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RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
At last night's board meeting, the board announced they had a appointed a new board member to replace a board that maybe resigned.

My question, isn't there some procedure they need to follow, like make a motion and vote or something? Since September 2009, there has been no vote at a Open Board Meeting, all the voting appears to be done in Executive Session. My understand is that you discuss in Executive Session and vote in Open Session, unless it is of disciplinary action.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Richard,

It could have been an action without a meeting. Which should be noted in the minutes, and looks like it was per your posting. If the action was legal or not would depend on State laws and your governing documents.

Tim
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 03/19/2010 2:54 AM
Richard,

It could have been an action without a meeting. Which should be noted in the minutes, and looks like it was per your posting. If the action was legal or not would depend on State laws and your governing documents.

Tim

I pulled the below from davis-stirling.com. It appears that they really don't have to conduct board meetings if they don't want to or do things. It appears this is what they have been doing since last September, but the problem is that the required document is not filed with the minutes or any mention of the action. Should I just ask to inspect all the minutes and action without meetings from September?

Board Action Without a Meeting
Unanimous Written Consent. As provided for in Corp. Code §7211(b), any action required or permitted to be taken by the board may be taken without a meeting, if all members of the board individually or collectively consent in writing to that action. The written consent must be filed with the board's minutes.

A unanimous written consent does not violate the Open Meeting Act since the action does not qualify as a "meeting" as defined by the Act, i.e., any congregation of a majority of the members of the board at the same time and place to hear, discuss, or deliberate upon any item of business scheduled to be heard by the board.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Richard,

Why not start by asking what procedure was followed to appoint this new board member. If they state it was an action w/o a meeting procedure then you can ask why no mention was made at the meeting? And, you can ask to see a copy of the action that was signed by all the board members. It could be that they all agreed by email which, IMO, would be a violation of the CA open meeting statute. Just like AZ's open meeting law, when a majority of the board "meets" to discuss assn business it is considered a meeting and must be properly noticed. In AZ this applies whether any board business is conducted or votes taken -- just a majority meeting to discuss assn business is the key.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 03/19/2010 11:37 AM
Richard,

Why not start by asking what procedure was followed to appoint this new board member. If they state it was an action w/o a meeting procedure then you can ask why no mention was made at the meeting? And, you can ask to see a copy of the action that was signed by all the board members. It could be that they all agreed by email which, IMO, would be a violation of the CA open meeting statute. Just like AZ's open meeting law, when a majority of the board "meets" to discuss assn business it is considered a meeting and must be properly noticed. In AZ this applies whether any board business is conducted or votes taken -- just a majority meeting to discuss assn business is the key.

There was a reference about 10 minutes into last night meeting "oh by the way, so and so is now a new board member", but nothing was mentioned as to how the process came about. I have an interest because I ran for the board last November when an attorney abruptly canceled the meeting and election. I am waiting to speak to the Board Member who resigned. The person they appointed will have to run for election in two months according to our Bylaws, they are appointed until the next annual or special meeting, which we will have in June/July to pass new Bylaws.

The management company has the Bylaws vote all wrong as they stated at last night's meeting to pass the new, restated bylaws requires only a 51% quorum. I hope you can now see our frustration with the board and PM. Their motto is to either bend, skirt or break the law.
HB (Oregon)
Posts: 143
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 03/19/2010 1:03 PM
Posted By MaryA1 on 03/19/2010 11:37 AM

There was a reference about 10 minutes into last night meeting "oh by the way, so and so is now a new board member", but nothing was mentioned as to how the process came about. I have an interest because I ran for the board last November when an attorney abruptly canceled the meeting and election. I am waiting to speak to the Board Member who resigned. The person they appointed will have to run for election in two months according to our Bylaws, they are appointed until the next annual or special meeting, which we will have in June/July to pass new Bylaws.

The management company has the Bylaws vote all wrong as they stated at last night's meeting to pass the new, restated bylaws requires only a 51% quorum. I hope you can now see our frustration with the board and PM. Their motto is to either bend, skirt or break the law.

Hi Richard,

That is pretty much how it is done, as I understand it. In our HOA, if someone resigns or is not able to serve, the remaining Board appoints someone at the next meeting. By "appoint" I mean the current Board has someone in mind or asks if anyone wants to serve and then chooses them. Nothing special happens. From what I know, the Board is not required to ask the members for nominees or volunteers. They can choose whoever they want, and viola it is so.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
So as I see it then, if you have a high quorum requirement to get elected, the board or management company in power can pretty much keep their non- friends off.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Richard,

I doubt the quorum requirements were designed to allow the board to keep their "non-friends" off the board. They were designed to allow a majority, or more, of the members to make the decisions instead of just a few. I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't like it if less than 20 members, out of a membership of over 1700 in my HOA, could change the CCR restrictions.

