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RobertG (Arizona)
Posts: 505
Posted:
This has been discussed over the years and I am now ready to tackle the issue. This will require a change in the bylaws so it will have to be sent out for the membership to vote, thus I would like something that would be easy to understand yet enforceable.

We would like to prevent multiple members of a family from serving on the board at one time. This just doesn't seem fair. The homeowners should at least have the option to voice their opinion via ballot.

How would a statement like the following sound?

"In addition to all other requirements, there shall not be more than one association member be allowed on the board and/or officer with the same residence address at one time."

The "and/or officer" part is included since there is no requirement that an officer must be a board member. This would also preclude a family member being appointed to fill a vacancy. Also, if two members of the same residence get elected at the same time, one would have to decline.

What problems do you see with this condition?
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
since you asked for the problems..

You are lowering your potential service pool.

You are taking away choice from the voters. If they want six cousins to serve on the board, why shouldn't they get what they want?

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
I see HUGE problems if the relatives each own properties and are, therefore, eligible for board membership.

To restrict a valid owner/member's participation on the board simply because of family relationships to other owner/members is absurd.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, familial relationships do not inherent voting blocs make.

We had a near unbreakable voting bloc in our own association early on from COWORKERS who happened to both own in the development. They weren't related, but they worked together on various construction projects and had a solid and almost unbreakable voting bloc along with two other of their close neighbors until we managed to get additional people on the board who did not know them personally.

The way to avoid that sort of situation is to be sure to have a good outreach into the development for board blood.

If you don't get it, then it makes no difference if the board members are "related." They will form a power bloc in spite of the misguided efforts to restrict board participation.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Robert,

How about: "In addition to all other requirements, only one member of a household shall serve as a director and/or an officer at the same time."

May I ask what is your objection to more than one family member being on the board together? Many people object to this stating there should only be one vote per household on BOD matters, the same as in elections. You say "This just doesn't seem fair. The homeowners should at least have the option to voice their opinion via ballot". Well they do! They can choose not to vote for that second person from the same household! What is your real objection??

HB (Oregon)
Posts: 143
Posted:
As a homeowner in our HOA, I would not feel that it was "fair" to prevent me from serving on the Board because another family member was also on the Board. Having said that, it really depends on the size of your Board. If say a husband & wife were on a Board of 3 then I would encourage others to fill the vacancy just to avoid the chance of creating a majority with the husband/wife votes.

Now on the other hand, if the Board is 5+, then it really would not be as big an issue.

We are barely able to get 3 people to volunteer for our Board, and in fact, one is kind of an absentee member. We struggle to get a quorum at each annual meeting, but somehow manage by other homeowners calling their neighbors to beg that they show up. And guess what, the same three people continue to get re-elected because nobody else is interested (I have been president for 4 years now and TRY to get people to run without much luck).

If you further restrict who can be on the Board, you may be in a situation where you aren't able to fill it at some point???

AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
It's not allowed in Florida. In the state statutes it reads:

"In a condominium association of more than 10 units, coowners of a unit may not serve as members of the board of directors at the same time."

This law was passed because quite often it DOES cause problems.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Well, we're simply going to have to agree to disagree because I do not believe that having two members of the same family on the board is inherently bad, nor is it near as problematic as having two very very close friends and/or co-workers on the board at the same time.

It's my belief that the reason it was passed is because it simply LOOKS like a problem, not because it really is or has been one.

But in the end it really doesn't matter what I or any one else thinks, it's what the governing documents and local regulations state or say.
DeeS1 (Michigan)
Posts: 223
Posted:
Robert:

My husband and I are both on the BOD for our community. We have encountered some "appearance" questions from some homeowners in our community, however, as MicheleD points out, it's really just that ... uninformed and non-fact based speculation. Ironically, there are two other board members whose votes align much more tightly than me and my spouse.

If they were both elected, I too think that vote speaks to what is okay with the community. However, if these board members who share the same unit are not acting in the best interest of the community, those issues can be addressed through recall as they would for any other board member -- why eliminate potentially good, solid board members from your HOA just because they live in the same house -- instead address the tangible issues.

Do your CCRs allow for non-owners to also be on the board (agents, employees, etc?). If yes, I would argue that you also need to make an equal amendment that applies to them: "No candidates from the same company or organization."

DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482
Posted:
Avoid the "and/or" construct in your amendment. It invites people to choose their interpretation as "and", "or" or some weird definition of "and/or".

Spell it out if you need to: "In addition to all other requirements, a Member may not be nominated, appointed or serve as a Board Member or as an Officer if he or she co-owns or lives at the same residential address as another Member who is currently nominated, appointed or serving as a Board Member or Officer."
RobertG (Arizona)
Posts: 505
Posted:
To those who responded, I must have not made my question clear enough.

There are two separate issues that could be considered.

1. Is it a good idea to not allow homeowners from the same residence to serve at the same time?
2. Does the amendment I stated cover all the conditions to prevent multiple homeowners serving at the same time?

I was really asking about #2, but most people gave opinions on #1.

It is nice to see some thoughts on this issue even if it wasn't what I was trying to ask about. Most opinions question why it shouldn't be allowed. Maybe it should.

I think some of the opinions raise the separate question about having only a few people who will volunteer and thus they should be used for as much as possible rather than leave the position (board member, officer, committee member, ...) vacant. I have always wondered which is better, having 1 or 2 people do everything or leave it vacant to try to get someone else to step up.
DennisT (Ohio)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Robert:

So if I understand #2 right, you mean that if two family members own two different units only one could serve at the same time? Otherwise I'm not quite sure what #2 means. Who or what is a multiple homeowner?
RobertG (Arizona)
Posts: 505
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DennisT on 12/30/2009 9:11 PM
Robert:

So if I understand #2 right, you mean that if two family members own two different units only one could serve at the same time? Otherwise I'm not quite sure what #2 means. Who or what is a multiple homeowner?

This is why I asked as I had forgotten how to deal with someone who owns multiple residences and lives in one.

The real concern expressed to me was the simple situation of a husband and wife both on the board at the same time.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Again, RobertG, there is nothing inherently wrong with a husband and wife serving on the board at the same time.

There is just as much havoc, power grabbing and just downright mayhem that two very close (as in friendship) neighbors can wreck as I have seen ever coming from a husband and wife on a board at the same time.

I see no logical reason to exclude them unless there is a state or other local restriction on it (one that specifically disallows to owners of the same unit from being on a board).

It's a "feel good" move that could some day hamper your organization, meaning, it appears to address some esoteric "perception" thing, but in the end may well keep the board from flourishing when few people actually step forward to be involved.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Robert G,
Has this been said.
Change documents to read, there is one vote assigned per unit, all board members must hold a vote, there will be a total of -----votes (number of units.
Each unit must submit to the association the name of the person holding the vote for that unit.

Ours is worded something like that. You could also specify that only owners listed on the deed can serve as board members. Also stipulate that an owner can assign the unit vote through power of attorney, but it must be recorded in the association records. At our annual meeting we have to verify the vote for officers is correct, meaning among other things, the name submitting the vote is a listed voter.
RobertG (Arizona)
Posts: 505
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 12/31/2009 8:55 AM
Robert G,
Has this been said.
Change documents to read, there is one vote assigned per unit, all board members must hold a vote, there will be a total of -----votes (number of units.
Each unit must submit to the association the name of the person holding the vote for that unit.

Ours is worded something like that. You could also specify that only owners listed on the deed can serve as board members. Also stipulate that an owner can assign the unit vote through power of attorney, but it must be recorded in the association records. At our annual meeting we have to verify the vote for officers is correct, meaning among other things, the name submitting the vote is a listed voter.

My understanding of what you are discussing annual meeting votes and not who can be on a board. The two issues are totally unrelated in my judgement.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
RobertG,
Well I agree the two issues may well be unrelated in some HOA's, but I don't agree that our documents are wrong because they restrict the Board member as to who can be on the Board, only those members holding a vote. Sure I understand that some HOA's have all kinds of folks serving on the Board and if that is what you want your documents to read, I don't have a problem with that, especially HUGE HOA's with HUGE budgets and responsibilities. But small HOA's can be run with owner control and owners votes, one per unit, board or membership voting. There is some that advocate the Board vote is only a Board vote and does not require a membership vote, of course I don't.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Better clarify that last sentence.
A board vote should be done by members of the association that serve on the board and hold the membership vote.

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