Directors 2 in the same Household

Started by RennaeB • 19 replies • 1984 views

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RennaeB (Nevada)
Posts: 1

Posted:

We have a current Board Member running for re-election he wants to be president he says, and his wife turned in a nomination form she is pretty difficult to deal with. Their is nothing in or documents that prevent this. However I am very concerned about the liability that the association could incurr. Any feed back or help you can supply will be greatly appreciated.

Thank You

RogerM (Florida)
Posts: 18

Posted:

I'm in Central Florida. I have the same situation - a 5 person Board, with a husband and wife as members of the Board. Everyone will readily appreciate how much they dominate every decision. Our HOA Articles and By-Laws do not provide any guidance for such a situation. Does anyone have any advice to offer?

AudreyB (Florida)
Posts: 104

Posted:

Hi Rennae,

We had the same situation here when we bought our home. He was President, and she was a board member, and she was and still is difficult to deal with. Now he's a board member, and she is not. Nor is she on any committee, but calls the other board members for him and gives them heck over stuff that's none of her business. Just hope he gets elected and she doesn't.

If, you have time before elections to hold a special meeting to form a quorum, see about amending your documents to read, "only one spouse per house hold allowed to sit on the board at one time. Only one spouse's signature or voice for votes per household."

What does not make sense to me is, it is written in most HOA documents, "only one vote per household," but both can be on the board at the same time?

I wish you good luck.

AudreyB

MartyD (Florida)
Posts: 43

Posted:

What the board votes on and what the membership vote on are two different items.
This is why it is appropriate for two individuals from the same household to be on boards today...With the lack of volunteers most board are happy to get what they can...

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Here's the tricky part. There should be a rule : "1 vote per household/owner". It's most likely in the section of voting rights. It isn't in the election or board sections. Only owner's can vote and only the deeded owner can. If it is co-owned, it's still one vote. A HOA can't have 100 homes with 110 votes. Doesn't add up.
We had a husband/wife board members in our HOA. However, they decided that they would "switch off" each year. One ran as a board member alternating years. That way they still had their 1 vote and input. In some HOA's due to the lack of partipatiion, members may feel okay with a husband/wife team regardless of the one vote issue. It's really on how comfortable the members are with it. I've met some couples who ran their HOA and it was accepted.
You also have to take into consideration other issues. What powers do the board have over regular members? There are many items that are still up to the regular members to decide. The board is just REPRESENTATIVES of the majority that handle daily decisions. Overall, it may just mean their opinion/direction may be a little more dominant but still limited by the entire membership.

Former HOA President

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

The one vote per household refers to just items that all homeowner vote on, it does not refer to Board votes unless it is specifically set out in the CC&R's. Also, bear in mind that most communities start out with the stipulation that board members don't need to be members, some change that after taking over from a developer, others don't. The board votes are different and in my opinion a husband/wife or other combination can be on the board at the same time.

Let's put a little wrinkle on it, if your association is set up that you don't have to be a member to be on the board, what would prevent a teenager from serving with one or both of their parents? We don't have age restrictions in ours. You could in theory have two parents and one or two teenage children dominant the board.

CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BradP on 03/22/2007 6:35 PM
The one vote per household refers to just items that all homeowner vote on, it does not refer to Board votes unless it is specifically set out in the CC&R's. Also, bear in mind that most communities start out with the stipulation that board members don't need to be members, some change that after taking over from a developer, others don't. The board votes are different and in my opinion a husband/wife or other combination can be on the board at the same time.

Let's put a little wrinkle on it, if your association is set up that you don't have to be a member to be on the board, what would prevent a teenager from serving with one or both of their parents? We don't have age restrictions in ours. You could in theory have two parents and one or two teenage children dominant the board.

BradP,

That would indeed put a “kink” in the whole process. I know in my HOA community (Georgia) any person/persons (wanting to be a board member) name would need to be on the deed. So unless the child’s name was on the deed, he/she wouldn’t be a board member in our HOA.

Unfortunately it wouldn’t maker how old or how young he/she are. There are certain criteria that make it nearly impossible for that particular situation to occur.

Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Charles:

Yours is set up to prevent it. Ours isn't, in ours you don't need to be a member and there is no age you need to be to be a board member. In theory I could nominate my wife and my 7 year old son and 5 year old daughter to be on the board. Hopefully homeowners would be smart enough not to vote an entire family onto a board but you never know.

