Exceeding the Annual Budget

Started by SamS • 29 replies • 1749 views

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SamS (Hawaii)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Our board, of which I am a new (and yes, green) member, .. votes to pay for any project it wishes even though it is not and never has been in the budget nor is even necessary. (eg. partys)

The new budget is handed out at the annual general meeting each March, to the owners & members who are in attendance, who are then quickly asked to approve it and all expenditures - which is what it has already spent outside of last years budget. The vote is rushed through and owners appear to me to be manipulated into this. The board calls this a 'majority' of owners. (meaning a majority of owners "in attendance") This leaves the real majority of owners in the dark on spending. Is that the correct way to have these approved?

I am more of an honest, up front person and this may be acceptable by the rules but doesn't seem right.
I am asking for feedback on how your HOA presents and approves it's yearly budget and how it informs owners and has approved spending beyond the budget. Also opinions of this method.

SamS (Hawaii)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Also, all owners except one live "out of state" as the condo is in Hawaii and an investment for most of the owners who rent it to vacationers. Thus it is difficult for most owners to attend the annual meeting. Besides the board members there, ... the most to attend would no higher than 20%, tops!

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Sam our documents don’t require H/O approval of the budget, the BOD sets it but the documents require the BOD to mail each H/O a copy each December of the next years budget. It’s a sad fact but most H/O’s don’t get involved until they perceive something as adversely affecting their wallet. If there is a quorum either in person or by proxy to hold the annual meeting then yes the majority of the people there prevail. Also it’s not unusual or against the law that I know of for a corporation to pull money from one budget item and use it for another if needed as long as you don’t exceed the yearly income vs. expenditures. That’s not to say they have carte blanch to do as they want with the money, they’re still bound by the business judgment rule.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Sam,

A check of your CCRs or bylaws should tell you what the exact requirement is for approval of the budget. Some docs say the number of members entitled to vote (members not in good standing are excluded); and some say the number of members present, either in person or by proxy. Since the majority of your members are out of state and not able to be present I would think the best way to handle approval of the budget would be to mail it with the notice and ballot for the meeting. A separate question could be placed on the ballot to vote for approval of the budget. This way more members would have a say in approving the budget rather than just a handful of the total membership. I know this is not specified in your gov docs but that doesn't mean the BOD could not decide to handle it this way.

HB (Oregon)
Posts: 143

Posted:

Our annual budget is set by the Board each year. Ours has not changed significantly, but if it had we generally know about it well ahead of the annual meeting and would probably discuss it at Board meetings. Most of the stuff on our budget is what I would call "non-negotiable". Water bill, electricity bill, irrigation system, tax filing fees, insurance, etc.

We do discuss the bigger items such as landscaping and property management contracts becuase we try to get bids on those at least every other year if not every year.

When the Board is in the full swing of a meeting, there is normally not a chance for homeowners to interject, that is why it is wise to have an open forum prior to voting on items if you can.

I personally do not think social events should be funded by an HOA. I think people should organize this outside of HOA business.

PaddyF (California)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Quick background: I am the President of my HOA BoD, 2nd year as such (first year was Treasurer) in California.

When I was first elected to the HOA BoD three years ago I had never done anything like that before, but I was interested in my community and wanted to do my bit to make it better. Communication between the BoD and the Members had been perceived as poor by many Members. I think the BoD was trying to do the right thing, but let's face it -- being on the HOA BoD can be a pretty tough job, since you get all the complaints and have to solve all the problems -- for which you don't get paid.

My first year as Treasurer was interesting since my professional background is not accounting, but engineering. But like any engineer, since there were numbers involved, I took the whole budget thing apart and put it back together. Our BoD meetings are held monthly (Members are invited -- most don't show up and those who do almost always are there to report a problem of some sort). I prepared a monthly Treasurer's Report to distribute to anyone who attended the meetings and made copies available to any Members who wanted one. We still do this today.
The monthly report tracks all income and expenses for the month and also shows progress against the annual budget.

Experience has taught me that one has to be very careful about preparing the annual budget. Expenses from past years are a guide, but there are always things that are unpredictable/unexpected. Some expenses are going to be fixed or accurately estimated (landscaper contracts, utilities, monthly services performed). Some are not (e.g., termite expenses -- some years are light and some quite heavy on those and not easily predictable).

The budget is a guide, but it's not absolute.

