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GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
We have an ongoing issue here and thought this forum might add some insight or answers.

1. In 2005, the then BOD entered into a notarized agreement with a HomeOwner who also owned the adjacent undeveloped Lot. The agreement allowed the HomeOwner to not pay Annual Assessments on the undeveloped adjacent Lot unless/until the Lot was sold or a dwelling was erected on that Lot. He would give up his vote tied to that Lot. No lien was ever placed on the Lot...just this notarized document.

2. In 2009, the HomeOwner transferred title of the undeveloped Lot to a Finance Company through which he had taken a loan and used the property as collateral. The HomeOwner did not notify the HOA of the sale nor did he pay the back Assessments 2005/2006/2007/2008.

3. The new Lot Owner paid the 2009 Assessments, but not the back Assessments.

Here is where this gets even better....

Now the new Lot Owner wants to develop the Lot. After many calls and meetings, the plans proposed complied with our CCR's. However, due to the topography of the Lot, it needed to go before the city Board of Zoning Appeals for variances due to stream buffer setbacks.

When the subdivision was originally platted, our city did not exist. We were an unincorporated portion of another city. In 2006, we became our own new city. The stream buffer setbacks were increased by the new city from 25 feet to 25/50 and 75 feet setbacks. The city determined that under its guidelines, they would not grant the variances necessary to allow development on this Lot.

4. The new Lot Owner is delinquent on 2010 Assessment and says that since this Lot is unbuildable, he will not pay.

One of the many questions the present BOD is discussing:
1. Did the 2005 have the authority to enter into that initial agreement postponing payment of Assessments?
IMHO, I don't see anything anywhere in our CCR's giving the BOD authority to waiver anything for any reason.

2. Can the BOD enter into another agreement with the new Lot Owner absolving him from the past dues in exchange for an agreement to hold the HOA harmless if he chooses to move forward with any legal action against the city pertaining to developing the Lot?

This issue gets more convoluted each day. I'd appreciate new eyes and new opinions on this. I think we have a mess ahead of us...

Gloria
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
Attorney at Law
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Sounds like the "agreement" was played out as planned, and the new owner did pay the 09 fees.

I wonder about the "unbuildableness" of the lot. Is it TOTALLY unbuildable or only for what the owner wants to do with it? Around here, people have a fit because they can't build the huge mansion they want, yet they CAN build on it. So they can't get the variances that they want.

I can't see how the HOa would be involved in the owner's case against the municipality, but you never know.

Yes, get a real estate lawyer.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Gloria,

I doubt the CCRs allow the board to waive assessments for anyone, for any reason. The CCRs should also state whether undeveloped lots are subject to assessments. The BOD must adhere to what is stated in the CCRs. If that means no waivers and owners of undeveloped lots are subject to payment of assessments, so be it. What happened in the past is in the past and should not be repeated if it was in violation of the CCRs. Let this new owner know what the CCRs say and also let them know that if they do not pay the delinquent assessments in full then the board will take all the steps in place for collection which may result in foreclosure on the lot.
GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 02/20/2010 8:14 AM
Gloria,

I doubt the CCRs allow the board to waive assessments for anyone, for any reason. The CCRs should also state whether undeveloped lots are subject to assessments. The BOD must adhere to what is stated in the CCRs. If that means no waivers and owners of undeveloped lots are subject to payment of assessments, so be it. What happened in the past is in the past and should not be repeated if it was in violation of the CCRs. Let this new owner know what the CCRs say and also let them know that if they do not pay the delinquent assessments in full then the board will take all the steps in place for collection which may result in foreclosure on the lot.

Mary,

I agree with you on your points.
1. I doubt the CCRs allow the board to waive assessments for anyone, for any reason.
Reality, they did. IMHO, I believe that agreement is void and the back assessments are owed. Who pays? The former owners (due to this personal probably invalid agreement), or the current owners (title search turned up nothing as no lien was filed...do assessments run with the Lot?)

2. The BOD must adhere to what is stated in the CCRs.
I have combed over the CCR's. Nothing anywhere about waivers. All Lots to be assessed uniformly (does not differentiate between developed or undeveloped...)

3. What happened in the past is in the past and should not be repeated if it was in violation of the CCRs.
Our CCR's address enforcement "...Failure by the Association, the BOD, or by any Owner to enforce any covenant or restriction herein contained shall in no event be deemed a waiver of the right to do so thereafter."
I agree that we would be creating another invalid agreement to follow the first invalid agreement.
Thus, IMHO, we can try to get the back assessments...again from whom? Current of former owner?

Our contact yesterday with the paralegal at our attorney's office stated since the BOD has the authority to impose assessments, it "inheritently" has the authority to absolve assessments. I could accept that quick comment IF the absolution applied to ALL HO's equally. I pressed that they put that in writing. We have yet to see that materialize.

Three BOD Member's want to issue an absolution of the past debt to the new owner in exchange for a document holding the HOA & BOD harmless IF he moves ahead with a legal suit against the town who has denied his building variances. They are fearful that the HOA may run up $$$ legal fees defending itself.
I do not agree.
Unless our attorney can absolutely state where the BOD has the authority to grant that absolution, I will vote against it.
Unless our attorney can absolutely state where the BOD has the authority to grant a waiver for past assessments, I will vote that also.

I keep getting told that the BOD is chasing a $1,500 debt and it could cost the HOA more than $3,000 to collect. Why should it cost the HOA anything? It should be costing the delinquent Lot owner, not the HOA.

Also, the new Lot Owner is now delinquent on 2010 dues. He says if the Lot is unbuildable, he won't pay. Our CCR's just address all Lots, not distinquishing between developed, undeveloped or UNBUILDABLE. Remember, when the subdivision was platted, ALL Lots were buildable.

In June 2009, a demand letter was sent to the new Owners for payment of back assessments and a lien was placed on the property AT THAT TIME. Our legal advice said that a new lien need not be placed for delinquent 2010 assessments as a lien is already in place for 2005/2006/2007 & 2008.

Can you all follow this mess???

HelenK1 (Washington)
Posts: 68
Posted:
The new owner won't pay the dues if the lot is unbuildable Seriously can you blame him? If the association can be held liable in any way for not having that information available for the new owner, then I think your getting off cheap waiving the dues.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 9:54 AM
Posted By MaryA1 on 02/20/2010 8:14 AM
Gloria,

I doubt the CCRs allow the board to waive assessments for anyone, for any reason. The CCRs should also state whether undeveloped lots are subject to assessments. The BOD must adhere to what is stated in the CCRs. If that means no waivers and owners of undeveloped lots are subject to payment of assessments, so be it. What happened in the past is in the past and should not be repeated if it was in violation of the CCRs. Let this new owner know what the CCRs say and also let them know that if they do not pay the delinquent assessments in full then the board will take all the steps in place for collection which may result in foreclosure on the lot.


