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ChrisP5 (Missouri)
Posts: 165
Posted:
Given that the most common response to questions posted here is to consult ones own governing documents I am curious as to how many board members actually read the documents. When i was elected to the board I read our CCRs/Bylaws etc and while I couldn't tell you that Limited Common Elements are covered in section xx.xx.x I am pretty familiar with what concepts are contained therein and can find what I am looking for when necessary.

At our last board meeting it became apparent that at least 1/2 of our members haven't bothered to ever read these documents, some admitted as much. In one meeting alone we tried to break our CCRs, violate the bylaws and state condominium law all in one night. These weren't small technicalities but rather substantial items and if we were ever called on it in court we would lose.

I personally take the opinion that if you are on the board you should at least have a working knowledge of these documents? Am I wrong here?
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
No you’re not, everyone should read them, especially Board members. Unfortunately you can lead a person to knowledge but you can’t make them think.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MichaelT6 (California)
Posts: 46
Posted:
I think it makes sense. There are no director qualifications established in HOA model. Directors are untrained and uncompensated amateurs, so their role is more or less ceremonial (as the elections, too). With this scenario its easier for PM and HOA attorney to run HOA as a business - as it was designed to be in the first place.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Michael,
Easy to say, hard to impliment. Not all, by far, need a lawyer or a PM, can't afford it, can't sustain them and if you don't know what is right how are you going to know what is wrong. No, the documents all say it is the respoinsibility of all owners to run the association, that is why they are called Home Owners Associations. Just because they don't do it, does not set the law. In real life, for the most part, association are run by about 10 % of the owners, give or take. But those 10 % must know enough not to jeprodize the whole, one way or the other, but they must know their documents. When the replies here advice folks to read their documentsw, that advice is not given with the intent that ALL owners will rad their documents, but to point out each HOA could very easy have specific details in their documents that pertain to the problem at hand.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
To add,
It has never been proposed on this site that the "document" are infallible, or correct, or applicible. It has been stated by many of the regular posters, that, in general, the whole big pictures of HOA and their governance is a big mess and should be drastically changed to something better. However, that is not going to happen, the imperfections of the system will keep sticking it's head out, folks will influence legislators to change one personal agenda, and create ten other problems, and the states will still wqant control, and the Feds want to stay out of it.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Michael,

Even boards that have no PM are staffed with members that don't bother to read the gov docs. And, how many PM's do you think really read the assn's gov docs? Sadly, far too many people do not take pride in their work.
DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565
Posted:
Sadly, reading the governing docs does not always help. It has been obvious in our association that the board members are not familiar with them. Even when we quote them chapter and verse they continue to violate the state laws, covenants, bylaws and rules and regulations. Then they turn to the association attorney to manufacture a legal argument as to what they are doing is OK.

Please don't lecture me as to the steps I can take to stop this, its all been tried.
JohnO6 (Georgia)
Posts: 424
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidW5 on 01/19/2010 7:28 AM
Sadly, reading the governing docs does not always help. It has been obvious in our association that the board members are not familiar with them. Even when we quote them chapter and verse they continue to violate the state laws, covenants, bylaws and rules and regulations. Then they turn to the association attorney to manufacture a legal argument as to what they are doing is OK.

Please don't lecture me as to the steps I can take to stop this, its all been tried.

Based on the very limited information (none, actually) that your post provides, I don't believe others here will attempt to "lecture" you on what to do.

If you don't seek help from the members here, but rather would just express an opinion on your particular situation as you have done, please don't be offended when there isn't much response to your post.
DennisT (Ohio)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Maybe this is just belaboring an obvious point but it's not enough to have read the documents. One must read and truly understand them as well as the HOA laws of the state, other federal laws and case law. They are all interrelated. I am convinced that association documents are written by lawyers for the exclusive purpose of drumming up future business for their successors. They've almost all been copied from an association that came before yours and thus repeat the same mistakes that are out-of-date or are outright illegal. Then the only way to truly figure it out is get a lawyer to interpret it for you and pray a court agrees with his interpretation.

As a board member it's fairly easy to deal with someone who hasn't read the documents, they can be politely but firmly dismissed when they're arguing against the documents. It's nearly impossible when you've got somebody who can quote chapter and verse from some document but they don't understand that for a variety of reasons that may not mean what it says anymore. Or they just don't care.

All I ask of board members is that they do the best they can and seek competent counsel when necessary. Beyond that one is going to be consistently disappointed if they expect that every board will only consist of people who have enough time to stay on top of everything I mentioned. Quite frankly I wouldn't necessarily want a board like that because then you'd exclude a lot of people who could still be valuable contributors to the community.

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