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KM1 (FL)
Posts: 62
Posted:
FL HOA here. Requesting your educated opinion on interpretation of the following sections in our Articles.

"Enumeration of Officers. The officers of this Association shall be President and Vice President, who shall at all times be members of the Board of Directors, a Secretary, and a Treasurer, and such other officers as the Board may from time to time by resolution create."

Question 1 - What is the difference between a Director and an Officer? I thought all of the BOD were "officers"? I'm led to believe there is a difference in that the articles denote a Director may be removed with or without cause (wow!) from the BOD by a majority vote of Members, while an Officer may be removed with or without cause by the BOD only (not Members). Why would this be different?

"Election of Officers. The election of officers shall take place at the first meeting of the BOD prior to the beginning of the fiscal year. The BOD shall re-affirm the election of officers as directed by Members election of Directors."

Question 2 - Huh? Given our Articles provide that election to the BOD is by Members and proxies (done by mail ballot this year), is the BOD/Nominating Committee supposed to recommend what each officer position is to be held by candidate's name?

With the mailed out ballot this year was a slate of candidates and by five names were a suggested position, e.g. "John Doe - President, Jane Brown - Director" and so forth. (No officer positions were suggested on the slate for the four self-nominees.) The ballot coversheet directed "Please write an office to be held by the name of whomever you chose on the ballot so the Board can elect Officers according to your wishes." The ballot coversheet cited the preceding Election of Officers reference as "subject to interpretation" because a current BOD member advised the BOD before the ballot went out that BOD positions were supposed to be hashed out among the newly elected Directors. Previously when I was elected to a BOD in TX, the Members elected the BOD and everyone was "Directors" until the following first BOD meeting where we all then decided who would hold what position. I admit, the wording "the BOD shall re-affirm the election of officers as directed by Members" is confusing.

As a self nominee, I feel all self nominees are disadvantaged because how would the Members know what officer position to put next to our names, since the Nominating Committee didn't suggest one? Thoughts, anyone, please?

Also of interest, none of the slate-suggested officer positions recommended a Secretary (only Pres, VP, Treasurer, and two Directors). Okay, the BOD could argue per the articles that a Secretary isn't REQUIRED; however, secretarial duties have been performed by the Office Mananger (who is the Treasurer/Nominating Committee Chairman's wife - and this Treasurer was suggested as President on the 2010 slate)...and word has it she is very busy and may have been approved for a pay raise this year. I'm in over my head here, and don't know what to think or do!
MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432
Posted:
Hello, FL HOA.

My TX HOA documents read similar to yours (except about the re-affirming), and they are probably derived from a commonly used template.

A Director is a member of the Board of Directors. In this context, an officer refers to a specific Office (such as Pres, VP, Sec, Treas). Sometimes "officer" can be used more generally to mean any position (such as Director), but it is often used by people to mean "Director", who just haven't read their governing documents or don't understand the BoD structure.

According to your governing documents (and mine), the BoD can choose (by resolution and vote) who will be the Officers, and the BoD can change that at any time. The BoD is required to choose Officers annually at a particular BoD meeting, and it can change who these Officers are at any other time. Do your documents call for Directors to be elected annually at the end or beginning of the Fiscal Year -- just before the BoD meeting where the (new?) Directors select the Officers? Do your documents also have a provision (perhaps under Removal or Vacancy of Officers) to the effect that any office vacated by removal, resignation, or death (or failure to elect) will be filled by the resolution and vote of the BoD?

The Membership chooses who these Directors are (by voting in election), and they can also remove Directors. Obviously, it's fairly easy for the Board to meet and vote (and remove and select Officers), but much more difficult to get the Membership to vote in sufficient numbers to do anything, especially outside of the Annual Meeting/Election and without initiative of the BoD.