Mary,

I agree with you on your points.
1. I doubt the CCRs allow the board to waive assessments for anyone, for any reason.
Reality, they did. IMHO, I believe that agreement is void and the back assessments are owed. Who pays? The former owners (due to this personal probably invalid agreement), or the current owners (title search turned up nothing as no lien was filed...do assessments run with the Lot?)

2. The BOD must adhere to what is stated in the CCRs.
I have combed over the CCR's. Nothing anywhere about waivers. All Lots to be assessed uniformly (does not differentiate between developed or undeveloped...)

3. What happened in the past is in the past and should not be repeated if it was in violation of the CCRs.
Our CCR's address enforcement "...Failure by the Association, the BOD, or by any Owner to enforce any covenant or restriction herein contained shall in no event be deemed a waiver of the right to do so thereafter."
I agree that we would be creating another invalid agreement to follow the first invalid agreement.
Thus, IMHO, we can try to get the back assessments...again from whom? Current of former owner?

Our contact yesterday with the paralegal at our attorney's office stated since the BOD has the authority to impose assessments, it "inheritently" has the authority to absolve assessments. I could accept that quick comment IF the absolution applied to ALL HO's equally. I pressed that they put that in writing. We have yet to see that materialize.

Three BOD Member's want to issue an absolution of the past debt to the new owner in exchange for a document holding the HOA & BOD harmless IF he moves ahead with a legal suit against the town who has denied his building variances. They are fearful that the HOA may run up $$$ legal fees defending itself.
I do not agree.
Unless our attorney can absolutely state where the BOD has the authority to grant that absolution, I will vote against it.
Unless our attorney can absolutely state where the BOD has the authority to grant a waiver for past assessments, I will vote that also.

I keep getting told that the BOD is chasing a $1,500 debt and it could cost the HOA more than $3,000 to collect. Why should it cost the HOA anything? It should be costing the delinquent Lot owner, not the HOA.

Also, the new Lot Owner is now delinquent on 2010 dues. He says if the Lot is unbuildable, he won't pay. Our CCR's just address all Lots, not distinquishing between developed, undeveloped or UNBUILDABLE. Remember, when the subdivision was platted, ALL Lots were buildable.

In June 2009, a demand letter was sent to the new Owners for payment of back assessments and a lien was placed on the property AT THAT TIME. Our legal advice said that a new lien need not be placed for delinquent 2010 assessments as a lien is already in place for 2005/2006/2007 & 2008.

Can you all follow this mess???


Gloria,

The former owners are gone. If the board waived the assessments for them they can't now say they owe them and they most certainly cannot pass them on to the new owner. Forget about what the board did with the former owners. That is over and done with; just make certain they don't do it again.

I would never take the word of a paralegal as authority. If the CCRs say the all lots are assessed uniformly that means whether they are improved or unimproved lots they are assessed. Also if the CCRs do not say the BOD has the authority to grant a waiver for assessments,then they cannot.

The current owners must be treated the same as any other delinquent owner. However, I don't believe the BOD should have placed a lien for the assessments there were not paid by the former owner. Remember a waiver was granted to the former owner, so how can the board think they can collect from the new owner. No need for an absolution because the new owner should not be billed for assessments owed by the former owner -- again remeber the waiver that was granted. Don't worry about a lawsuit the new owner MAY enter into with the City. The HOA has nothing to do with determining whether or not the lot is buildable and the lot was not sold by the HOA so I can't see what they would have to do with a lawsuit.

Bottom line, the board needs to forget about the assessments they now say are owed by the former member. Just write that off as a big mistake and make certain it never happens again. As I said b/4, it's over and done with.

HelenK1 (Washington)
Posts: 68
Posted:
The lot may not have been sold by the association but it is a part of the asssociation An association that is actively trying to collect dues on it. Is it resonable for someone to assume that when they buy a lot in an HOA that it is buildable? The government has now declared this unit uninhabitable. Is it resonable for the HOA to try to collect dues on an uninhabitable unit?
GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
The HOA had nothing to do with the sale of the Lot. The new owner never contacted the HOA like all other closing attorneys have done to get an update of any outstanding debts owed to the HOA. The new owner also never contacted the HOA with plans when he was going to build to see if he met all our CCR criteria. The HOA learned months after the Lot changed ownership when the first building plans were before the city Zoning Board of Appeals, that the Lot had sold. The BOD asked with the Zoning Board of Appeals to postpone vote on the proposed plans because they did NOT conform to CCRs.

After the new owner modified the building plans to conform with our CCRs, the HOA BOD attended the Zoning Board of Appeals in favor of the city variance because we had no reason to deny.

I believe that the old owners owe the back dues, but since no lien was placed on the Lot, we won't collect without filing a suit in small claims court. $$$$$$. Lesson learned and uncollectable bad debt.

I believe that the new owner cannot be held to pay those dues, but I hesitate to grant a variance since I don't believe the BOD has that authority.

I believe that we should lien the new owner for the delinquent 2010 dues.

I believe the new owner took title in 2009 and must pay from that point forward...again no lien existed when he took title..just that notarized agreement.

As far as being "uninhabitable" and the HOA being responsible for selling an "uninhabitable" Lot, I believe that is an issue the new owner has with the city who placed new stricter setbacks YEARS after the subdivision had been legally platted. All Lots were buildable then.

Also, the new owner must accept responsibility for not doing diligence before taking title.
He never contacted the HOA for fees or debts.
He never contacted the HOA for CCRs.
He never contacted the city for setbacks and building restrictions.
He told me he thought he was getting a deal...a building Lot valued at $125,0000 in exchange for a $50,000 debt. Sounds like greed bit him in the butt.

As it stands at the moment, we are awaiting legal advice from our attorney's office. As the paralegal was told that we want in writing that the BOD has authority to waive back assessements, we are tossing around empty ideas. I believe that the present BOD should not try to right a previous wrong done by engaging in another wrong document.

oh boy, oh boy, oh boy....

GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
Another point to add:

The para was asked to place a lien for delinquent 2010 Dues to the new owner of the Lot. The BOD was told that since he was liened for the 2005-2008 dues (remember he didn't own the Lot then), we could not put another lien for 2010. The lien would cover all monies owed to the HOA. The total $ owed would be calculated at the time the lien is satisfied.

