is the # of the Bill in the Texas Legislation Laws...I think. The Bill HB2394 was named the Amended Homeowner's Association-Management Certificate. It is now SB 1919. I think that is what this says. Some discussions I run across say this is a crappy bill.
We really need some Texas expert to explain this.
*******************************************************
(The House considered SB 1919 by West, the Senate companion bill, in lieu of HB 2394,
the House version of the bill, which had been set on the daily calendar and was analyzed
by the House Research Organization. The bill subsequently was enacted as SB 1919.)(The House considered SB 1919 by West, the Senate companion bill, in lieu of HB 2394,
the House version of the bill, which had been set on the daily calendar and was analyzed
by the House Research Organization. The bill subsequently was enacted as SB 1919.)(The House considered SB 1919 by West, the Senate companion bill, in lieu of HB 2394,
the House version of the bill, which had been set on the daily calendar and was analyzed
by the House Research Organization. The bill subsequently was enacted as SB 1919.)
CharlesR5 (Texas)
Posts: 28
Posts: 28
Posted:
what they have done is use the amended homeowner's association-management certificate to change HOA rules and regulation and not notify the 900 members that it has been done.we understand that any changes to the bylaws require a vote of the super majority to change it not some form
LynetteB (Texas)
Posts: 141
Posts: 141
Posted:
Charles,
I found a Sec. 209.004 MANAGEMENT CERTIFICATES in the Property Code Chapter 209. Texas Residential Property Owners Protection Act.
Not sure if this is what you are looking for though.
I found a Sec. 209.004 MANAGEMENT CERTIFICATES in the Property Code Chapter 209. Texas Residential Property Owners Protection Act.
Not sure if this is what you are looking for though.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Charles if it is anything like the last revision to O.R.C. 5311 passed in 2004 the bill itself may give the BOD the power to amend the documents without a homeowner vote to bring them into compliance with the applicable law. The Board would still have to pass the amendment, file it with the county and give a copy to all of the homeowners. Look for language similar to this in the bill (which must have passed and been enacted into law): The Board may amend the Declaration without a vote of the owners in any manner necessary for the following purposes:
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CharlesR5 on 03/26/2010 2:57 PM
has anyone heard of an Amended Homeowner's Association-Management Certificate ? if so when and how can it be used
has anyone heard of an Amended Homeowner's Association-Management Certificate ? if so when and how can it be used
Charles,
I'm not from TX and this is based on my research only.
Per TX Property Code 209.004 - HOA's must notify the State/County whenever there is a change to the following:
(1) the name of the subdivision;
(2) the name of the association;
(3) the recording data for the subdivision;
(4) the recording data for the declaration;
(5) the mailing address of the association or the name and mailing address of the person managing the association; and
(6) other information the association considers appropriate.
In 2009, Senator West introduced SB 1919 which was signed into law and became effective on 9/1/2009. In general the bill strengthened the reporting process. The text of the bill can be found here.
Tim
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CharlesR5 on 03/26/2010 7:51 PM
what they have done is use the amended homeowner's association-management certificate to change HOA rules and regulation and not notify the 900 members that it has been done.we understand that any changes to the bylaws require a vote of the super majority to change it not some form
what they have done is use the amended homeowner's association-management certificate to change HOA rules and regulation and not notify the 900 members that it has been done.we understand that any changes to the bylaws require a vote of the super majority to change it not some form
Charles,
The certificate is a reporting of the changed rules, documents, etc., to the county and It does not grant your Board permission to change the rules. Your BOD still need to follow any requirements outlined in your Associations governing documents relating to adopting or amending those documents or guidelines.
Is it possible that the rules were changed in the past and they are just now getting around to publishing them?