(I prefer to use the term "Member" to mean a Member of the Association and "Director" instead of "member of the Board" to avoid confusion over which kind of member of what. I prefer to say the BoD "selects" or "chooses" Officers, reserving the term "election" for the Membership electing Directors, also to avoid confusion of terms.)

Some HOA's (perhaps not very many) have the Members elect Officers directly -- I think they may vote for individuals to fill specific Offices or to serve as Directors-at-Large if they have a BoD with more Director seats than Offices. My HOA (and perhaps most) elect Directors without any direct say about who will be the Officers, leaving that entirely to the BoD (what you cited for your former HOA). If you don't mind, could you tell us in which city in TX your former HOA is located, please?

The last statement that you quote from your documents is not clear to me. (Anyone else seen something phrased like this?) "The BoD shall re-affirm the election of Officers as directed by the Members' election of Directors" suggests that the Members have some direct say in who the Officers are. This is consistent with suggesting Offices on the ballot and asking Members to vote on that, also. I think a reasonable interpretation is that the Members will elect Directors and indicate Officers, and the elected Board of Directors will then select Officers based on this indication by the Members, but the BoD may also remove and select Officers at any time.

This would have the effect of making the Members' vote on Officers a non-binding petition. I think both the governing docs (probably your Bylaws) and the ballot are phrased in a vague and confusing manner, and I also think it's a foolish and dysfunctional hybrid. This may have resulted from someone taking a template for HOA Bylaws and then trying to give the Membership slightly more say in the governing structure.

I think it would make more sense to amend this to say that the BoD alone determines who the Officers are or the Membership elects the Officers directly. I think the former makes more sense; but that would be up to your HOA, and should probably depend on its size. (Posts here about Associations that elect Officers directly in elections suggest that these tend to be pretty small HOA's.) How big is your current HOA, please, and how big was your former HOA?

I agree that the procedure on your ballots may create two classes of candidates -- those recommended for specific Office or for none, and those for which the voting Member is also asked to decide on an office. It almost screams to vote for the recommended slate, because it is easier. It would be fairer to make no recommendations about office (and to otherwise not distinguish between nominees on the ballot). This could still provide for the Members to indicate Officers on the ballot.

According to your quotes, a Secretary is required, but the Secretary need not be a Director. I would wonder how potential conflicts of interest are handled, with respect to decisions about the Office Manager's compensation.

Others who are familiar with Florida HOA statutes and/or have more governance experience will probably offer good, relevant suggestions for your situation.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
KM1,

Michael has it right. I'll try to simplify it a little.

Directors are elected by the membership to serve on the Board of directors and "direct" policy and oversee general operation of the Association.

Officers are appointed by the Board of Directors and should run the day to day business of the Association.

Officers usually do not need to be members of the Association or even Directors of the Association (they can be contractors, employees, management companies, etc.).

Your Associations governing documents say that you must have at least four officers and name their positions; President, VP, Secretary and Treasurer.
Your governing documents also stipulate that of those four officers the President and VP must also be a director. This doesn't prevent the secretary or treasurer from also being a director.

As for the reaffirming of the officers, since the officers are appointed prior to the start of the fiscal year (perhaps by the old board), the new board of directors must agree to keep the officers appointed or replace them at the first meeting of the new fiscal year. I would need to read more of the governing documents to give a better answer.

Hope this helps.

Tim

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Directors can be removed by the Membership. Any director-officer would be removed at that time, too. The BOD can remove an officer, but that officer might retain director status.

The BOD selects the officers from the directors.

The sentence: "Election of Officers. The election of officers shall take place at the first meeting of the BOD prior to the beginning of the fiscal year. The BOD shall re-affirm the election of officers as directed by Members election of Directors." simply means that the BOD must elect its officers from the duly elected directors and announce it to the Membership. IMHO.