My thinking then is, why give the new owner a letter of absolution for 2005-2008? When/if the lien comes to be satisfied, can't we just calculate from 2010 going forward? By doing that (again in my fuzzy thinking), we are not holding him to the debt which occurred before he took title yet we are also not granting a written waiver of back assessments.

I am against putting in writing something for which I believe the BOD has no authority to do (waiver). I believe that is what got us into this situation in the first place.

Gloria
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Gloria right or wrong the former BOD entered into a contract with the former landowner in good faith. If you have any cause of action to collect the waived assessments IMO it would be against the former BOD and if you had D&O insurance at the time it would now be obligated to step in and defend the former BOD. You want them to hold the HOA harmless in a lawsuit against the city yet you seem determined to force a lawsuit of some kind with the HOA involved. I know you don’t think its fair and want to take a stand on principle but the best you can hope for is a pyrrhic victory. As others have advised use this as a learning experience and move on.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Please cnfirm your terms: first you say unbuildable then you say uninhabitable.

Unbuildbable may mean that he can't build what HE wants, but something else CAN be built there. Like a smaller footprint of the house.

GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 02/20/2010 4:34 PM
Gloria right or wrong the former BOD entered into a contract with the former landowner in good faith. If you have any cause of action to collect the waived assessments IMO it would be against the former BOD and if you had D&O insurance at the time it would now be obligated to step in and defend the former BOD. You want them to hold the HOA harmless in a lawsuit against the city yet you seem determined to force a lawsuit of some kind with the HOA involved. I know you don’t think its fair and want to take a stand on principle but the best you can hope for is a pyrrhic victory. As others have advised use this as a learning experience and move on.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I am not seeking to take a stand on principle without the HOA obtaining any monetary compensation justly due it.

I do believe the former BOD acted in good faith, although without authority. Our D&O insurance should protect the BOD if any challenges arise on that point. No malfeasance existed in the agreement on the BOD's part.

The former owners are ignoring their agreement and not paying what is due. It seems that the only course of action to collect would be a small claims suit. After getting an estimate of cost from our attorney, I don't support going forward with that ($$ spent versus $$ possibly collected). I believe it is a learning experience and a CCR lesson learned. GET LEGAL ADVICE FIRST before writing anything!

I DO believe that the HOA should be held harmless if a lawsuit is initiated with the city. The HOA did not change the stream buffer setbacks causing the need for a variance from the Zoning Board of Appeals or the Lot to be "unbuildable". The CCRs do not dictate placement of the dwelling. Due to stream buffers being increased from 25 ft to 75 ft, almost all of the Lot now falls within the buffer zones. The HOA did not make that change occur.

I do believe that dues are owed by the new owner. He bought a legally platted Lot. The CCRs do not differeniate between developed, undeveloped or anything else. There are two other Lots in the subdivision which remain undeveloped and are assessed uniformly. They may also be affected by the new city setbacks, but again the HOA has no control over that. Those Lots are current on the dues owed to the HOA.

I guess the point I get stuck on is the BOD giving a written waiver of the back dues to the new owner. GET LEGAL ADVICE FIRST before writing anything! I don't believe that the BOD has the authority to grant waivers. I would prefer to just lien the 2010 delinquent dues and be silent on the back dues (let them fall by the wayside into extinction).

Another point of clarification, 2009 our attorney sent demand letters for payment of the back dues to BOTH the new owner and the former owner of the Lot (I guess hoping either one of them might pay up). However, they placed a lien against the new owner on the Lot since they couldn't lien the former owners because they no longer owned the property. That is why the attorney is stating that we do not need to place another lien for 2010 delinquent dues on the new owner since a lien is already in place.

Just another wrinkle in this saga.

Gloria

GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 02/20/2010 5:05 PM
Please cnfirm your terms: first you say unbuildable then you say uninhabitable.

Unbuildbable may mean that he can't build what HE wants, but something else CAN be built there. Like a smaller footprint of the house.


The Lot is approximately 1.25 acres with streams crisscrossing and dissecting it. Now that the buffer zones have been increased from 25' to 75', the land available for the house footprint, septic fields and reserve septic fields shrinks dramatically.

The CCRs require 3,000 sq ft, 3 car side entry garage and cement driveway. The new owner was able to accomplish these requirements by placing the house in the back extreme corner of the Lot, against the side and rear setbacks, just 20 feet from the Lot line. The BOD did not oppose placement because our CCRs are silent. The side and rear setbacks are city requirements. No matter what the size of the house, the only placement is in that same extreme corner and would still require multiple stream buffer encroachment variances.

The HOA has not changed any requirements for construction from when this Lot was originally platted and buildable. The city has.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HelenK1 on 02/20/2010 3:02 PM
The lot may not have been sold by the association but it is a part of the asssociation An association that is actively trying to collect dues on it. Is it resonable for someone to assume that when they buy a lot in an HOA that it is buildable? The government has now declared this unit uninhabitable. Is it resonable for the HOA to try to collect dues on an uninhabitable unit?

First, if the covenants state that all lots are to be assessed $XXX per year, developed or undeveloped (or even no mention of developed or undeveloped at all, just "lot"), then the new owner is contractually obligated to pay that assessment.

It makes no difference what "agreement" (notarized or not) that a previous owner had, or even if that was a legal waiver.

This owner is the current legal deed holder and is the one with whom the association has the contract for the assessment obligation. Period.

But, as mentioned above, the only real recourse would be to obtain solid, local legal advice.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 3:41 PM
I believe that the old owners owe the back dues, but since no lien was placed on the Lot, we won't collect without filing a suit in small claims court. $$$$$$. Lesson learned and uncollectable bad debt.

You are correct. Write it off.

Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 3:41 PM
I believe that the new owner cannot be held to pay those dues, but I hesitate to grant a variance since I don't believe the BOD has that authority.

What "variance" would have to be granted? The new owner did not own the property when the dues were not paid, the new owner is not responsible for them.

Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 3:41 PM
I believe that we should lien the new owner for the delinquent 2010 dues.

Yes. Completely. Extinguish the previous lien and file one for the 2010 assessments only.

Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 3:41 PM
I believe the new owner took title in 2009 and must pay from that point forward...again no lien existed when he took title..just that notarized agreement.
The "notarized agreement" has nothing whatsoever to do with the new owner. It's unenforceable on either party. Let it go.

