Getting absentee ballots

CoraF (Florida)
Posts: 8

Posted:

Ok,,,fairly new to this site but I do have a question.
Our members of our association vote for the pres., v.p., etc.

My question is - should a candidate be able to get absentee ballots to give out to those who are unable to attend the meeting? Or is it normal for only one member of the nominating committee to be able to hand out these ballots?

We have asked the ballots several times and now have been told that only one person is able to pass them out.

Unfortunately the person who is allowed to pass them out is not in favor of this candidate getting in to the HOA.

Thanks

CoraF (Florida)
Posts: 8

Posted:

Also 2 of the three people that are on the nominationg committee are also running for offices for the HOA,, is this normal or acceptable practice?

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

CoraF,
Go to the horses mouth. Get a written response to your legitimate questions from the Board. Put forth your question that prevents any answer other than what is is your documents. Ask for factual authority and apply it to the situation. You may be right in your assumptions but you want to start this with a firm idea of what is allowed and not allowed by virtue of your documents. When you can cite the Boards position them you can see if you want to change it.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Cora,

Ballots should be sent to each member of the assn with the annual meeting announcement.

It's not unusual for candidates to be on the nominating committee, but it really depends upon exactly what the nominating committee is required to do. If that committee is required to interview the candidates and determine if they are acceptable, then, IMO, candidates should NOT be on the committee. Exactly what do your bylaws say about the nominating comm? Whatever is written therein is the procedure that must be followed.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Mary,
Doesn't the nametag "Nominating Committee" describe their duties?

Webster says:

nominate: to choose as a candidate for election, appointment, or honor
Synonyms appoint, designate, name, tap for an honor.

But if you say a nominating committee may not be tasked to do this and simply serve to forward a list of names for consideration, I guess that is proper. I am just perplexed of why an association would desire to have the candidates on the nominating committee. However if every member wanting to run is selected by the nominating committee I suppose there is no foul. I would think it highly unusual if a candidate is on the slate and is allowed to evaluate or select or vote on another candidate for election.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Cora,
You should also check any state laws or your documents to see how and if an absentee ballot is constructed. I would imagine a copy of the required form would serve and as long as the total ballot don't exceed the total authorized vote and the handling of the ballot are secure after marking and the count is verified, I would think that would do it.

Also, what are you doing about write in candidates, or candidates nominated from the floor. I would think write in Ballots would be mailed to each and every person holding a vote, and this would be a requirement, every one has to get one.

Are you sure you are talking about mail in ballots? Maybe assigned proxies or something.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Robert,

I've served on many nominating committees and never did we interview candidates. A letter was sent to all members asking anyone who wished to be a candidate to submit a bio to the committee. Anyone who did so had their name entered on the slate. IMO, a member of an HOA should never be denied the right to run for a board position, unless, of course, he is not in good standing. And, in some assns a member not in good standing can still run for a board position; however, if he doesn't pay up b/4 the annual meeting,he may not be qualified to serve.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Mary, Hardily endorse you logic about never turning down anyone that wants to run. I think it would be a tough fight to deny anyone from having their name (voting members of course)placed on Ballot. However there are some associations that actually vet the applicants. I would also believe that if there were no measures to qualify a prospective owner; I know that some associations are very strict about their neighborhoods, other than to foot the bill, in our association there is nothing in our documents instructing any qualifications, and I doubt a bio is required. Just my observation.

BobJ4 (Florida)
Posts: 15

Posted:

Cora internet service went down yesterday and should be up today and will be back on this topic...

BobJ4 (Florida)
Posts: 15

Posted:

i just think there is to many fingers in the pot
iam with you ,,,i think the right way is to mail out ballets and go from there ....as for the way they are doing it here is wrong in my book ...that is why we need a change bad
...all seam to be one why there way and not with bylaws ,,, i still think a person running for office should nor be handling the voate and or ballets... not saying things are a little off color but why leave a opening to shouch a way ... the lady on the nomating commentee should not be running also ...and also be the only one that has the right to get the proxie votes out to people and help them get them back into the place for voteing
that is wrong and will stand there and say that always.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

IMHO, Absentee ballots should be requested by the person not able to attend the meeting.

Write-in ballots (returned before the meeting to be counted at the meeting)should have candidate's names listed, but there also should be room for write-in votes to be cast not on the ballot.

Nominees from the floor have only those in the room to charm, so anyone wanting to get elected should campaign, as a write-in or as a listed candidate.

Proxies can be awarded to others, too, for those who want to give their power of vote to another person.

Of course, HOA documents and state statutes take precedent.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Cora,

The correct way to conduct your election is to mail a ballot to EVERY member of the association which insures that all members are given access to a ballot. Then the mail-ins can use their ballots as they need and everyone who is running for a position is removed from handing out ballots selectively. No single person other than a properrty manager should have blank ballots in their posession. From your previous posts, you need a good overhaul of how your Board conducts association business.