Our budget is prepared by and approved by the BoD. Members as such don't approve the budget. We discuss the budget before the meeting to approve it, and every expense item throughout the year that is not an emergency item is placed on the meeting agenda. Members -- all members -- get a copy of the BoD meeting agenda a few days before the meeting so they can see what exactly is going to be discussed and potentially approved -- that way, if there's an item of interest, they can attend and listen in detail, as well as ask questions (usually during Open Forum). And again, monthly Treasurer reports detail every cent that comes in and goes out for the month, as well as accumulated totals against the annual budget. All members get the annual budget mailed to them in detail BEFORE the BoD formally votes to approve it.

IMHO, any project or expense should be linked directly to a budget category. Most of the time this is easy to do, and there's nothing that says you can't create different categories for unusual or one-off expenses, or have as many (or as few) categories as you need to sort out expenses and plan for the future.

When I first joined my BoD, I have to admit, I didn't put a lot of stock in the budget as such, mainly because I just didn't understand it. I thought the HOA would just spend where it had to and would save whenever possible. But the whole budget process is important because some people just don't worry about the future and how much things will cost when they need to be replaced -- for example, we need to replace the roofs on our units in the next couple of years, and previous Boards didn't seem to worry about having the money to pay for it. Yet it's going to be the biggest single expense for our HOA.

My experience has been, the more open the process, the better for everyone. People will often help you see things you may have missed, or at the very least, confirm you're on the best path possible if you consider all alternatives.

DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482

Posted:

Just to hit on one point.

A majority of owners in attendance does represent a majority of owners.

Owners are responsible for representing themselves, either in person or by proxy. If they don't, it is assumed that they consent to any and all actions taken in the meeting.

SamS (Hawaii)
Posts: 6

Posted:

I can see our board is doing generally correct things with the budget process. They do not send a once a year budget or report to owners but they do state the owner's can ask for it.

I must have some kind of new-persons view from an owner's side. Maybe this will wear off or get so uncomfortable I will resign. I would like to be much more transparent than this board is, with it's spending. I would like to see specific clear labels on our spending on the reports instead of expenditures grouped into totals with broad labels.

There is no method for owners who can not come to our general meeting to voice their approval or objections to the budget. But since the board can throw a $10,000 party without it being on the budget, it seems approval wouldn't matter anyway.

I thought a budget was created to have the board strive to adhere to it with other spending mainly on needed unexpected things that crop up.
That is absolutely not the case with this group. Spend what ever you like on whatever you like, when ever you like. The budget means nothing. If an owner objects too strongly .. then call the lawyer to answer and deal with them.

Would these things be uncomfortable to anyone else? .. or am I just too green?

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PaddyF on 01/06/2010 9:41 AM
Quick background: I am the President of my HOA BoD, 2nd year as such (first year was Treasurer) in California.

When I was first elected to the HOA BoD three years ago I had never done anything like that before, but I was interested in my community and wanted to do my bit to make it better. Communication between the BoD and the Members had been perceived as poor by many Members. I think the BoD was trying to do the right thing, but let's face it -- being on the HOA BoD can be a pretty tough job, since you get all the complaints and have to solve all the problems -- for which you don't get paid.

My first year as Treasurer was interesting since my professional background is not accounting, but engineering. But like any engineer, since there were numbers involved, I took the whole budget thing apart and put it back together. Our BoD meetings are held monthly (Members are invited -- most don't show up and those who do almost always are there to report a problem of some sort). I prepared a monthly Treasurer's Report to distribute to anyone who attended the meetings and made copies available to any Members who wanted one. We still do this today.
The monthly report tracks all income and expenses for the month and also shows progress against the annual budget.

Experience has taught me that one has to be very careful about preparing the annual budget. Expenses from past years are a guide, but there are always things that are unpredictable/unexpected. Some expenses are going to be fixed or accurately estimated (landscaper contracts, utilities, monthly services performed). Some are not (e.g., termite expenses -- some years are light and some quite heavy on those and not easily predictable).

The budget is a guide, but it's not absolute.

Our budget is prepared by and approved by the BoD. Members as such don't approve the budget. We discuss the budget before the meeting to approve it, and every expense item throughout the year that is not an emergency item is placed on the meeting agenda. Members -- all members -- get a copy of the BoD meeting agenda a few days before the meeting so they can see what exactly is going to be discussed and potentially approved -- that way, if there's an item of interest, they can attend and listen in detail, as well as ask questions (usually during Open Forum). And again, monthly Treasurer reports detail every cent that comes in and goes out for the month, as well as accumulated totals against the annual budget. All members get the annual budget mailed to them in detail BEFORE the BoD formally votes to approve it.