HelenK1 (Washington)
Posts: 68
Posted:
uninhabtable- (unfit to live in) Since the lot is unbuildable (can't build something to live in on it) unless the HOA agrees to let him pitch a tent or park an RV, the lot is uninhabitable. I believe the question of whether a he's just trying to build a house that's too big has been answered by the original poster.Just because whoever wrote the CCr's did not have the forsight to imagine this would ever happen doesn't mean this is not an issue. The bottom line is what could the HOA possibbly have to gain by pursuing this all the way and forclosing on the property. Can they sell the lot knowing what they now know and hope to gain a new buyer that will pay the dues? NO. Will they have to pay property taxes on this unbuildable lot that they now own? YES Is there any type of loan or first lien on the property that will have to be paid? Maybe. And let's not forget all the attorney fees. So what the BOD has now done is taken a lot that was producing NO INCOME and turned it into a lot that is an EXPENSE to the HOA Try explaining that to the rest of the HOA. If it was me I would just leave the guy alone and wait to see if he actually can win his fight with the city and acomplish getting something built on the property. If he does then there is something of value to go after. If he doesn't well at least he is paying the property taxes
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Gloria,
Do you know if the current owner is contesting the set back lines? If there is a court case pending or an appeal, you might be able to enter into that issue as an interested party.........if that helps...any of the parties. It could be if this is contested the judge makes a ruling and this may be to the HOA's interest and maybe something can be done. Also, has the tax assessment been changed on this lot?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Gloria,

IMO, you are right on target with your thinking. Now all you have to do is convince the board that you know what you're talking about!

The BOD should release the lien they've placed which includes assessments owed by the previous owner and place a new lien for only the assessments owed by the new owner (only from the date he purchased the property).

Apparently the BOD hasn't learned their lesson about giving waivers. Shame, shame. Make certain you state your objection, and that it's recorded in the minutes, if and when a vote is taken to grant a waiver to the new owner for back dues. This is the stupidist thing I've ever heard -- the new owner is NOT liable for those back dues.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Mary,
You may be right, the new owner is not liable to back arrears. But I wonder if when the property was sold there was an effort to clear the title and if there was a lien or notice of indebtedness against the old, filed or on record somewhere. I suppose it is possible the old owner and the new owner made some kind of agreement to assign those debts in order to clear the property and get the deal done. I don't know if this could happen or not, I have heard of stranger things. If so, at this point, unless that sort of thing can be verified, the HOA should stick with what they can get and forget it. It does appear this is a mess and getting worse and now the HOA and the city/town have interests in the property.
What happens to property if it does become unbuildable (no buildings at all). Is all property under control (dues assessed at equal amount)only include building lots? I would think that would be done when Master Plat was laid out, and any other property would come under HOA's. What would happen if the developer that holds commercial property decides he doesn't want to use it for commercial?
I suppose he could apply to county for variance to change it to residential but that would require public hearing and all kinds of problems. I suppose he could give it to the HOA or sell it to anyone as commercial. Do you know.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Robert,

I believe the OP stated no lien had been filed against the former owner because they had granted them a waiver on the assessments.

Also, I think the OP stated the city changed its requirements rendering this particular lot unbuildable. Otherwise, it could not have been included in the original plat as a buildable lot, it would have been common area owned by the assn. But, because it is on the plat as a regular lot and was sold as such the owner is subject to paying assessments since the CCRs do NOT state only improved lots are assessed -- it states ALL lots are uniformly assessed.

If the zoning is proposed to be changed on a parcel the city/co must hold public hearings. If a property is zoned as residential the property owner cannot just sell it as commercial -- he would be committing fraud.

If the current owner loses his case against the City I would think the only thing he could do is to try and sell the lot to the HOA. The HOA could turn it into a park and perhaps even build a small building for meetings. I don't know who else would want it. But, if that's an impossibility, then they are probably stuck with it and I don't know that the seller can be faulted as they may not have known about the change in zoning.
GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 02/21/2010 5:59 AM
Gloria,
Do you know if the current owner is contesting the set back lines? If there is a court case pending or an appeal, you might be able to enter into that issue as an interested party.........if that helps...any of the parties. It could be if this is contested the judge makes a ruling and this may be to the HOA's interest and maybe something can be done. Also, has the tax assessment been changed on this lot?

I am not certain whether the new owner is contesting the new stream buffer setbacks. But, IMO, since the same Board of Zoning Appeals this past week granted several variances for encroachment into the stream buffer zones for the Board of Ed to build a new high school, our new owner certainly has cause for a lawsuit. This is the same encroachment variance from which the new owner sought relief.
GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MicheleD on 02/20/2010 8:03 PM
Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 3:41 PM
I believe that the old owners owe the back dues, but since no lien was placed on the Lot, we won't collect without filing a suit in small claims court. $$$$$$. Lesson learned and uncollectable bad debt.

You are correct. Write it off.

Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 3:41 PM
I believe that the new owner cannot be held to pay those dues, but I hesitate to grant a variance since I don't believe the BOD has that authority.

What "variance" would have to be granted? The new owner did not own the property when the dues were not paid, the new owner is not responsible for them.

Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 3:41 PM
I believe that we should lien the new owner for the delinquent 2010 dues.

Yes. Completely. Extinguish the previous lien and file one for the 2010 assessments only.

Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 3:41 PM
I believe the new owner took title in 2009 and must pay from that point forward...again no lien existed when he took title..just that notarized agreement.
The "notarized agreement" has nothing whatsoever to do with the new owner. It's unenforceable on either party. Let it go.




Michelle,

I completely agree with your position that we should extinguish the existing lien for several reason stated. The new owner was not part of that notarized unenforceable agreement; he owes from point of taking title forward; our CCRs do not distinguish between developed/undeveloped/unbuildable (all Lots were buildable when platted).
I brought the possibility of extinguising the old lien. Our para said it was unnecessary since the amount would be calculated on satisfying the lien....that just doesn't make sense to me...it is also why the new owner is seeking a letter of absolution which wouldn't be necessary if the old lien was extinguished and a new one put into place.

As far as property taxes owed to the city on the Lot, the new owner has said he is appealing them too. He said the city has raised the taxes on the Lot, which they have made unbuildable due to the new stricter stream buffer zones.

As far as the HOA forcing foreclosure on the Lot if the new owner continues to not pay its Dues, the BOD has also discussed that potentiality. The Lot would still be required to pay taxes to the city, of which our HOA does not have those resources. We collect about $9,000 for the entire subdivision for the entire year...little money.