DennisT (Ohio)
Posts: 109
Posted:
As an example of appointing officers other than the usual four we had a fire that caused considerable damage to part of the property. As you can imagine with over a dozen insurance policies for the affected owners plus the association's policy things got pretty complicated when it came time to rebuild. There was a period of time where multiple decisions had to be made on a daily basis and authorization documents had to be executed. We appointed an owner who was a lawyer as the "Reconstruction Officer." He had experience dealing with insurance policies and was donating his services to the association. He was given certain powers and was permitted to sign documents on behalf of the association concerning certain matters. He worked closely with the property manager and adjuster to handle matters where formal approval from the association was required.

Without such an appointment we pretty much had to have a regular officer (pres, vice pres, etc) on call every day for when issues came up. This was a problem when everyone on the board had full time jobs. Making matters worse none of us had the requisite knowledge of insurance law so we would have been in a position of making decisions on matters that we had only a basic knowledge of.

We established rigid guidelines about what the position could and could not do and put in place an oversight procedure. With regular communication between this officer and the rest of the board it worked out pretty well. Once the repairs were completed we thanked him for his service at the association "Welcome Back" party and abolished the position.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Glad this turned out so well for your HOA. It was a wise thing to do.

However, since this "officer" was not elected, rather appointed, I would have encouraged the name "Agent" instead of officer. There would be no confusion when signing contracts or speaking for the HOA.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Board of Directors (sometimes called Board of Advisors, Board of Governors or Board of Trustees):

Individuals elected by a corporation's (organization's) shareholders (in the case of associations, the membership) to oversee the management of the corporation/organization. The members of a Board of Directors for Homeowners Associations are generally not paid, meet several times each year, and assume legal responsibility for corporate/association/organization activities.

Officers:

Titles and/or positions that members of the Board of Directors hold responsible for specific duties. In some organizations/corporations, the officers do not necessarily have to be members of the Board of Directors. The Officers are generally elected or appointed by the Directors. Officers generally serve at the pleasure of the Board of Directors, unless the articles of incorporation or bylaws state otherwise.

Many HOAs and COAs and the like are fairly small corporations/organizations. Generally a member of the Board of Directors will wear both hats, that of Director and, if appointed/elected by his/her fellow Board Members, an Officer hat, either President, Vice President, Secretary or Treasurer.

In the case of your HOA, I don't think that you should have had anyone listed as John Doe - President.

It appears that the board elects the officers, so the election ballots sent to the membership should only be electing DIRECTORS, and then the directors would in turn elect the President and Vice President, and then Sec or Treasurer if your board feels it wants those two offices filled.

What do your documents say about the Election of DIRECTORS?
DennisT (Ohio)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 12/01/2009 6:28 AM
Glad this turned out so well for your HOA. It was a wise thing to do.

However, since this "officer" was not elected, rather appointed, I would have encouraged the name "Agent" instead of officer. There would be no confusion when signing contracts or speaking for the HOA.

Unfortunately we didn't have a choice, our bylaws were very specific on who could sign documents on behalf of the association. I forget how it was worded but it was something to the effect of "no person, including any Director, officer, partner, unit owner, (etc, etc) excepting the duly elected President or Vice President in the absence of the President may execute any legal document, excepting checks signed by the Treasurer, on behalf of the Association, provided that the Board may, by majority vote, authorize other Directors or appointed Officers to execute such documents for good cause." Then there was an exception that said the previous provision did not apply to the registered agent of the corporation for the purposes of maintaining incorporation with the Secretary of State.

One of our stipulations was that he had to sign all documents as "His Name, Esquire - Officer, HOA name" It made it clear he wasn't signing in a personal capacity. Which, by the way, is always a good idea no matter what role you have. I always signed documents as "Dennis T, President, HOA Name" and the treasurer always put the word Treasurer after her signature on checks.
KM1 (FL)
Posts: 62
Posted:
MichaelK,

-Per our articles, Directors serve for one year. Nomination to the BOD is made by the Nominating Committee, who is appointed by the BOD prior to the annual meeting of Members. So yes, I interpret this as happening annually at the end of our fiscal year (which begins Jan). And yes, it appears that both Directors and BOD vacancies may be selected/appointed by the BOD.