From what you have posted about your board, it appears they do not operate in the best interests of the assn. However changing quorum and voting requirements is not going to change that. Only a recall can do that! IMO, you should concentrate your efforts on removing these board members instead of changing the quorum and voting requirements of the bylaws. I think I've mentioned earlier that allowing mail-in ballots could be a step in the right direction to ensuring a quorum. This is now the law in AZ and it has been quite effective. The mail-in ballot counts toward the quorum.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 03/21/2010 7:54 AM
Richard,

I doubt the quorum requirements were designed to allow the board to keep their "non-friends" off the board. They were designed to allow a majority, or more, of the members to make the decisions instead of just a few. I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't like it if less than 20 members, out of a membership of over 1700 in my HOA, could change the CCR restrictions.

From what you have posted about your board, it appears they do not operate in the best interests of the assn. However changing quorum and voting requirements is not going to change that. Only a recall can do that! IMO, you should concentrate your efforts on removing these board members instead of changing the quorum and voting requirements of the bylaws. I think I've mentioned earlier that allowing mail-in ballots could be a step in the right direction to ensuring a quorum. This is now the law in AZ and it has been quite effective. The mail-in ballot counts toward the quorum.

Mary

Right now if one of their friends wants on the board, or they want to keep someone else off, or simply control the board, it take but a total of 3 votes (theirs)to accomplish that. If on the other hand, someone wanted to get elected to the board according to the governing docs, first would require a quorum of 159 homeowners, then a majority of the persons casting secret ballots. We have not made quorum in over 6 years and all the ballots that have been cast over that period of time have remained unopened. Last November, we received 39 ballots, or so they say. That was the highest in 6 years.

Now the community is in the process of updating our Bylaws. The Board's goal, as they stated numerous times to the community was to realistically meet quorum requirements. I got a first draft back from the attorney that the board made their recommendations to and they reduced the percentage for quorum to 1/3 or 106.

The committee in charge of amending the Bylaws will make the recommendation to eliminate quorum altogether for any meeting of the members. To elect directors would require the majority of the secret ballot cast. Proxies and cumulative will also be eliminated. We will also hold town hall meeting to explain the reasoning behind the changes. Eliminating quorum by no means eliminates the 51% and 67% vote approval to change the Bylaws and CCR's, it only guaranteers that votes cast will be opened and counted from now on. It also takes certain interpretation out of the mix.

By making these changes and following election code based on the Davis-Stirling Act the people that want to be involved will have their voices heard. Changing law still should be of a higher threshold.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
BTW

Our quorum language for any meeting of Members (Annual or Special) would be that a quorum is represented by Members present. This then would insure that any other business that needs to be discussed, budget, IRS ruling and approving the past years meeting can be handled in a timely matter.
DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482
Posted:
I think that cumulative voting is an "inalienable right" in California. I don't think that it can be eliminated. You should check that out.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
In November 2008 we were in the process of holding our Annual Meeting and Elections. The ballots were3 already sent out with the two directors up for election. No other homeowners chose to run. Before the meeting in November he was told be one of the board members told him that his term up and he needed to retired. So he did.

Quorum was not reached and they went to a second meeting and that didn't reach quorum so they decided to call it a day. In March 2009 they appointed a replacement. The million dollar question is should the newly appointed board member's position have been elected upon at the next annual meeting in November being that they was no official election in November 2008? Below is our bylaw regarding vacancies.

Section 6.4.1 of Bylaws
Vacancies on the Board of Directors, except for a vacancy created by the removal of a director, may be filled by a majority vote of the remaining directors, though less than a quorum, or by a sole remaining director, and each director so elected shall hold office until his successor is elected at an annual or a special meeting of the Members. A vacancy created by the removal of a director by the Members may only be filled after obtaining the vote of a majority of the Members, excluding the vote of the Declarant.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DanielH1 on 03/25/2010 2:33 PM
I think that cumulative voting is an "inalienable right" in California. I don't think that it can be eliminated. You should check that out.

From Civil Code 1363.03....An association shall allow for cumulative voting using the secret ballot procedures provided in this section, if cumulative voting is provided for in the governing documents.

Cumulative voting was put into place to insure that the developer/declarant always remained in power while they were in control of the development. Do the math, it always works to the benefit of the developer and keep them in control of the majority of the board. The developer always gets three vote per unit to the homeowners one.
DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482
Posted:
I guess that cumulative voting is not a right unless specified. Sorry for the inconvenience.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Richard,

Note that Civil Code only provides for cumulative voting if so provided for in the gov docs.

If the developer gets 3 votes for each unsold lot he doesn't need cumulative voting to ensure that his people get on the board. When his 3 votes no longer ensure that he has a majority vote it will be time for transition, after which he won't care who is on the board as he will no longer be in control.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DanielH1 on 03/25/2010 3:09 PM
I guess that cumulative voting is not a right unless specified. Sorry for the inconvenience.

No problem..I have a one up on you as I have had to do a mountain of research.
DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482
Posted:
As I understood it, cumulative voting was a way for a minority to have a better chance of getting a Board Member elected to represent them, even though they are a minority.

For example, with 3 open Board positions and 6 candidates, an owner could use cumulative voting to cast 3 votes for 1 candidate, rather than having to cast 1 vote per open position.