You also need to run some copies of the Florida Statutes to read and follow because there seems to be little knowledge on how your association should be run.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Cora,

This is sort of a continuation from your Brother Bob's original post. I read those and all of the answers were given to you at that time. You need to mail those ballots and that is the bottom line. Because you are a Mobile Home Park, you follow Statutes 723.

CoraF (Florida)
Posts: 8

Posted:

I understand and appreciate the idea of mailing all ballots, however our issues right now are that our voting takes place on 12/14, next Monday, so therefore there is no time now to mail out the ballots. So my question still is how do we get absentee ballots for the people who can not make it to the voting? Is it up to one person to be able to hand and collect these ballots?

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Cora,

I would say that any member who needs a ballot to mail in should contact a board member or member of the nominating committee. I don't believe it's up to the members of the nominating committee (especially any who are candidates) to go to the home of a person who needs a ballot. I hope your board can see how ridiculous this procedure is and will start mailing ballots with the annual meeting notice. I've never heard of such a dumb policy!!

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

We don't mail ballots with our Notice of Meeting for the Annual Meeting, even with the annual election always taking place. We conduct LIVE voting with the only criteria that there be a quorum. There may be nominations from the floor, too.

Anyone who knows that they are not going to be able to be there can ask for a proxy form and cast their vote for a person they know is running using the proxy.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Susan,

Why a proxy form; why not a ballot to mail in? Frankly, I think it's best to mail a ballot to each member.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Mary,
All the prior talk on this subject has convinced me that proxys should be done away with and Mail in Ballets should be used, period. Vote for the people on the slate, no assignments, allow candidates to be added if nominated at annual meeting. Allow and encourage members to submit their ballet at annual meeting.

Mail in ballets can not be changed.

Of course all this only works well with owners participation. That is the Boards and all owners responsibility to act towards the betterment of the association, and that includes getting out the vote. We do it several times a year in local, region and national erlections. Have you looked at your e-mails lately at all the clever stuff you receive designed to get your vote. We see hundreds a year and yet would not stop your neighbor and ask him to be sure to vote at the meeting or with his mail-in ballot.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Robert,

I agree and that is exactly what AZ did several years ago. I've not heard of any problems because of it either. Of course I'm not privy to everything that goes on in every assn in the state. Don't know why not, but I'm not! LOL

The other problem I see with proxies is that far too many people don't seem to understand them and to make matters worse, there are several types of proxies that can be used. Some assn boards will only accept the proxy they've mailed to the h/o; whether that's legal or not, it's what they do. I really don't see the need for a proxy if the ballots are allowed to be mailed in. This really promotes the idea that each member should be filling out his own ballot. And, it eliminates the potential for voter fraud.

AZ is encouraging voters to use mail-in ballots. I've worked at the polls for a number of years and I've seen an increase in mail-in ballots. Perhaps one day there will be no more polls open on election day as everyone will be required to mail in their ballot.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Mary,
Very wise thoughtful post. Of course we have had this conversation here before, and have to deal with what directions, rules, or whatever is in the documents. A progressive board not afraid of hard work could take their documents and research what needs to be done to conform to existing regulations and I think for a large number could do away with proxies and go to strictly mail in voting, should be possible to also vote by e-mail in some circumstances.
That would be a boon for all those that thinks majority vote dictates how to run HOA's. It would be sort of like Dancing with the Stars. Tune in next week to find out if you can still take your Jack Daniels to the pool area in the bottle, or do you have to keep it in an unbreakable flask. Tongue in cheek there about the pool, the Board is still charged with running the train.
Speaking to National elections, your question; is mail in (electronic vote) coming? Fair question.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

We have nothing in our documents that use proxies for anything other than for people to cast their vote. We don't use them to establish a quorum. We must have live bodies at the meeting to conduct an election.

Unless there is a system (nominations closed and ballot printed by a certain date) I think that from the floor nominations are so important and need to be protected as a viable election modallity.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

I agree floor nominations and write in should never be curtailed. I think many associations have their level for quorum set way to high.

