Illegally converted garage

I live in an HOA of about 20 townhouse units, each with two car garages. One of the units has an illegally converted garage with space for one car and closed off office in back. That unit was converted a long time ago and the current owner bought the unit that way. That owner now intends to sell and move away.

Common area parking is very limited and at a premium.

I’ve been to the city planning and permits department and they have told me that what I have described to them is not permitted. It is illegal and would not be grandfathered and they told me that if I file a complaint they do followup. They told me that they have a policy of keeping the filer’s name anonymous – although as I have brought this issue up with a few other owners I assume that people will know it was probably me if I do file it.

As this is California I am concerned that a large extended family may buy and move into the unit and use that extra small room for even more people to live there, with more cars trying to park in the common area.

So what should I do?

Report it before it goes on the market?

Report it after it goes on the market?

Report it when the unit is in escrow?

Report it after the unit has sold?

Forget about it?

Oh, a couple more factors:

The owner is on the HOA board. And the other two people on the board bought a few years ago at the top of the market and I suspect would rather put up with the potential for a large extended family in the unit and the parking problems rather than to see the value of this sale lessened in any way. So going to the board is not viable.

Reginald,

It looks like you have already done your homework and you have already dismissed the bringing the issue to the Board.

As you know, every decision has it's own benefits and consequences. I also get the impression that you have already considered these.

The choice is yours. No-one on this board can make the decision for you.

Tim

An interesting story.

I understand that the concern is about common area parking. Who can park there? Homeowners or only guests?

If homeowners then there is nothing you can do. They can use their garage as they like - for storage if they want to, and park all their cars in the common parking area.

If guests only - then again you don't need to worry. After a couple of incidents they would be given warnings, and they won't be parking there.

The neighbors can have as many cars as they want - there is little you can do to stop them from using common parking area.

Reginald, there's an ethical question here, and I think you know it as well. You have discovered an illegal act. You have researched it thoroughly and there is no question whatsoever that the garage room is illegal. Forget the parking problems, and the timing of a possible sale, and whether the owner is a board member or not. You have knowledge of an illegal act. Whether you choose to report it to the authorities reflects upon your own personal ethics.

Report the unit.

Don't worry about the babble about the homeowners can use the space as they like (storage or whatever) since this is clearly a city code violation and could very possibly be unsafe. Parking is really a minor issue.

You really needn't worry about anyone finding out who complained, since they are moving anyway.

And if the unit really had to be converted as noted by an appraiser, you are correct, it would have happened the FIRST time it sold with the illegal conversion.

Time to pull the trigger.

Illegal can include an unsafe aspect. There can be safety issues not only with construction, but with carbon monoxide build up, access by emergency crews, etc etc etc. That's very likely why it's a "code violation" -- codes are generally in place to address many things, the least of which is safety.

Not necessarily, no one knew of the safety defects of the Beverly Hills Supper Club until it caught fire and killed 165 people and injured 200 but they were there just the same.

"Illegal can include an unsafe aspect. There can be safety issues..."

Any construction has defects. ANY.

There is whole industry of attorneys specializing in HOA lawsuits against developers. These attorneys have a team of construction specialists whose job is to find defects in common areas. They know exactly where to look, and they always find them. ALWAYS.

Michele, I have no doubt that if they look at your home, they will find code violations you are not aware of. Little you know that your house is structurally unsound and unsafe, and you are just waiting for the whole house to collapse.

People advising to report the violation on safety grounds have not a slightest idea of what specific safety code is violated. The advise is based on a pathetic "what-if" guess.

An advise to report on ethical grounds reminds me how neighbors reported on each other during Stalin times in Soviet Union - any minor comment and the person could go to jail. What kind of "knowledge of illegal act" we are talking about here? Murder? Robbery?

Too many very loud words, too much non-sense around the parking concern.

Mary those are valid points but if you notice I didn’t respond to the OP in any way only to your assertion: “If there was a real safety issue it should have come to the surface by now.” My father fancied himself a do it yourselfer but it wasn’t until after his death that I found how he cobbled things together, especially the electrical work he did; it’s a wonder he didn’t burn the house down.