-My former HOA city was San Antonio, TX. My current HOA is just under 90, while in TX it was approx 115.

Thanks for your thoughts, Michael. I agree a lot of the bylaw election wording is confusing, and the ballot coversheet admitted this as well. Knowing this it's too bad the bylaws weren't clarified with the official amended CCRs update last year!
KM1 (FL)
Posts: 62
Posted:
MicheleD,

The docs provide that the Board of Directors shall be written by secret ballot by the Members. We Members have received our ballots in the mail, but I've talked to a few neighbors that were just as confused as I about writing in an Officer position next to the candidate.

Thanks for the info!
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KM1 on 12/01/2009 7:03 PM
MicheleD,

The docs provide that the Board of Directors shall be written by secret ballot by the Members. We Members have received our ballots in the mail, but I've talked to a few neighbors that were just as confused as I about writing in an Officer position next to the candidate.

Thanks for the info!

The officer "position" listed next to any director nomination on the ballot is void. Your documents do not allow for the membership to elect the officers, so it's a moot designation. The resident on the nomination will win a seat at the board of directors only if he secures enough votes.

The board of directors will then vote from among those who won to determine who is to fill the president and vice president officer positions.

In fact, if I were you, were I to "vote" for this person, I would make a line through the word "officer," cast my vote and place a note on the ballot that states: "Per our governing documents, the membership is not allowed to vote for OFFICERS. This vote is cast for this member as a DIRECTOR only."
KM1 (FL)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Michele, I may just do that, but I feel certain that the confusing reference of "The BOD shall re-affirm the election of officers as directed by Members election of Directors" will be cited (twisted?) as justifying the ballot as distributed.

I've lived here for a year and last year did not receive a ballot (nor did my neighbor) and there is no indication of an annual meeting (I didn't notice this having lived here only 2 months in at that time) or publically counted ballots. We only received a newsletter in March citing who the BOD was with brief bios. So for a year either the Members [we] didn't notice or were just apathetic. A few of us are slowly getting smarter, and I emailed a recommended election process to the BOD president, but received no response. Perhaps I should present this at the annual meeting to be addressed by the new BOD to ensure we have a less confusing election for 2011.
MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432
Posted:
Perhaps you should discuss this with the President and/or a few Directors sometime in the next week or so.

Was an Annual Meeting not noticed with this year's ballot? Is one required by your governing documents? It's a ballot and not a proxy, right?

Would you care to post your governing documents here (as attachments)?
MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432
Posted:
Do you see any indications of problems about the way the HOA is run, apart from electoral procedures and confusing documents?
KM1 (FL)
Posts: 62
Posted:
MichaelK,

I've been talking to several concerned homeowners that have raised concerns about how the HOA has been run, and are comparing notes and trying to gather facts and choose an approach. This hasn't been easy, as one member is one that is a 2009 Director who saw the election process was sketchy and spoke out at the BOD meeting about how candidates were selected without advising the neighborhood the selection process was transpiring. He also cited how some areas of our bylaws may conflict with HOA FL Statutes. The Office Manager/appointed Secretary stormed out and slammed the door, which discredited her professionalism and practically confirmed previous allegations that his reasonable concerns were met with much resistance. Shortly after I sent a proposed Election Agenda to the President and advised I was trying to help mediate the situation, and highly recommended appointing a neutral Election Inspector (not using the Manager/Sec who is married to a candidate) to count the votes publically. From talking to he and other directors I can safely assume this has NOT been done before. In fact, a few members are highly suspicious there was not a legitimate election last year. Anyway, I called the President and told him of my email and advised I wanted to help mediate the situation and help us all get through this election in a way that would satisfy all. He sounded receptive but I have since emailed and no response. One day I missed his call and called back twice, but he didn't call again.