Tim
CharlesR5 (Texas)
Posts: 28
Posts: 28
Posted:
tim,
these changes have NEVER been brought to the attention of the 900 property owners.here are the changes they made and filed with the county clerk :
(1) the current annual assessment for maintenance and operations is ninety-five (95) dollars per lot owned. the deed restriction say if you own multiple lots each other lot has a reduced HOA fee for all lots over one (1)
(2) the current fee for transferring property to a new owner is fifty (50) dollars. our deed restriction or HOA rules make no provision about this NEW rule.
(3) no manufactured home other then NEW will be permitted to come into the subdivision, new being defined as not previously occupied and must be manufactured in the year of the request of a permit. the deed restrictions allow mobile/manufactured homes ,but says nothing about the age or if it has to be NEW.
this was filed with the county clerks office by the office mgr of the HOA and was signed and executed by her also. we DO NOT have a management company running our HOA. we have a board and a office mgr ( that is just a title). doesn't something of this nature require at least the signature of the board members or the board president , and no just the "office" mgr?
these changes have NEVER been brought to the attention of the 900 property owners.here are the changes they made and filed with the county clerk :
(1) the current annual assessment for maintenance and operations is ninety-five (95) dollars per lot owned. the deed restriction say if you own multiple lots each other lot has a reduced HOA fee for all lots over one (1)
(2) the current fee for transferring property to a new owner is fifty (50) dollars. our deed restriction or HOA rules make no provision about this NEW rule.
(3) no manufactured home other then NEW will be permitted to come into the subdivision, new being defined as not previously occupied and must be manufactured in the year of the request of a permit. the deed restrictions allow mobile/manufactured homes ,but says nothing about the age or if it has to be NEW.
this was filed with the county clerks office by the office mgr of the HOA and was signed and executed by her also. we DO NOT have a management company running our HOA. we have a board and a office mgr ( that is just a title). doesn't something of this nature require at least the signature of the board members or the board president , and no just the "office" mgr?
CharlesR5 (Texas)
Posts: 28
Posts: 28
Posted:
lynetteb,
what area of texas is your HOA, mine is in granbury
what area of texas is your HOA, mine is in granbury
CharlesR5 (Texas)
Posts: 28
Posts: 28
Posted:
glenl,
i understand that state and federal laws will always over-ride an HOA rules, but these have nothing to do with any county, state or federal laws.these changes were found out by accident, none of the other 900 property owners were aware the changes had been made. if you look at one of my postings to another person in here i list what they changed
i understand that state and federal laws will always over-ride an HOA rules, but these have nothing to do with any county, state or federal laws.these changes were found out by accident, none of the other 900 property owners were aware the changes had been made. if you look at one of my postings to another person in here i list what they changed
LynetteB (Texas)
Posts: 141
Posts: 141
Posted:
Charles,
I am Granbury as well. [email protected]
I am Granbury as well. [email protected]
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Charles,
I don't see where Tim or Glen don't understand what the problem is. I think they both agree and I concur, with a caveat that your governing documents should be carefully searched to make positive that these amendments were made improper. Sometimes when you amend documents and register them there is a law or a section of your documents that is quoted and references the law for the change. Does the courthouse documents give any reference to any of this, or does it reference in the first page of your amendment notice that is included in you documents.
For someone to circumvent the law in a 900 unit HOA is way out there, especially if they have a management company or a lawyer on call. If a lawyer is involved, I would take baby steps handling this. It just doesn't ring right...........but surely it happens everyday.
Since Tim and Glen are up front here I bow to what they would recommend you do and how to do it, if they wish to venture this much.
I don't see where Tim or Glen don't understand what the problem is. I think they both agree and I concur, with a caveat that your governing documents should be carefully searched to make positive that these amendments were made improper. Sometimes when you amend documents and register them there is a law or a section of your documents that is quoted and references the law for the change. Does the courthouse documents give any reference to any of this, or does it reference in the first page of your amendment notice that is included in you documents.
For someone to circumvent the law in a 900 unit HOA is way out there, especially if they have a management company or a lawyer on call. If a lawyer is involved, I would take baby steps handling this. It just doesn't ring right...........but surely it happens everyday.