Cumulative voting seems to punish the developer rather than favor him. There's less chance of a clean sweep and more chance of the rest of the HOA getting one Board Member. Multiple votes per lot seems like an entirely different issue than cumulative voting.

But perhaps I'm not seeing something.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DanielH1 on 03/25/2010 3:37 PM
As I understood it, cumulative voting was a way for a minority to have a better chance of getting a Board Member elected to represent them, even though they are a minority.

For example, with 3 open Board positions and 6 candidates, an owner could use cumulative voting to cast 3 votes for 1 candidate, rather than having to cast 1 vote per open position.

Cumulative voting seems to punish the developer rather than favor him. There's less chance of a clean sweep and more chance of the rest of the HOA getting one Board Member. Multiple votes per lot seems like an entirely different issue than cumulative voting.

But perhaps I'm not seeing something.

If you had three positions open, the developer would have 9 votes per unit, 3 per unit X 3 cumulative voting. No matter how you look at it the developer was guaranteed to win two seats and from the previous election at least one, so they always maintained 3 of the 5 positions until the project was built out.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Richard given the apathy your HOA has shown in past elections do you think that they can come up with the 159 for quorum to hold the special meeting and the 159 yes votes required to change the By-Laws?

Also while it does state in section 6.4.1 of your By-Laws:
Vacancies on the Board of Directors, except for a vacancy created by the removal of a director, may be filled by a majority vote of the remaining directors, though less than a quorum, or by a sole remaining director, and each director so elected shall hold office until his successor is elected at an annual or a special meeting of the Members. A vacancy on the Board of Directors created by the removal of a director by the Members may only be filled after obtaining the vote of a majority of the Members, excluding the vote of the Declarant.

I would interpret this as a special meeting specifically called for this purpose not a special meeting called for another purpose such as amending the By-Laws. As I interpret D-S the meeting can be used for no other purpose that for the reason it was called and noticed for so if you want to vote on this issue also then it needs to be in the notice and agenda.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 03/25/2010 10:21 PM
Richard given the apathy your HOA has shown in past elections do you think that they can come up with the 159 for quorum to hold the special meeting and the 159 yes votes required to change the By-Laws?

Also while it does state in section 6.4.1 of your By-Laws:
Vacancies on the Board of Directors, except for a vacancy created by the removal of a director, may be filled by a majority vote of the remaining directors, though less than a quorum, or by a sole remaining director, and each director so elected shall hold office until his successor is elected at an annual or a special meeting of the Members. A vacancy on the Board of Directors created by the removal of a director by the Members may only be filled after obtaining the vote of a majority of the Members, excluding the vote of the Declarant.

I would interpret this as a special meeting specifically called for this purpose not a special meeting called for another purpose such as amending the By-Laws. As I interpret D-S the meeting can be used for no other purpose that for the reason it was called and noticed for so if you want to vote on this issue also then it needs to be in the notice and agenda.

Glen,

Would you interpret that a person appointed would only serve until the next annual meeting or special or serve the unexpired term of the person who resigned. Actually, the person who resigned was never elected.

Actually the board is amending this to now say that the person appointed is to fill the unexpired term. So I think they interpret as having to be elected at the next annual or special meeting.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Glen

WE have a plan to get the 159 quorum and 162 yes votes if the management company gives us the proxies. If not...well we might be in court fighting this.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 03/25/2010 11:45 PM

Glen,

Would you interpret that a person appointed would only serve until the next annual meeting or special or serve the unexpired term of the person who resigned. Actually, the person who resigned was never elected.

Actually the board is amending this to now say that the person appointed is to fill the unexpired term. So I think they interpret as having to be elected at the next annual or special meeting.

Richard I would interpret it to mean that the person would serve until the next annual meeting or a special meeting called for that purpose. I was responding to your statement: “The person they appointed will have to run for election in two months according to our Bylaws, they are appointed until the next annual or special meeting, which we will have in June/July to pass new Bylaws.” I was just reminding you that if it isn’t in the agenda it can’t happen.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Glen,

That is what I got from it also. The language in the amended Bylaws states "Each director elected or appointed to fill a vacancy shall hold office for the remainder of the unexpired term of such director's predecessor.

Our problem is we have had no director elected in over 6 years and there is no provision in the Bylaws for election by acclamation.

If you remember we had a special meeting in January that no one showed up for. Just found out that the meeting date should not have been set for a legal holiday, as no meeting date, board, special or annual can be scheduled on a legal holiday. I know it's water under the bridge.

As far as getting the quorum for the special meeting, if it happens, we have organized block captains responsible for going door to door to get the vote out. I have also recruited bilingual homeowners to cover our diverse community. We'll be successful if the management company doesn't put a road block in front of us.

DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482
Posted:
Cumulative voting doesn't prevent majorities from being majorities. It is meant to help (no, not require, only help) minorities have a better chance to have one representative, instead of zero.

In your example, multiple votes per unit is the problem, not cumulative voting.

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