I just tried the post the docs, but it is a .pdf and appears anything over 200kb size is not allowed. Proxies MAY be used, but mail ballots were sent out and is also allowed. The mailed package included the ballot (with cutoff date to mail back) with a coversheet citing the confusing election references from our bylaws, and stated parts were "subject to interpretation." Furthermore put a blurb stating "Mr. Brown, a current board member objected to listing Officers to be elected on the ballot. The Board agreed to his request. The ballot does not specify positions. The names of those nominated by the committee appear on the biographies. Please write an office to be held by the name of whomever you chose on the ballot so the Board can elect Officers according to your wishes." The package also had a newsletter attached that advised of our dues increasing, and the date and time of the annual meeting. Neither the ballot nor newsletter state how/when the votes will be counted. Also confusing is that the newsletter has a letter from the president stating he is stepping down. A Treasurer's Report from the treasure also included a note stating he was stepping down. HOWEVER, both of these gentlemen are on the ballot and the bios suggest the 2009 President will be a Director and the 2009 Treasurer is suggested to be President for 2010.

A week later a letter was sent out to some Members by the Manager/Secretary (byline signed as "homeowner") citing "I have been informed that emails and other means of communication...therefore I find it necessary to communicate the facts...this is the first time such an attempted take-over of the Board has occured. A disgruntled board member, because of his overbearing personality and not being nominated by the Nominating Committee for a second year is on a vindictive path...." Included are some details about disagreements on budget issues which may be factual but naturally is designed to paint the one BOD member in a negative light. In the end the letter states "his misdirected vindictive behavior effected everyone he contacted about those whom he believes have thwarted his extreme attempts at micromanaging and selfish power seeking...not appropriate for this calm, serene community...."

IMO this one BOD member they speak of has observed the BOD over a year and at the end of this year started raising serious questions about management -- and those in power are not liking it.
MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KM1 on 12/02/2009 4:31 PM
The Office Manager/appointed Secretary stormed out and slammed the door, which discredited her professionalism and practically confirmed previous allegations that his reasonable concerns were met with much resistance.
I think this might also cast suspicion on the independence and reliability of her husband, who I think you said is also a current Director and a candidate for 2010. It's certainly not definitive, although its an indication for concern and illustrates a potential problem with husband/wife (or people with other close relationships) serving together in the governing structure.
Quote:
Posted By KM1 on 12/02/2009 4:31 PM
Shortly after I sent a proposed Election Agenda to the President and advised I was trying to help mediate the situation, and highly recommended appointing a neutral Election Inspector (not using the Manager/Sec who is married to a candidate) to count the votes publically.
I think you are on the right track to mitigate and correct the problem with communication and cooperation. Please continue to try to reach him. Knock on his door one evening after supper, if necessary. How much time do you have before the deadline for returning ballots? BTW, did you say if the Board meetings are monthly? Announced and open for Members to attend?
Quote:
Posted By KM1 on 12/02/2009 4:31 PM
The Board agreed to his request. The ballot does not specify positions. The names of those nominated by the committee appear on the biographies.
This sounds more fair -- there is much less manipulation of the vote on the ballot. Homeowners have to read the biographies to even identify who was recommended by the Nominating Committee. It also shows that there are differing opinions on the Board and Directors who speak up for fairness are heeded.
Quote:
Posted By KM1 on 12/02/2009 4:31 PM
A week later a letter was sent out to some Members by the Manager/Secretary (byline signed as "homeowner") citing "I have been informed that emails and other means of communication...therefore I find it necessary to communicate the facts...this is the first time such an attempted take-over of the Board has occurred. A disgruntled board member, because of his overbearing personality and not being nominated by the Nominating Committee for a second year is on a vindictive path...." Included are some details about disagreements on budget issues which may be factual but naturally is designed to paint the one BOD member in a negative light.
The signature suggests she sent it as a homeowner, rather than as an official. Did she use the management facilities to send it? Did she do so on the HOA's tab? Perhaps she tried to get the Board or other Officers to back her and they refused. (That's a reasonable speculation, but it could also be wrong). You could also send such a letter, or you could take the position that such attacks and responses are inappropriate and divisive. Since she's acting on her own, then that's probably the best thing. There are obviously some (at least one) candidate who see things just like this Director, who were not attacked.