Since Tim and Glen are up front here I bow to what they would recommend you do and how to do it, if they wish to venture this much.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Charles,
Check your CCRs for a provision that allows the BOD to adopt rules and regulations. These are board-adopted rules and do not require a vote of the members. If these are the rules they have amended they have done so legally. However, if they have amended the CCRs w/o a vote of the membership then that amendment has not been made legally. The bylaws will state whether or not they require a vote of the membership to be amended -- some assns do, some can be amended by a vote of the BOD only.
Check your CCRs for a provision that allows the BOD to adopt rules and regulations. These are board-adopted rules and do not require a vote of the members. If these are the rules they have amended they have done so legally. However, if they have amended the CCRs w/o a vote of the membership then that amendment has not been made legally. The bylaws will state whether or not they require a vote of the membership to be amended -- some assns do, some can be amended by a vote of the BOD only.
CharlesR5 (Texas)
Posts: 28
Posts: 28
Posted:
just for curiousity sake which HOA do you belong to ? and are you finding as much problem with your board as most HOA's are having
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CharlesR5 on 03/27/2010 1:56 PM
just for curiousity sake which HOA do you belong to ? and are you finding as much problem with your board as most HOA's are having
just for curiousity sake which HOA do you belong to ? and are you finding as much problem with your board as most HOA's are having
Charles,
It would be very helpful if you addressed your question to the person you are asking it to. I, for one, am not much good at reading minds.
Thx!!
LynetteB (Texas)
Posts: 141
Posts: 141
Posted:
Charles,
If you are speaking to me as I assume, I am at the Lakes at Timber Cove. I am the Pres of our Board, so naturally I would so no to your question, but I am sure you could find a member or two who have problems with our Board. Most likely those who don't pay dues promptly or those who complain about others following rules when they are the biggest rule breaker.
Every POA has their issues at one time or other. I wouldn't say that MOST have problems with their board.
If you like, you can email me. I will be glad to offer any references I have, go over your docs with you, give you any insight to our boards way of thinking or just be a sounding board. Becoming part of an HOA is the most frustrating thing I have ever gone through, and I have two young children so that is saying a lot, but I decided to get involved and educate myself, and I think things are getting better.
If you are speaking to me as I assume, I am at the Lakes at Timber Cove. I am the Pres of our Board, so naturally I would so no to your question, but I am sure you could find a member or two who have problems with our Board. Most likely those who don't pay dues promptly or those who complain about others following rules when they are the biggest rule breaker.
Every POA has their issues at one time or other. I wouldn't say that MOST have problems with their board.
If you like, you can email me. I will be glad to offer any references I have, go over your docs with you, give you any insight to our boards way of thinking or just be a sounding board. Becoming part of an HOA is the most frustrating thing I have ever gone through, and I have two young children so that is saying a lot, but I decided to get involved and educate myself, and I think things are getting better.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Lynette, I think you are close to the money with your evaluation of HOAs. I don't see most owners having board problems. There was a study out not long ago that implied that 90% of all HOA members are happy with their lot. I can't buy that either because I think that about 80% of the homeowners don't care enough to find out if they got something to bitch about. Also, for sure, without the 10% that care enough to help run the train nearly all the HOA's would fall into dust.
Your's is lucky to have you, I sincerely hope you get some help. If you don't your kids will probably come out of middle school with a degree in Community Management.
Your's is lucky to have you, I sincerely hope you get some help. If you don't your kids will probably come out of middle school with a degree in Community Management.
LynetteB (Texas)
Posts: 141
Posts: 141
Posted:
Why thank you Robert. My kids already have a good handle on running things. They are 4 and 7 and are always the first to volunteer to do any work. The kids and I are the only ones to show up to the last community work day and we got a bunch of stuff done.
Sorry to get off topic. I'm a proud mom!
Sorry to get off topic. I'm a proud mom!
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