IMHO, any project or expense should be linked directly to a budget category. Most of the time this is easy to do, and there's nothing that says you can't create different categories for unusual or one-off expenses, or have as many (or as few) categories as you need to sort out expenses and plan for the future.

When I first joined my BoD, I have to admit, I didn't put a lot of stock in the budget as such, mainly because I just didn't understand it. I thought the HOA would just spend where it had to and would save whenever possible. But the whole budget process is important because some people just don't worry about the future and how much things will cost when they need to be replaced -- for example, we need to replace the roofs on our units in the next couple of years, and previous Boards didn't seem to worry about having the money to pay for it. Yet it's going to be the biggest single expense for our HOA.

My experience has been, the more open the process, the better for everyone. People will often help you see things you may have missed, or at the very least, confirm you're on the best path possible if you consider all alternatives.

Paddy,

I applaud your effort and committment to transparency. You are right the more open the more people will help. Can I ask where in California you're from?

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

Sam - your budget has enough lee-way in it to throw a $10K party?
I'd say it needs revising, sure 'nuf.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DanielH1 on 01/06/2010 10:52 AM
Just to hit on one point.

A majority of owners in attendance does represent a majority of owners.

Owners are responsible for representing themselves, either in person or by proxy. If they don't, it is assumed that they consent to any and all actions taken in the meeting.

Daniel,

Where do you get the idea that if a person does not exercise his right to cast a vote it is assumed that he consented to the action? I have heard of some boards stating this but, IMO, this is not correct and could probably be challenged in a court of law. Only the votes cast in favor of an action can be counted. You cannot count votes that have not been cast -- plain and simple!!

Also I wonder how you can arrive at the conclusion that a majority of owners in attendance represents a majority of the owners. There may be 100 members in the assn which would equate to 51 being the majority. However if there are only 50 members in attendance (in person and by proxy), that majority is 26 -- only half of the actual majority of the owners. The majority of owners required to be in attendance to produce a quorum is based upon the wording in the bylaws. If it says a majority of those present in person or by proxy you may get a different number than if it says a majority of those members entitled to vote.

DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482

Posted:

I get what you are saying, Sam, but owners really need to find their own way to go to meetings. Having a good excuse ("I live too far away") isn't legally acceptable. If the HOA sets meetings at reasonable times and places, the owner has to do what it takes to attend OR accept that he will have to abide by the decisions but not have any input. HOAs are required to be reasonable, not extraordinary.

If the HOA membership insists on (re-)electing a lousy Board who refuses the follow the budget, they need to elect somebody else or accept the consequences of continuing to elect a lousy Board.

But, I agree with you. The Board should follow the budget. In some states, they are required to follow it. But, if they don't, what can you do? Really, the only thing that you can do is vote them out. And, if not enough people care and/or are willing to protect their investment by voting the bums out, well, the HOA as a whole has essentially given its approval to current Board and its conduct.

DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482

Posted:

Mary, you misread my post (or I miswrote it). I was merely saying that, as in your example, 26 people can pass the budget and the remaining 74 have to accept the result, even if they don't agree with it. The 49 who didn't show up essentially said: "I don't get to vote but I accept any result, even if I don't agree with it or would have voted against it if I had been there."

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Daniel,

Gotcha! It's easy to be misunderstood when conversing in this medium.

I've always said, if you don't vote then you have no authority to complain. That goes for national elections and HOA elections alike.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

If the BOD doesn't follow the budget to the letter it doesn't necessarily mean they are being errant. A budget is not written in stone; it's only meant to be a guide -- it's a "guesstimate" of the income and expenses for the coming year. There's nothing wrong with moving money around during the year if circumstances change.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Wonder how many noticed this:

Paddy, Sam, Daniel, HB, and even Richard are all relatively new to this site.
Mary, on the other side is out of sight with postings. Now it's possible that the new guys could have read a bunch of postings before posting personnaly but not likely. What stands out to me is how close the opinions of the aforementioned are to what we have been trying to get across. Open meetings, transparency, owner involvement, noticing meetings, open budget discussion, a avenue for the owners to communicate with the board. The other glaring reference is all these guys seem to come from Boards that have things under control and are trying hard to get better.

Just thought I would say this.