Any way to find out if the current owner had title insurance? If so he could file a claim and the title ins should cover the costs to covert if back to code. Otherwise, if you want to be nice, you could wait, hope the new buyer has title insurance, and then when they buy it, report it. Their title ins should cover the conversion back. That way it doesn't really cost either owner, or impact the sale going forward.

blah blah blah.

We're not talking about a house that was built that had the appropriate inspections along the way, that may or may not actually involve shoddy workmanship.

Nice try, though.

We're talking about codes that are set up specifically to deal with specific issues and permitting, like, oh, turning a partial garage space into a "living space."

And I'm not "advising to report" an alleged code violation solely on safety grounds, but they do factor into the equation, like it or not.

The official already weighed in that the living space was illegal. It may or may not "pass" any code requirements once a permitting process is begun. But it's completely legitimate to be concerned about the safety aspect, as I stated before, because city codes are not solely about aesthetics. There is at least an effort by the city zoning code enforcement officials to attempt to hold builders (and homeowners) accountable for safe building and alterations to their living spaces.

The only thing pathetic in this particular dialog us your attempt to bring Stalin into it! Whew. Reach much?

If the converted portion of the garage were not done legally or up to "code," and the house is sold, and I said nothing to anyone, and a family moves their kid into the little room, and the space leaches in carbon monoxide buildup from the other part of the garage, and the kid dies. . . .whew. Sure, a reach on my part? Maybe. But it is more probable than improbable, given that the converted space was never ever subjected to the appropriate and legal inspection or permitting process.

Nope. Advice still stands. It's not only an apparent violation of city requirements (in that it has no permit or inspection), and an apparent violation of the governing documents.

Frankly, both the alteration should be reported to both the city and the HOA.

Mary, I think you are confusing this with the thread about the lot that can't be built on. This is the one with the garage that has been partially converted to a living space.

Michele, it seems that the name Stalin is the only thing you actually recognized, missing the key point. So a little clarification for you.

In late 30s during political repressions in Soviet Union hundreds of thousands of citizens (absolutely unaffiliated with anything) were convicted simply on suspicions of being "saboteurs". Neighbors reported on neighbors for making a comment, or telling a joke.

Why did they do that? They, like you Michele, noticed something "illegal". They had a "knowledge of an illegal act".

At least those people had a fear - if they didn't report their neighbors, they themselves could get prosecuted for not reporting.

What is the reason for the need to report in this case? Would Reginald be liable for not reporting? Even if the whole house burns down, with dead little children inside who got stuck in that garage - he would not be liable.

"Advice still stands. It's not only an apparent violation of city requirements (in that it has no permit or inspection), and an apparent violation of the governing documents."

Your advise is plain pathetic. Reginald has nothing to do with enforcing city or HOA regulations. Safety concerns, carbon monoxide buildup - nice try. Keep exaggerating, there are many other "what-ifs", so keep going.

No, Michael, you are the one with the problem "understanding."

Your attempt is still pathetic as is your continued confrontations with me.

I'm not stupid and I don't need you explaining building issues or Stalin to me.

Get over yourself, esquire.

I called you out many posts ago.

You didn't like it.

Move on.

My advice still stands.

Of course you are not.

ReginaldF

We had a similar situation with a former builder's model home that had the garage converted to a sales office. It is technically not currently to code, but could be made that way fairly easily. The city said they would enforce the code violation if we wanted, but it could be easily corrected, and, obviously, they would not enforce our bylaw restrictions.

It doesn't seem like the alteration you write of is currently violating any HOA rules, so you would be stuck with city recourse if necessary. If I were you, I would work on pursuing an amendment to your bylaws to prohibit any of the things you might have future concerns about regarding the space ... work on getting some rules about requiring parking inside the garages or not using common spaces for unit parking, etc. Certainly, if an additional family actually lived in the questionable space, I would not hesitate to contact the city, but you have no way to know if that would happen at this point. The new owner might just use the space as a work bench.

If you decide to take issue with the actual space, I would suggest doing it prior to sale. Our wait until the property transferred ownership was a mistake in that it complicated the matter.