Could the HOA build a clubhouse or make it into park space? Again, those stream buffer zones cover almost the entire lot with a ravine running through it. We come back to money available for any improvements, insurance for liability and taxes.
Due to the topography, this Lot would have been a challenge to develop when the stream buffers were advantageous. Obviously, that is why the original developer did not build on it and included it as an incentive to the adjacent Lot owner to purchase that house.

I am going to press for extinguishing the old lien on the new owner, forget that notarized document with the old owner, place a new lien on both owners who are delinquent in 2010 Dues. That's it.

GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MicheleD on 02/20/2010 8:03 PM
Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 3:41 PM
I believe that the old owners owe the back dues, but since no lien was placed on the Lot, we won't collect without filing a suit in small claims court. $$$$$$. Lesson learned and uncollectable bad debt.

You are correct. Write it off.

Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 3:41 PM
I believe that the new owner cannot be held to pay those dues, but I hesitate to grant a variance since I don't believe the BOD has that authority.

What "variance" would have to be granted? The new owner did not own the property when the dues were not paid, the new owner is not responsible for them.

Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 3:41 PM
I believe that we should lien the new owner for the delinquent 2010 dues.

Yes. Completely. Extinguish the previous lien and file one for the 2010 assessments only.

Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 3:41 PM
I believe the new owner took title in 2009 and must pay from that point forward...again no lien existed when he took title..just that notarized agreement.
The "notarized agreement" has nothing whatsoever to do with the new owner. It's unenforceable on either party. Let it go.




Michelle,

I completely agree with your position that we should extinguish the existing lien for several reason stated. The new owner was not part of that notarized unenforceable agreement; he owes from point of taking title forward; our CCRs do not distinguish between developed/undeveloped/unbuildable (all Lots were buildable when platted).
I brought the possibility of extinguising the old lien. Our para said it was unnecessary since the amount would be calculated on satisfying the lien....that just doesn't make sense to me...it is also why the new owner is seeking a letter of absolution which wouldn't be necessary if the old lien was extinguished and a new one put into place.

As far as property taxes owed to the city on the Lot, the new owner has said he is appealing them too. He said the city has raised the taxes on the Lot, which they have made unbuildable due to the new stricter stream buffer zones.

As far as the HOA forcing foreclosure on the Lot if the new owner continues to not pay its Dues, the BOD has also discussed that potentiality. The Lot would still be required to pay taxes to the city, of which our HOA does not have those resources. We collect about $9,000 for the entire subdivision for the entire year...little money.

Could the HOA build a clubhouse or make it into park space? Again, those stream buffer zones cover almost the entire lot with a ravine running through it. We come back to money available for any improvements, insurance for liability and taxes.
Due to the topography, this Lot would have been a challenge to develop when the stream buffers were advantageous. Obviously, that is why the original developer did not build on it and included it as an incentive to the adjacent Lot owner to purchase that house.

I am going to press for extinguishing the old lien on the new owner, forget that notarized document with the old owner, place a new lien on both owners who are delinquent in 2010 Dues. That's it.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Gloria,
My thoughts were more along the line of the HOA interests would be to insure there is nothing done that would impact other properties and the integrity of the HOA is maintained. Don't know if this could become an issue or not. I also think the HOA would have a keen interest in any change along any property bordering a stream.

Even this High school being considered and variances being tossed about by the county would appear to be of interest to the HOA.

See if you can pull up the contract for the deed on the property between new owner and old owner and see if there is any mention of anything that could influence the situation now. County web site should have that.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Gloria,

Here is my take:

Quote:
Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 6:26 AM

1. In 2005, the then BOD entered into a notarized agreement with a HomeOwner who also owned the adjacent undeveloped Lot. The agreement allowed the HomeOwner to not pay Annual Assessments on the undeveloped adjacent Lot unless/until the Lot was sold or a dwelling was erected on that Lot. He would give up his vote tied to that Lot. No lien was ever placed on the Lot...just this notarized document.

The Board should have never done this and there is certainly some legal questions that should be answered by an attorney. However, who was at fault - The Association (represented by the BOD at the time) or the home owner? I would suspect that the Association was at fault and not the member.

Quote:
Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 6:26 AM

2. In 2009, the HomeOwner transferred title of the undeveloped Lot to a Finance Company through which he had taken a loan and used the property as collateral. The HomeOwner did not notify the HOA of the sale nor did he pay the back Assessments 2005/2006/2007/2008.

The previous owner should have notified the Association. However, the Association became aware of the sale, so that point is mute. Per the agreement with the HOA (based on your posting), the lot incured no assessments until it was sold. Thus there was no back assessments to pay.

Quote:
Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 6:26 AM

3. The new Lot Owner paid the 2009 Assessments, but not the back Assessments.


Good. The new owner recognized the obligation and duly paid the Assessments he owed. As I understand it, any new owner is only responsible for the assessments from the time the sale was finalized forward (simplified as I know that there are certain circumstances that would make this understanding incorrect).

Quote:
Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 6:26 AM

Now the new Lot Owner wants to develop the Lot. After many calls and meetings, the plans proposed complied with our CCR's. However, due to the topography of the Lot, it needed to go before the city Board of Zoning Appeals for variances due to stream buffer setbacks.

When the subdivision was originally platted, our city did not exist. We were an unincorporated portion of another city. In 2006, we became our own new city. The stream buffer setbacks were increased by the new city from 25 feet to 25/50 and 75 feet setbacks. The city determined that under its guidelines, they would not grant the variances necessary to allow development on this Lot.

OK. Good information to know. However, it is not a concern of the Association. The owner submitted plans to the the HOA. HOA approved them but permits, etc are still required. City/County refused to grant permits on existing design. Homeowner now has to submit a new design. They should get it approved by the city/county first and use the previous disapproval as arguments before the HOA for Association approval for the new design.

Bottom line. This is not an issue for the Association. It is an issue between the City and the owner of the lot.

Quote:
Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 6:26 AM

4. The new Lot Owner is delinquent on 2010 Assessment and says that since this Lot is unbuildable, he will not pay.

The member is certainly allowed to argue this in court (if it goes that far). The ability to have the design approved by the city is not an issue fot the Association.

You should treat this member as any other member who failed to pay assessments. Follow your enforcement procedures and if need be, foreclose. Hopefully it will neve get to that.

Quote:
Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 6:26 AM

One of the many questions the present BOD is discussing:
1. Did the 2005 have the authority to enter into that initial agreement postponing payment of Assessments?
IMHO, I don't see anything anywhere in our CCR's giving the BOD authority to waiver anything for any reason.

Previously answered. Does the current Board wish to sue the old board (and any board who served between the original agreement and now) for negligence or just move forward.