PaddyF (California)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Gidday Sam,

To answer your question: "Would these things be uncomfortable to anyone else? .. or am I just too green?"

If I were in your position, I'd be uncomfortable with what's going on.

As some other people have said here, what's going on may not be illegal, but to me, it doesn't sound very prudent. But that's just my personal opinion.

I agree with your budget philosophy -- I think a budget should be an accurate target to aim for, unexpected items aside. This means people have to look at a budget seriously and understand as many facets of expense as they can, both the regular and irregular ones. Wow, a $10K party? Really? Strewth, I sure could use another $10K for the roof fund! Here I thought we were doing good when a procedure to monitor irrigation leaks saved us $1,500 to $3,000 a year! We fight to squeeze every penny's worth of value from expenses.

Sounds like you're in a minority on your Board regarding caution and communication.

But as Treasurer, I don't see anything wrong with you preparing your own monthly Treasurer's Report to detail expenses, income, etc. I jazzed mine up with pie charts and such so people could not only see the amounts but the proportions in different expense categories. Your report can also include your opinions, observations, etc., especially if you identify them as such. I suppose laws differ State to State, but in California, as Treasurer, my report could contain anything I chose to put in it along with my commentary unless strictly forbidden by law (e.g., don't disclose personal financial info, names/addresses of people in arrears, etc.). Income and expenses are a matter of import to every Member. You can be pretty subtle about it too -- just the names and amounts of expenses will get people asking questions. "What's this $10K party thing?" would be my first. (:

I know being the new kid on the BoD block can be daunting, but don't give up too soon. As a BoD member, your opinion and point of view is equal to any other BoD member. As Treasurer, frankly I think you have the most important position on the Board, and I say that having been a Treasurer and President! I think (and hope) as you get more experience, you'll get better at it and will learn how things work and how you can get them to work for you.

Also, when things get tough and at times when it seems like it's a totally thankless job, I ask myself "If I didn't do this, who would, and what would be happening?" It's our community, our home, our neighbourhood.

Just the other day, when I was out walking around (checking for irrigation leaks) one of the Members drove by and said, out of the blue and unsolicited, "I just wanted to tell you that things are nicer since you've been working on them."

I'm still eating off that compliment! (:

PaddyF (California)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Oops, Sam I just went back to the top and noticed you didn't specifically say you were the Treasurer on your HOA BoD -- don't know why I thought you were -- must not have read carefully enough. In any case, sorry for that incorrect assumption -- the rest of the reply should stand. (: Good luck.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Paddy and Sam and anyone else.

Since this hasn't been mentioned here and we are speaking about the Treasurers reports, what about a consenus on developing or using the website of the HOA to display transparency. These squirelly figures may not look so good to the homeowners if they were displayed and posted in a file on a website. On the other hand good figures look good posted on a website. Do all you guys have websites and do you utilize them, especially Sam from Hawaii (I think) that only has one full time resident. I bet he is a busy little bee 24/7.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

I agree with Robert that it would be nice to be transparent and use the web site(s) of the Association to post information to residents. Our Association essentially has two web sites, one I built back in September and one the HOA finally put up late November. The Association hasn't updated the site since it was launched before Thanksgiving and it was very skimpy to begin with. We haven't since any financials since the new PM took over. You wonder if they are hiding something. When I ask, I was told it would be consider a leagl issue for them to answer, since I ask too many questions. I see why people don't want to get involved. Pay your dues and shut up.