WilliamT (Arizona)
Posts: 489

Posted:

Brad, the insurance company will most likely require any board member to be at least 18 years old. Ours does.

A person under 18 cannot enter into a binding contract so I suspect the reason is that they could not enter into an agreement with the association to take on the fiduciary responsibilities of the association that is required of board members.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

William, good point. Plus my son would only be concerned about buying video games for the common area.

PaulN (New York)
Posts: 11

Posted:

This is not allowed. If you check your By-Laws you will see there should state something to that effect. The other reason is the fiduciary obligations to the community. Having two on the board can effect this obligation.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Paul:

Our bylaws say nothing about more than one member of a household serving. It is allowed where I am.

GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829

Posted:

Rennea:

In your orignial post you stated that the wife nominated the husband, a wife can nominate the spouse. However in most states the Bylaws and CCR's say that there shall be no split votes. Therefore husband and wife serving on the board in voting positions is not permitted. Now if the husband served as a voting board member and she served as a non-voting member there would be no conflict of interest.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Gloria:

Are you sure about that. Board member votes are different than homeowner votes. As I have said before our documents allow non-members to be board members. According to our docs there is only one vote per lot. From what you are saying we could have an entire board consisting of non-members and none of them would have a vote?

JC3
Posts: 290

Posted:

You're all talking of spouses. What of two siblings, or two cousins, or housemates (2 (or more) unmarried people buying a house together and all names on the deed--or inheriting the place, having board voting rights?

BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418

Posted:

I would check the property appraiser’s website and see who is listed on the deed. Then check your by-laws about who can and can not be a board member. Some allow people outside the homeowner to be on the board and some don't. If she is not listed and your by-laws say only owners can be on the board you might have her there.

Our covenants say one house, one vote. Do they both vote and count the votes separate in board meetings? That seems like a violation to me.

But you do have a much bigger problem than that when you have two people from the same household, especially in Florida. The law says that you can't have a majority of the board get together and discuss any HOA business without giving at least 48 hour notice to the community by sign or 168 hour notice by mail (http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0720/ch0720.htm FS 720.303). The sunshine law governing corporations has a similar clause and this is to prevent secret meetings and things going on in private. Whenever a quorum meets that is a problem and can open your HOA up to lawsuits. For a board of 5 that means they can't have another board member over to their house at all without potentially violating that law.

GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829

Posted:

In Rennea's original topic she asked if the wife could nominate the husband, and the answer is yes. However both of them serving on the board as voting members the answer would be no. The reason for the latter of my answer is because most CCR's and Bylaws state that there is one vote per lot, there shall be no split votes.

Always check with your governing documents because here in NC some of them read that you do not even have to own a home to serve on the board. So in some communities here in NC if an Owner wanted to nominate an outsider (who accepted the nomination) could possibly serve on a board without being a Deed Holder. A scary thought I know, my belief is that the Owners are the ones with the vested interest and it should only be a board comprise of Owners.

But if a Mother and Daughter lived in one house and the Mother served on the Board the daughter, sister, Aunt or cousin could serve as a committee member. If a Mother owned a home and her son owned a home within the same development the mother and son could potentially serve on the board as voting board members, because they both own a lot and have 1 vote each.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Gloria:

I disagree, how would you explain having board members that are not in your community? Ours allow them, so if they are not members and are board members they can't vote? In theory we could have all seven of our board positions filled by non-members, then nothing would get done as none would be able to vote? Board votes and the one vote per lot you reference are two totally seperate things. In my opinion it is allowed, unless your docs speak directly to not having more than one member of a lot on the board at one time.

BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418

Posted:

I agree with Brad. The "one house, one vote" rule is for issues that members vote but would not apply to the Board. Your documents would tell you who can and can not be a board member. My Association documents say that Board Members do not have to be Members of the Association but the Officers do. I can't find any flaw in the logic that Brad presented and believe that at least in my Association's situation that a court would find the same way (in particular if the spouse is not on the deed).

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

As with so many questions, the correct answer is in the CC&Rs and/or By Laws of your particular association. In ours, directors need not be members (homeowners if you will) and there is no restriction on members of the same household or family from serving on the board. In theory, all five could be related and none of them own property in the development.

It's highly unlikely that this would happen. The membership votes for the people they think will best represent them. If two or more are related, that's fine under our documents.

And it's not just our association. Bill could have had Hillary for VP if he had chosen to. ;)

Ron
SC

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