Notices for rules that's are effective

Started by KimM8 • 13 replies • 1291 views

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KimM8 (California)
Posts: 109

Posted:

My husband went to our HOA meeting last night to discuss with them two violation notices we have received.

He told them he wanted to repeal one of the rules and they told him that the rule in question isn't finialized yet. So my question...How can we get letters in the mail regarding us violating (even saying we will be fined) rules that techinically aren't effective yet?

Notices:

1. To remove our washer and dryer

2. That my husband can't secure his motorcycle by wrapping his (rubber enclosed) bike lock around the carport post (which doesn't even come into contact with the post). He had one "official" notice stuck to his motorcycle saying his lock would be cut if he didn't comply with the violation notice.

At the meeting they told him he needs to park his bike somewhere else...yet the ruling it's even effective. When he also told them the notice said he his lock would be cut he said they acted surprised...but 14 days ago I sent an e-mail to the board president informing her of this notice. Not sure how she can be surspised, I also forwarded a copy to our contact at the management company.

I feel like they're playing games!

Any advice?

Thanks a bunch, I really appreciate the help I received so far with questions I have posted.

KimM8 (California)
Posts: 109

Posted:

Sorry the topic should read "Notices for Rules that aren't effective"...sorry!

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

Kim, before a violation notice can be effective it first needs proper approval and then be distributed to all owners. Perhaps someone who doesn't know proper procedures to follow jumped the gun. Whomever sent the letter needs to apologize in writing and advise that your notice has been voided.

DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482

Posted:

I agree with Roger.

However, sooner or later, the Board will get its rules and processes in order and you'll want to figure out what you will do then.

You won't be able to skate on technicalities forever and they'll eventually lay a violation on you and it will stick.

You've said in the past that your Board is impossible to work with. If they were not, I'd suggest that you lobby to get the rules modified to your liking.

Otherwise, I'd suggest finding a way to park your motorcycle off site and getting rid of your washer and dryer.

If you decide to fight it out when the real violations come, you'll spend a lot of time, money and effort, probably with little or no results. The Board will also use its position to slap you with all kinds of other rules and violations.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Daniel,

An excellent post. The warnings have been made apparent that there will be no washer and dryers visable (we don't know what this is about) and that the motorcycle will not be parked where it is currently being parked. Therefore, there is plenty of time to take care of these 2 issues which if the new rule is passed, they will be in violation of the rules. Accept the fact that the Board can make these rules and all must abide by them.

KimM8 (California)
Posts: 109

Posted:

Thank you all for your replies!

Roger – I agree, it’s not effective because it’s not approved. Under CA law and our CC&R’s we have 30 days to vote to repeal a rule, which is what we will do once they post the final rules.

Daniel – Agreed, and now they know what to say to get that done. They did say they will be installing more motorcycle parking, I hope that is true and offered to pay a permit fee for costs associated to this.

We don’t use the washer and dryer, it is in a storage closet on our back patio. We plan on selling it, but haven’t gotten around to it. They did send an e-mail out to all home owners reminding them that washers and dryers are not allowed…but again this isn’t an official rule.

I don’t plan on skating on technicalities; there can’t be technicalities when it comes to laws and rules. It’s not a rule; they can’t violate us for it. They shouldn’t be sending us letters in the mail informing us they are giving us our final warning and they shouldn’t be threatening to destroy our property (cutting the motorcycle lock) when we aren’t in violation of any standing rule.

Donna – Warning’s do no good when there isn’t a rule about it. It’s like warning people about not parking in their drive way when there is no rule saying you can’t. They can’t impose rules on people that don’t exist. Understanding that they may soon exist gives them no legal right to send me letters and threaten to damage my property.

The board has limitations, and I think sending us letter after letter saying we will be fined for a violation that doesn’t exist is one of those limitations.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Kim,

I did not say nor implt that what the Board did in sending you letters was right. It was not! I wanted to make a point that you are in charge of reacting to future violations knowing what the Board is trying to do. Work with them. Forget about the motorcycle for now. The washer and dryer are NOT allowed and you still have them in the back. If the Board has said that they are going to install more motorcycle parking spots, then say Thank You and move on.

KimM8 (California)
Posts: 109

Posted:

Donna,

Sorry if I took what you said the wrong way. The board has said washers and dryers aren't allowed. But we don't use it...it sits in our storage unit. We will eventually sell it, but haven't had the time to do that. I have notified the board several times that we don't use the washers and dryers. They can't make me get rid of personal property...but I don't want it taking up stoage space if we don't use it...lol.

I am working with them. I just find it annoying that I spent some much time worrying and researching documents for a violation on something that isn't a rule...

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Kim,

The Davis-Stirling Act only addresses rule changes not new rules. IAW 1357.140 5% of the members may petition the board for a special meeting to vote on a rule change w/i 30 days after the rule change has been mailed to the members.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Kim,

Sorry, after reading further, I find that "rule change" also applies to the adoption of an operating rule.

Civil Code §1357.100. Operating Rule Definitions

As used in this article:

(a) "Operating rule" means a regulation adopted by the board of directors of the association that applies generally to the management and operation of the common interest development or the conduct of the business and affairs of the association.

(b) "Rule change" means the adoption, amendment, or repeal of an operating rule by the board of directors of the association.

HB (Oregon)
Posts: 143

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KimM8 on 01/14/2010 1:44 PM
Donna,

Sorry if I took what you said the wrong way. The board has said washers and dryers aren't allowed. But we don't use it...it sits in our storage unit. We will eventually sell it, but haven't had the time to do that. I have notified the board several times that we don't use the washers and dryers. They can't make me get rid of personal property...but I don't want it taking up stoage space if we don't use it...lol.

I am working with them. I just find it annoying that I spent some much time worrying and researching documents for a violation on something that isn't a rule...

Is there a stipulation saying that no washers and dryers are allowed unless they are not being used? I think "no washers/dryers allowed" means just that. I don't think it matters whether they are being used or not, they are not allowed. IMO.

KimM8 (California)
Posts: 109

Posted:

So you're saying the board can make me get rid of my own personal property? Which we have had for five years, when they used to be allowed. But now since there is GOING to be a ruling against them I am required to dispose of my personal property or be fined...?

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Kim,

Does your HOA provide water service to the members? If so they have the authority to prohibit the use of washers. However, they cannot make you get rid of your washer, only prohibit you from using it.

I'm wondering how they would know if you used the washer.

KimM8 (California)
Posts: 109

Posted:

I know they know we have one...not sure how they know we still have it since we havn't used it since October and closet it's in we only use for storage. The closet is on our outside patio, and it unlocked...but we live upstairs so I doubt they have gone on to our patio to check...

I agree they can tell us not to use it (which we don't) but they can't tell us we have to get rid of it.

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