Our budget process left a lot to be desired. We have a $70K surplus, the budget looks likes a 1st grader did it, the budget process included 3 BoD members, which is violating the Open Meeting Act. Unfortunately, we don't know who is running the show here. If you didn't poke your nose in, you wouldn't know something was fishy. Our BoD and PM would like nothing more than to exclude the membership from what they are doing. In our case, it's been the PM who has been the guiding force behind much of what has happened here. The BoD changed PM in September. Our Board has not taken the time to familarize themselves with the law and how to conduct meetings and business. In another post it was asked if it was proper for PM's and contractors to attend every meeting. In our situation, it is almost neccesary because of the lack of knowledge from our Board. On the surface, it appears that our Association is well off, but I wonder if you dig far enough, what would you turn up.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Richard,
Regards your situation with two web sites, I will repeat some prior posting about this very thing. A lot of website were designed, built, maintained and paid for by individuals because of the queston of transparency and personal conflicts with the Board. When we went through the same drill we decided the effectiveness of the site will only reach it's potential if the bboard controlled it. Of course we also knew we needed board members that agreed with us, at the initial time, the board as a whole do not want a web site. One year later the website is under control of the board, still the original webmaster and becoming a pretty effective venue for association news of all kinds. We still have owners that don't go to the site, but they will as time passes if we keep the website interesting. E-mail blasts have proved to be effective and since we now have counters on every page, we can monitor what causes spikes on our site. Another feature we concentrate on is pictures and short automated slide shows, for instance, showcasing our xmas light display. We are just lucky in that we have a person that devotes considerable time to this. But, the harder you work the luckier you get. Our financials are posted there and updated monthly, because the board receives from the treasuer a monthly update so that is posted. All this born out of conflict and disagreememt, just like you are going through Richard. Change will come if you get some support, it will take time, all this presented before. It appears to me, from your remark that the board is hiding behind the fact you ask too many questions, well don't ask so many question and settle in for the long pull. Attend the Board meetings, takes notes, record information and try to help your cause. Don't get involved in conflicts, work for that small small change. You are much to interested and intelligent to spent your efforts spinning your wheels. Of course this is all just some yahoo spouting of on a website, it will not change you, it will not change the board, it is said and done..........over. There are ways to effect change and break down walls, there are ways to built up walls, both may be different in each association.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 01/07/2010 10:40 PM
You wonder if they are hiding something.

Or I would wonder first whether they are a) busy with the holidays, or b) lazy if not busy with the holidays.

Just because a website is a first priority for you doesn't mean it is for everyone else on the board, nor does not populating it mean they are hiding something, especially if it's not been a primary communication tool for them to begin with.

In that case, it could also be a learning curve of how and when to even THINK about what to post.

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 01/07/2010 10:40 PM
When I ask, I was told it would be consider a leagl issue for them to answer, since I ask too many questions.

Or maybe they consider your questions badgering?

Personally I love when people ask questions. The more they ask, the more they learn and the more they understand that some of their own initial perceptions and understandings regarding what goes on in an HOA are not correct or not complete.

On the other hand, boards sometimes do get that resident or two who seems to think he or she knows more about -- well, everything -- than they do and ask the same questions, are never satisfied with the answer, and then try to find other, more creative ways to ask the question that will result in the answer that they've already made up their minds is the answer anyway.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 01/07/2010 10:40 PM
The Association hasn't updated the site since it was launched before Thanksgiving and it was very skimpy to begin with.

Richard of course I can’t access the member login pages but as an HOA web site I’ve seen a lot worse. http://mtnglen2.org/outside_home.asp

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MicheleD on 01/08/2010 5:50 AM

Posted By RichardP13 on 01/07/2010 10:40 PM
You wonder if they are hiding something.

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 01/07/2010 10:40 PM
When I ask, I was told it would be consider a leagl issue for them to answer, since I ask too many questions.

Michele,

The web site issue has nothing really to do with the conversartion except to point out that the Board now has a vehicle in which they didn't have before to communicate with its residents. Maybe the hoilidays got in the way, maybe they are lazy, if not busy with the hoilidays, maybe its a learning curve, maybe they have no clue how to run a web site, or just maybe they don't want certain information posted for the resident. Since I have first hand knowledge, I will take whats behind the last door. Thank you very much.

So let me recap for you since September:

1) No Financials since the new PM
2) Illegal Budget Process
3) No Minutes available
4) Fixed Election
5) Sending a lawyer after a candidate who questioned the election process and procedure
6) Illegal Executive Session to discuss Falied Election and Amendment Change
7) Sending our Utility billing to a company with a C- rating with Better Business Bureau
8) Refusing to provide the actually voted on even though its required by law.
Michele, would like me to continue? Yes, I do know that they do. Is it bragging, no, because I have taken the steps to become quite familiar with what it takes to properly and ethically become a board member. It doesn't involve saying you will volunteer your time and then let a management company run the show. There is enough imformation available online to educate themselves, if not all at least a couple, how about maybe one.

Glen,

This is a canned, cookie cutter web site from a group that specializes in HOA's. All of these HOAS web sites provide pretty much the same type of content that is availavle to the homeowner, such as, newletters, minutes, agendas, budgets, financial, events, news in the community. I have reviewed a number of HOA web sites and for the most part, many have all the items I listed included for the residents. I have to assume that if they won't distribute the items at the Board meeting or after phone or email inquiries, that they really don't want to give to the resident. Is it hiding something, maybe not, but at the very least, they don't want anyone questioning what they do.