Personally, based on this posting, if I was on the jury I would assign some of the blame to the Association for entering into such an agreement and only require the previous homeowner to pay some (not all) of the past assessment.

Quote:
Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 6:26 AM

2. Can the BOD enter into another agreement with the new Lot Owner absolving him from the past dues in exchange for an agreement to hold the HOA harmless if he chooses to move forward with any legal action against the city pertaining to developing the Lot?

Why would the current board want to do something that is probably illegal?

Based on what was posted, I do not see where the Association would be responsible for the new owners failure to have a good survey done that would have shown those issues. The Association is also not responsible for any disclosure about the lot. That is the Sellers responsibility. The Seller failed to notify the Association about the sale. The seller failed to request a disclosure package before the sale. The buyer failed to insist on these documents prior to purchase.

The Association is not responsible for the buyers in ability to build.

The Association should not even consider entering into such an agreement. Since litigation was threatened by the current owner, the Board should cease any discussion about pending litigation with the member and turn everything over to the Associations attorney.

The only future conversation should be about covenant infractions and assessments.

Posted By GloriaL on 02/20/2010 6:26 AM

This issue gets more convoluted each day. I'd appreciate new eyes and new opinions on this. I think we have a mess ahead of us... /div>

My advise is don't let it get convoluted. Personally, I would ignore the old agreement since that agreement seems to be mute now that the land has been sold. Focus on the only issue at hand - the new members failure to pay assessments when due. Follow your existing enforcement procedure and refuse to discuss anything associated with their ability to build.

When they cites the permit refusal as a reason, Explain that building or not building is irrelevant to the requirement to pay assessments. Then cite the section of your governing documents.

If he threatens a law suite, respond that that is their choice. Reminding them that they entered into a binding agreement to pay assessments when they bought the land and acknowledged that agreement by paying the 2009 assessments. Then follow your enforcement policy for non-payment of assessments.

These people at ticked that they failed to go through the proper procedures when buying the property and that it's their own fault. Therefore, they are lashing out at everyone. Don't get sucked in. Stick with the facts at hand - Failure to pay 2010 assessments. Nothing else. Let him initiate any legal action that they desire against the Association. This is what you pay a lawyer for. Based on your posting - the Current Board did nothing wrong. The Association can always counter sue for expenses relating to defending themselves.

If your concerned, spend some money and ask your Association lawyer if there can be a case against the Association for the city's refusal to issue a building permit to a member who purchased the land from another member?

This is my take on it.

Tim

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
as pt barnum once said:

THIS WAY TO EGRESS --->
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
John, LOL, that's funny, I hope I can remember it.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
John, LOL, that's funny, I hope I can remember it.

HelenK1 (Washington)
Posts: 68
Posted:
okay so who missed the part about the HOA collects $9,000 per year and it will take $3,000 in attorney fees to forclose on a worthless piece of land that will NEVER PRODUCE AN INCOME and will become an expense (propertly taxes) That's 30% of the yearly income. Why becausae the CCR'S do not say anything about lots that become unbuildable Not everything is going to be in the instruction book. Sometime the BOD just has to use some common sense.
HB (Oregon)
Posts: 143
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HelenK1 on 02/21/2010 3:43 PM
okay so who missed the part about the HOA collects $9,000 per year and it will take $3,000 in attorney fees to forclose on a worthless piece of land that will NEVER PRODUCE AN INCOME and will become an expense (propertly taxes) That's 30% of the yearly income. Why becausae the CCR'S do not say anything about lots that become unbuildable Not everything is going to be in the instruction book. Sometime the BOD just has to use some common sense.

Thank you Helen for saying that, because that is exactly what I was thinking!
- The prior BOD made an agreement with a prior property owner (done) whether anyone agrees with that decision is moot becase he is no longer an owner.
- The current BOD cannot collect now for back dues (IMO)
- Don't bother getting in between the city requirements and the new owner, let them figure it out.
- The new owner is responsible for any dues from purchase date since there was no agreement to waive them.

STOP making it more complicated. What is the purpose? The prior owner had an agreement with the HOA, whether right or wrong it was made. You could try to sue him in small claims, but the only person at fault here is the HOA.

Deal with the current situation, which from what I read is whether to assess/collect dues from the new owner.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
The issue would seem to be and most of what has been suggested is how does the Board protect the association.
HelenK1 (Washington)
Posts: 68
Posted:
Gloria, You have said that 3 of the board members want the new owner to enter into an aggreement to hold the HOA harmless Could you please expand on that What exactly are they afraid of and why? You said they did not want to spend attorney fees defending the HOA. Defending the HOA from what?
GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HelenK1 on 02/21/2010 3:43 PM
okay so who missed the part about the HOA collects $9,000 per year and it will take $3,000 in attorney fees to forclose on a worthless piece of land that will NEVER PRODUCE AN INCOME and will become an expense (propertly taxes) That's 30% of the yearly income. Why becausae the CCR'S do not say anything about lots that become unbuildable Not everything is going to be in the instruction book. Sometime the BOD just has to use some common sense.

Helen,

The point about our tiny dues is a huge consideration to foreclosing on the property that would still owe taxes to our city. We just don't have the money.

After getting some insight here, I think I am going to present to the BOD the following:
1. Direct the attorney to extinguish the existing lien on the new owner for the back dues 2005/6/7/8.
He did not own the property at that time.
There was no lien for those delinquent dues because of the notarized agreement so a title search would have come back empty.

2. Direct the attorney to send a demand letter and initiate a lien for delinquent 2010 dues.
The new owner paid 2009 but not 2010.
He says if the Lot is unbuildable, he won't pay. Out CCRs don't distinguish.
His fight is with the city since their stricter stream buffers made a legally platted, buildable Lot now unbuidable.

3. Do not write a letter to the new owner absolving him or responsibility for the back dues. By extinguishing the lien, that is done without engaging in a procedure for which I believe the BOD does not have the authority...granting waivers.

4. Direct the attorney to send a demand letter and initiate a lien for delinquent 2010 dues to the former owners on their present residence.
They had been current on all dues for their residence, except for this year.
If they sell this current residence, their would be a lien in place to collect back dues...

5. Decide whether to forget about the $1,500 the former owners owe on the back dues on the Lot they no longer own. Chalk that up to a lesson learned about the authority the BOD has or does not have.
Our attorneys have estimated it would begin at $1,000 to initiate a lawsuit in small claims court. IMO, not worth the money or effort.

I'd like to see what you all think about the above points. Let it fly!