None of this works well if you don't have owner interest.........none of it. As seems to be prevalent across the country if postings here can be used as a measure; the complex will probably end up being run by a small(very small) number of concerned members. Certainly, I can't see any reason to believe the Board members all contribute, some may end up being the only ones that contribute at all. But that doesn't mean the majority of boards don't work hard and keep the place from chaos, they do, and do yeomans work. I mean this to be: work hard, keep the records, be responsible, manage, and are a member of the common class.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Robert & Susan,

When AZ law changed several years ago to prohibit proxies and require mail-in ballots, nominations from the floor were also outlawed. This was not done intentionally, but resulted because of the way the statute was worded making certain requirements regarding the mail-in ballots. There are 1,700 members in my assn and at our annual meeting last week there were 36 members in attendance, including 4 board members and 2 advisory committee members. Nominations from the floor would be absolutely meaningless in our assn; but I do agree in some assn's it may be the only way to elect a board.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Mary,
I don't know about it being the only way sometimes to elect a Board, but I just think it does no harm to have the option and it should be there. Which is not going to change AZ Law. We are due for some HOA/condo legislation, maybe this year, who knows, but I sort of dread what this will change that is good that we do have in condo Law.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Cora and Bob are in a Mobile Home park and follow Statutes 723. For lack of anything better to do, I went to read them and I can understand why the posters and their association are at a loss for direction on good election terminology. Florida IS unique in the fact that there are masses of "seasonal" owners, which makes getting elections and other business done because of the H.O.s being missing. The 723 does allow for proxies, probably because of the situation of the ownsership.

The proxy use for 723 are considered "limited" because they can be used for only the time, place and vote which they are written for. Knowing this, the mobile park association MUST and SHOULD start uusing mail-in ballots. Everyone is required to give their up-north address(that's what we call them.) I see going to mail in ballots as the best solution to what they are going thru.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

DonnaS,
When I read your post a thought came to mind. I certainly agree absentee owners do present some challenges, and not voting or participating is one of them. I expect others have the same experiences, the absentee owner shows up once in a while, rarely during the tourist season, nice people as a rule and friendly to talk to, but mention attending an annual meeting or volunteer for a committee and a veil drops over their eyes. It is no longer one of my big hang-ups anymore as I think I am somewhat immune and accept most of the associations are run by a small number of people. I appreciate them all the more.
But the thought your post provoked:
Has any association tried to incorporate in their documents that it is a requirement to vote, or a fine will be levied? Or something on that order.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Robert,

You wrote- "Has any association tried to incorporate in their documents that it is a requirement to vote, or a fine will be levied? Or something on that order."

In my and your perfect world, we could require them to vote or they hang---but this isn't a perfect world. Voting is a privledge or is it a right? Either way, I guess that people just accept the fact that they CAN vote but maybe don't feel like it today.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Donna,
I am not sure about this being that cut and dried. It appears to me associations have some authority that states and federal don't require.
Such as agreeing to pay assessments to live in your own property.

Just an idea.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Robert,

With all the rules already in place in an HOA, adding one that would require members to vote or be penalized would definitely cause most all members of HOAs to refer to their BODs as the GESTAPO!! Frankly, I think that would be going a bit too far.

As you know, our local and fed elections do not even have that requirement and I believe they are much, much more important that HOA BOD elections. My philosophy has always been that if you can't get out to vote then keep your mouth shut about what's going on that you don't like!

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

I guess the difference is in what is required per the deed restrictions and voting is not normally included in them. Voting being required? Wow, that might be a great arguement for this site. Is it constitutional to require people to vote? Hummmm

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

I should add. My attitude is really a black or white one. IF you don't vote, then you have no say. keep your complaints and your mouth shut. That goes for everything. including the Presidental elections down to your HOA.(Today must be a real hard nose day for me)

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Donna and Mary,
In view of a constructive effort, let me ask you both a question. You both are very insistent that if you don't vote, you don't deserve a say, and should keep your mouth shut. As Dr. Phil liked to say a few years ago, "How's that working for you."

I really think you both would agree, associations would operate better if they had more owner input, at least you would have a bigger talent pool. For discussion: Would it violate a constitutional right? Would the requirement to vote pass state Laws? Could the association fine those that didn't vote? How would this effect the volunteers that seek a Board position. If all voting was done by mail-in ballot and all votes could be used against quorum at annual meeting, would anyone attend the meeting.

This is just something that popped into my mind and I am sure it won't be long before someone will post why this can't be done. But, maybe out there is an association that has mandatory voting. I never heard of such a thing but what do I know.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

I forgot to mention.
This is not on a level with our government elections. Our laws state an age requirement to vote, residency and all kinds of stuff, but it speaks to the people. This would only speak to those association members, and they did sign on the for trip, and accepted other restrictions that do not apply to the (people).

BillieR1 (Texas)
Posts: 3

Posted:

I am new to this forum.
I am also the President of our HOA in TX.

After much research, discussion and coordination with our very experienced attorney, our BOD decided to amend our current bylaws re: Proxies to include absentee ballots. Both will be counted for quorum purposes at the Annual Meeting. BTW, as a point of interest, in TX two statues apply to HOAs like ours. TX Condominium Act and TX Business Organization Code (non-profits). IAW these statues our BOD has the authority to amend bylaws. After 15 years of garbled CCRs, we restated our declaration and bylaws this past year. Lots of hard work and lots of coordination with our attorney. Mission accomplished and filed at the County Courthouse Dec, 2014. We have a superb web site with a member only login section. ALL information about our HOA is posted there and a contact form is available for members to contact the BOD, Management, or the Web Coordinator.