If someone took a legitimate poll you would probably find there are more poorly run HOAs than properly run HOAs. Knowing what I know now, I probably wouldn't buy into another HOA in the further.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

And yet it contains many of the same items as your web site does except for the self-serving anti Board, PM and attorney stuff of course; however they do need to add contact information. As I have no first hand knowledge of whether the BOD violated the budget process I can’t comment on that; however the stuff on the failed election you continue to bring up ad nauseum I can. At your invitation in another post I did read the attorneys letter to you (BTW you should redact your address before you post stuff like that) and rather than the grand conspiracy you point out she has some well reasoned arguments.

Not only did she explain the rational of canceling the second meeting; she did it in mid December. So you’ve known for some time exactly why the second meeting was cancelled and why the meeting was held in executive session. Now we expect people to post in a way to favor their point of view, its only human nature to do so but to deliberately obfuscate the truth is another matter.

But to show I’m not without compassion to your plight, I have managed to gather the email addresses of the attorney, the PM and one Board member and have sent off a sharply worded missive advising them that they had better start following the law and to start listening to you as they obviously don’t know what they’re doing.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

You reaally buy the attorneys rational? I have had 25 attorneys and Property Managers tell me she was wrong. If the members present want to adjourn to a new meeting as the By-laws allow them to, whose to say they can't. The meeting in Executive Session was illegal, pure and simple. According to your reasoning, every Association is properly run and above reproach. I thought you made sense in your post, boy was I wrong!

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Richard, did those 25 experts tell you how to fix it? Right or wrong it’s done and you’re not going to change it by whining. You evidently got the 5% necessary to call a special meeting to do away with the quorum requirement but I take it from your other post you aren’t sure if you’ll have a quorum for it.

Instead of flogging a dead horse on the news page of your website you should have been explaining how important the meeting is and using it to gather support. If the 5% who signed the petition for the S.M. went out and gathered 10 proxies each you would have enough to hold your meeting. Now the reason homeowners aren’t up in arms over the second meeting and the general state of the HOA as reported by you could be apathy or it could be they like things the way they are or they perceive you as a kook.

I have zero tolerance for malicious people whether they’re on the Board or a homeowner and while we don’t have the Board’s side of this brouhaha you have been shown to shall we say, shade the facts to garner sympathy for your cause. I do know in the grand scheme of things you have very little to complain about, I mean you could be living in Scottsdale Estates. Now over the years we’ve heard some true horror tales here of malicious Boards but they are by far in the minority. Even if you troll the anti-HOA websites as I do; the vast majority of the posts about evil BOD’s and HOA’s are from H/O’s who got caught violating the CC&R’s and are P.O’ed because they are either being fined over it or have to fix it.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Glen

You really have shown your true colors. Good for you. BUT, do NOT ever accuse me of "shading the truth". As a resident of this community I have always paid my dues on time, volunteered for all community events, helped my neighbors. But I didn't to run for the board on the insistance of a few of my neighbor, because quite frankly, I could do a much better job than the present board was doing. So if I think the system is broken and needs fixing, then I will make the effort to do that. You appear to me to be a individual that doesn't like anyone reigniong on their parade. If you happen to be on a board you I'm sure you would use the same tactics that our board is doing. If the election would have played out like it should and I lost, so be it. I have been in much bigger arenas. But, once you rig the election to your favor, and this goes on throughout the country in one fashion or another, the gloves come off.

Glen, you have an awful lot of knowledge between the ears, but at the end of the day, you are no better than the evil HOA's that people fight. I'm sure you could make a good case for the President of Scottsdale Estates and what a fine job she is doing.

BTW, I have the required proxies for the quorum already.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Richard,
You are not going to be allowed to come on this site and ridicule and past judgment on our regular posters or any any poster. We have maintained this site over many years with civility and honesty and consideration. Glen did not come to you, you came to Glen, so back off and stop this stuff or leave. And don't bother posting some kind of defense for your remarks. There are none.

Everyone is willing to help, no one is willing to take abuse from you, read your posts, can you make sense or purpose for them other than outrage because folks don't play the game the way you want. If what you are doing don't work, change the way you are doing it.

What can I do? I will stop posting here if I have to put up with your antics. You are presenting yourself more wrong than right, that would bother me.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

So be it

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