HelenK1 (Washington)
Posts: 68
Posted:
Okay as far as the dues not paid by former owner I agree release the lien. As other posters have stated, this is an in house issue. The former owner had a notorized document that was ambiguous enough to believe that he did not owe any dues. He even gave up his vote in return during the time period in question. You can't give that back. I was under the impression that the $1500 was just for the new owners 2010 dues Now that is cleared up. How much does the current owner actually owe for 2010? And again what are your fellow board members afraid of? What makes them want to enter into hold harmless agreement with the new owner?
GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HelenK1 on 02/22/2010 6:08 AM
Okay as far as the dues not paid by former owner I agree release the lien. As other posters have stated, this is an in house issue. The former owner had a notorized document that was ambiguous enough to believe that he did not owe any dues. He even gave up his vote in return during the time period in question. You can't give that back. I was under the impression that the $1500 was just for the new owners 2010 dues Now that is cleared up. How much does the current owner actually owe for 2010? And again what are your fellow board members afraid of? What makes them want to enter into hold harmless agreement with the new owner?

Our Dues are $330 per year per Lot "uniformly".
The new owners are delinquent for $2010 only, $330 + 10% late penalty + 10% interest.

I do not agree that the notarized document with the former owner was ambiguous for him to believe he did not owe those back dues. He knew when he transferred title of that Lot, the agreement brought those dues forward to be paid. I believe he also knows that our resources prohibit the HOA from chasing after the funds. We cannot lien the property because he no longer owns it. It was a personal guarantee between the former owner and the BOD...not a good position for the BOD to be in. The $1500 is the total owed for the multiple years of back dues by the former owner. My position = chalk it up to a valuable lesson learned the hard way.

I am not certain what the fellow Board Members(3) fear from a lawsuit if initiated between the new owners and the city. I THINK it may be the $$$ which would quickly mount up if the HOA is named in the lawsuit (lawyers tend to name everyone in sight in lawsuits) and the BOD would have to defend its position. I believe the HOA has no responsibility in the Lot becoming unbuildable, however, if named, the HOA would still need to defend its position. Thus the $$$$ which we just don't have.

I believe entering into a hold harmless agreement, thinking it may protect HOA against possible fees from a potential lawsuit if one is inititated and if the HOA is named, still does not justify writing something for which the BOD has no authority. Maybe that lesson has not been learned by all y

We are only 28 Lots, 8 years old (took over from developer in 2004), not much experience, so here is where we are.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Most likely, the new owner will APPEAL the municipality's board ruling and bargain for the variances. It's all about compromise anyway. Other variances may be mitigated due to the owner not being able to do what he wants as far as footprint of the building is concerned.

Around here, people keep bugging the wetlands and woodlands boards with threats from their lawyer until they get what they want, or mitigation takes place. I have ONLY seen property deemed 'unbuildable" when it was covered with water and declared a wetland. And that was lakefront property. Still, the people got to build docks to get to the water source. I've never seen the word uninhabitable" come out of a municipal hearing except for a concemned building.

The HOA should back off and not get involved or think they are responsible for any part of this mess. It has no jurisdiction or power to make any decisions.

Deal with the assessment issue only. That is the only HOA role. (Notifying the members about the place and time of the appeal hearings may be a nice thing to do since these rulings may affect other properties in your HOA.)

HelenK1 (Washington)
Posts: 68
Posted:
It's ambiguous for someone else to believe that there is the possibility he did not owe anything. At least the way you wrote it. Anyway let that go. I didn't realize the hoa was so new it didn't take long for things to get messed up. Anyway so he owes about $400 Our attorney charges that much just to write a letter and file the lien. Before that we send out notices from the hoa a 30 day and a 10 day final stating that if the account is not brought current then it will be turned over to attorney and attorney fees will be added At this point the big issue is still the fact that the lot is unbuildable. I really don't think a $4oo waiver is going to make a difference but that doesn't mean that you have to actively have to pursue collections at this point either. If it does go to court I think the last thing you need is the owner to show that the hoa's attitude on this is "too bad for you,it's your problem not ours and we just want our money" There are still a lot of issues here concerning the lot. You said that when the hoa was formed all lots were buildable. Therefore it was an hoa of buildable lots. The ccr's do not distinguish between buildable and unbuildable because they were all buildable at that time. Now a lot has become unbuildable. The ccr's forgot to mention what to do if that happens. This lot no longer meets the criteria it needs to be in an hoa of buildable lots.Next there is the issue of why the hoa was formed at all. I imagine there are roads and such that need to be maintained. There is also the issue of hoa requirements about what can be built on the lots. For what reason? The protection of property values. If someone put a single wide mobile home on a lot it would detract from everyone elses property values. So therefore it could be concluded that the hoa is responsible for protecting the property values of lot owners.From there a good attorney could possibly make it just a hop, skip and a jump to the hoa is responsible for protecting the property values of all lots and since this lot is in the hoa the hoa is responsible for protecting it's value and therefore responsible for fighting with the city on the setbacks Now I'm no attorney but it's feasable that this could happen or at least be sued for. If it does happen then you're in big trouble and the hoa dues really become trivial This is the big issue here. What to do about the fact that this lot has become unbuildable?
GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
The answer we just received from our attorney's firm just now about whether the BOD can waive fees was:

"The Board's ability to waive fees is within its discretionary powers."

That's the whole answer. What does that mean????
For this new owner? for the back dues? for the new owner? for the entire Association? for individual Lots?

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Gloria,
In my opinion it means your lawyer has made a determination that the Board can waive fees at their discretion (discretionary powers.) I would suspect most HOA documents state something like this. It does not say the Board can do anything, it says the Board has the authority to make a decision and act on it. Does this mean the Board is right in any decision it may make. No, these decisions are subject to challenge and if taken to court some law office or officer will make the ruling. The Board can not act in bad faith, the board can not act in such a manner that would make bad business sense. I suppose the better question for the lawyer should have been: "{Given the reasons as the Board presentsd them is it wise to waive assessments for those reasons." There could be valid reason to waive assessments but it is a single call subject to challenge. So now you have to decide, it it worth pursuing the issue or eating the loss. That's my opinion, nothing else.