OK, back to the main point. Many larger HOAs, our included, have a large number of owners who do not reside at the complex. We also have some Part time residents (we called them Winter Texans)who are here for six months. Tropical So. TX versus frozen tundra up North

. Thus, with a 51% requirement for a quorum at the Annual Meeting, and proxies only we do not meet the quorum threshold. Thus the inclusion of absentee ballots. As an aside, the proxy process at our HOA has long had a history of corruption which I will not go into here. THat's why AZ and some other states are disallowing them in HOAs--correctly. HOAs are a representative form of governance, not unlike the Federal Gov't, State Gov't and City Gov't. These gov'ts all use absentee ballots. They also establish a window of opportunity for all qualified voters anywhere in the world to REQUEST an absentee ballot. Now, we have long past the use of USPS (snail mail) for doing business. Our abentee ballots--requests, providing, and return is all do via the Internet. Fast, efficient and effective.

Anything else?

Billie

BillieR1 (Texas)
Posts: 3

Posted:

I am new to this forum.
I am also the President of our HOA in TX.

After much research, discussion and coordination with our very experienced attorney, our BOD decided to amend our current bylaws re: Proxies to include absentee ballots. Both will be counted for quorum purposes at the Annual Meeting. BTW, as a point of interest, in TX two statues apply to HOAs like ours. TX Condominium Act and TX Business Organization Code (non-profits). IAW these statues our BOD has the authority to amend bylaws. After 15 years of garbled CCRs, we restated our declaration and bylaws this past year. Lots of hard work and lots of coordination with our attorney. Mission accomplished and filed at the County Courthouse Dec, 2014. We have a superb web site with a member only login section. ALL information about our HOA is posted there and a contact form is available for members to contact the BOD, Management, or the Web Coordinator.

OK, back to the main point. Many larger HOAs, our included, have a large number of owners who do not reside at the complex. We also have some Part time residents (we called them Winter Texans)who are here for six months. Tropical So. TX versus frozen tundra up North

. Thus, with a 51% requirement for a quorum at the Annual Meeting, and proxies only we do not meet the quorum threshold. Thus the inclusion of absentee ballots. As an aside, the proxy process at our HOA has long had a history of corruption which I will not go into here. THat's why AZ and some other states are disallowing them in HOAs--correctly. HOAs are a representative form of governance, not unlike the Federal Gov't, State Gov't and City Gov't. These gov'ts all use absentee ballots. They also establish a window of opportunity for all qualified voters anywhere in the world to REQUEST an absentee ballot. Now, we have long past the use of USPS (snail mail) for doing business. Our abentee ballots--requests, providing, and return is all do via the Internet. Fast, efficient and effective.

Anything else?

Billie

BillieR1 (Texas)
Posts: 3

Posted:

I am new to this forum.
I am also the President of our HOA in TX.

After much research, discussion and coordination with our very experienced attorney, our BOD decided to amend our current bylaws re: Proxies to include absentee ballots. Both will be counted for quorum purposes at the Annual Meeting. BTW, as a point of interest, in TX two statues apply to HOAs like ours. TX Condominium Act and TX Business Organization Code (non-profits). IAW these statues our BOD has the authority to amend bylaws. After 15 years of garbled CCRs, we restated our declaration and bylaws this past year. Lots of hard work and lots of coordination with our attorney. Mission accomplished and filed at the County Courthouse Dec, 2014. We have a superb web site with a member only login section. ALL information about our HOA is posted there and a contact form is available for members to contact the BOD, Management, or the Web Coordinator.

OK, back to the main point. Many larger HOAs, our included, have a large number of owners who do not reside at the complex. We also have some Part time residents (we called them Winter Texans)who are here for six months. Tropical So. TX versus frozen tundra up North

. Thus, with a 51% requirement for a quorum at the Annual Meeting, and proxies only we do not meet the quorum threshold. Thus the inclusion of absentee ballots. As an aside, the proxy process at our HOA has long had a history of corruption which I will not go into here. THat's why AZ and some other states are disallowing them in HOAs--correctly. HOAs are a representative form of governance, not unlike the Federal Gov't, State Gov't and City Gov't. These gov'ts all use absentee ballots. They also establish a window of opportunity for all qualified voters anywhere in the world to REQUEST an absentee ballot. Now, we have long past the use of USPS (snail mail) for doing business. Our abentee ballots--requests, providing, and return is all do via the Internet. Fast, efficient and effective.

Anything else?

Billie

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Billie,

Welcome to the forum. Great information. However, we try not to reactivate old threads (in this case the thread started in 2009). The reason is the as laws change, what was good information in 2009 may not be good information today. Additionally, it's possible that the original poster is no longer active in the forum.