If that is all the lawyer stated, and you paid him, go back and ask for your monie's worth, he should have been more forthcoming.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Gloria,

I guess it means for "all of the above", at the BOD's discretion! Without reading your CCRs, it's really hard for me to say if I would agree with this attorney's interpretation. Attorney's can be wrong, you know. In all the years I've been involved with HOAs, I've never heard of a BOD having this discretionary power with regard to waiving assessments. The assessments are the backbone of the assn -- they are mandatory on every property owner and the CCRs and some state laws state there is an automatic assessment lien for delinquent assessments. To say that the board has the power to just waive the assessments just does not fit into it, IMO.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
I agree with Mary. I do not believe assessments can be waived. Perhaps the attorney was misquoted. For example, the Board may have the power to write off as bad debt but not to waive.
GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerB on 02/23/2010 9:12 AM
I agree with Mary. I do not believe assessments can be waived. Perhaps the attorney was misquoted. For example, the Board may have the power to write off as bad debt but not to waive.

The terse one sentence reply as I previously quoted does not sit well with me. I am still the only BOD Member opposing waiving this. I cannot grasp my mind around the two opposing ideas..."uniformly" as stated in our CCRs, and this broad discretionary authority our attorney's collection dept sent to us.

I will vote against it again, for the record.

JerrellC (Florida)
Posts: 83
Posted:
Glorial I have several thoughts on your situation. I am in an HOA in Florida and our board does have sole authority and power to waive a dues or interest and penalties as stated in our CC&R's. I see Georgia is not like Florida in this respect. Even though our CC&R's say after the lots are sold the owners are then required to pay dues. In our case the developer sold off all his lots to several at least five other builders with the same rights as the original developer. These new builders then in effect becomes the Declarant and are not billed for dues until those lots are sold off and built on and have there CO. Now as in your case it seems the new buyer has a problem, but I don't think its with the HOA. He may have a case against the prior owner if the prior owner new about the restrictions with the set backs now required by the city. If the prior owner new about them and did not inform the new buyer then he did not disclose a condition affecting the lot then he could be sued for recovery of his cost for the lot purchase plus attorney fees. Also the new owner should have obtained title insurance which should give notice of any covenants, restrictions, or easements of record. Did the new owner obtain title insurance? If he obtained title insurance and the title company did not indicate these restrictions in their search of the public records then he could have a claim against the title company or did the title company give exceptions to easements, or restrictions in their policy of insurance also with an exception clause for what a survey would reveal. Did the new owner get a proper survey or did he buy the lot without a survey as manny foolish people do just to save a few bucks. If the surveyor was given the information of a good title search with all the easements and restrictions noted then the buyer may have a claim against the surveyor for the lack of indicating these restrictive setbacks in his survey otherwise he could threaten to sue the city with an inverse condemination suit for relief if they do not grant him a variance for his building and claim a loss of use of his lot. He could also demand a reduction in his tax because of loss of use. I also wonder if he could fit his building on the lot with what space he has left but run his outfall to his septic tank towards the street with the drainfield in the front of his property. This is quite common in Florida. If he is able to fit his home on the useable area left and the city grants him a tax relief for his loss of use then he may come out all right after all. My last comment if all else fells you no the old saying is buyer beware. JerrellC
HelenK1 (Washington)
Posts: 68
Posted:
The new lot owner cannot sue the old lot owner as this was not a direct sale between the 2. As stated by Gloria, the old lot owner took out a loan from finance company using the lot as collateral and then could not pay the loan. The old lot owner then relinquished title to the finance company. I don't know if this could be considered or was a forclosure or not. If it could then any seconday liens of hoa (the past dues of old lot owner) would probably be wiped out anyway.The new lot owner may have bought the property "as is" at some sort of sherrifs sale. The exact details of all that are still unclear
GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HelenK1 on 02/23/2010 4:34 PM
The new lot owner cannot sue the old lot owner as this was not a direct sale between the 2. As stated by Gloria, the old lot owner took out a loan from finance company using the lot as collateral and then could not pay the loan. The old lot owner then relinquished title to the finance company. I don't know if this could be considered or was a forclosure or not. If it could then any seconday liens of hoa (the past dues of old lot owner) would probably be wiped out anyway.The new lot owner may have bought the property "as is" at some sort of sherrifs sale. The exact details of all that are still unclear

The old Lot owner used the Lot as collateral for a loan with a finance company. The new Lot owner IS the finance company. We do not know what transpired other than the transfer of title.

No title insurance search on the Lot by the new owner would have turned up any liens. Remember, the agreement to delay payment of annual dues was just a notarized agreement between the old Lot owner and the BOD, no lien was placed.

The new Lot owner told me he didn't even come to physically view the Lot, didn't check for any setbacks, and certainly didn't contact the HOA for CCRs or anything outstanding on the Lot. He "assumed" he was getting a Lot valued at $125,000 to satisfy an outstanding loan of $50,000. I believe he thought he was getting a steal. He did not due diligence or he would have learned about the stricter stream buffer setbacks and the dramatic impact they imposed on building on the Lot. The HOA only discovered the transfer of title months after it occurred. It was by the HOA's searching the city's Zoning calendar of Meetings for other items, and not the new owner coming forth with anything.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Jerrell,
Yyou stated "I am in an HOA in Florida and our board does have sole authority and power to waive a dues or interest and penalties as stated in our CC&R's."

IMO, waiving assessments is not the same as no assessment until lots are sold nor the same as writting off a delinquent assessment as a bad debt. If your documents specifically state "the Board has the power to waive assessments" would you please post that segment of your CC&Rs? This many seem picky but the language is critical; I have difficulty believing an assessment can be waived.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Gloria,
If your symopsis is correct and if your documents reguire (as mine does) that any change in the property assignment has to be reported to the HOA, then I suspect the BOD of directors should go after this new owner as he has the responsibility to provide correct records to the association, and if that doesn't seem important now, then he should be reminded he is not without obligation to the Board.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Roger,

Well, you beat me to it! I was going to ask Jerrell the very same question. I, too, find it difficult to believe an HOA has the power to just waive assessments.
GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerB on 02/24/2010 9:17 AM
Jerrell,
Yyou stated "I am in an HOA in Florida and our board does have sole authority and power to waive a dues or interest and penalties as stated in our CC&R's."

IMO, waiving assessments is not the same as no assessment until lots are sold nor the same as writting off a delinquent assessment as a bad debt. If your documents specifically state "the Board has the power to waive assessments" would you please post that segment of your CC&Rs? This many seem picky but the language is critical; I have difficulty believing an assessment can be waived.

Roger,

This is exactly the point that I am having a hard time with. Our CCRs do not state anything about the BOD having the power to waive assessments. It does not state that the BOD can waive anything.

Yet, our attorney's office (I must clarify that this respond came from the contact in the collection dept, not the attorney themselves) sent that one terse sentence saying it is the BOD's discretionary authority. IMO, that just is not specific enough.

My fellow BOD Members believe otherwise.

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