This sounds like a potentially divisive and damaging situation, but one that could be resolved amicably if good-willed and like-minded homeowners take an interest and make the effort to resolve the situation.

Others will probably post useful and specific suggestions about potential actions, relevant statutes, ways to improve the situation, and pitfalls to avoid.
KM1 (FL)
Posts: 62
Posted:
MichaelK,

Other than this years election, here are some of the allegations:
-No election last year, no ballots, no voting, so "illegal" BOD
-Concerns with security of funds, e.g. Members not on BOD signing checks (seen during recent records review)
-CD investment funds only in name of Tresurer, not HOA Corporation
-Treasurer motioning to waive own boat slip fees for year as reimbursement for negotiating city to pay for majority of sewer line damage to our property. The BOD approved this (I witnessed this, but didn't realize at time compensation for BOD is not allowed by bylaws).
-BOD member noticing certain info not included in their doc copy (e.g. meeting minutes) and being advised "you don't have correct copy" and being provided an electronic doc with a saved file date of several days indicating recent change to original copy
-Selective enforcement of HOA bylaws done to favor BOD but enforced for non-BOD

Due to the above allegations two concerned homeowners opted to go to the HOA office onsite to review records with the Office Manager/Secretary. A few records were reviewed and the Member provided a list of records to the Mgr to look at the following day. When Member arrived alone the next day, the door was locked but Mgr directed to wait a moment. The Mgr was alleged to be heard closing file cabinets and phoning husband/Treasurer to come to office right away. Moments later he arrived supposidly very angry and advised Member "I talked to the President and you are not to deal with me or Office Mgr - if you want something go through the President!" and slammed door in Member's face. A sign was then posted in the office window stating only that the office was closed for a week. (Normal office hours are only six hours per week over three days.) Rumor has it that the Mgr and Treasurer are now out of town. IMO, since BOD personal contact info is not posted anywhere nor provided in newsletters, how would any Member reasonably reach the President (who lives offsite as their property is rented)to conduct business?

How much of this is intentional mismanagement or negligence or unintentional ignorance? Thinks are looking very strange and we can only make allegations without being able to see the records. Now we have revealed our hand and IMO it appears there may be a cover up? What to do now??
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
KM:

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, well, you know the drill.

Some of those things, by themselves, may not indicate anything other than just sloppiness.

But taken together, and you communicated them all quite simply and with no perceived bias or "trigger" words, there appears to be something fishy going on.

It appears, however, that you will need more than 2 other members to bring enough sunlight to this dark corner.
KM1 (FL)
Posts: 62
Posted:
MichaelK and All,

I feel terrible airing our HOA's dirty laundry, but a few of us are trying to get smarter. We would like to spin up other Members, but are careful to make allegations without facts, as some of the neighborhood is likely already disgusted with the "drama" suddenly taking place in our previously quiet little community. Ballots are due 14 Dec and the annual meeting is 16 Dec. We are trying to generate a strong attendance and expect a decent presence. We don't know if the ballots will be counted in our presence, and some suspect they may even be tampered with now or "fixed" since the Office Mgr will be in receipt of them. Our concern is that the same BOD members that have perpetuated the alleged improper management will be reelected and proceed status quo. Our bylaws state a duty of the BOD is to "cause to be kept a complete record of all its acts and corporate affairs and to present a statement thereof to the members at the annual meeting of the members, or at any special meeting when such statement is requested in writing by one-fourth of the members entitled to vote." Should we concerned members be petitioning a request to be mailed to the BOD to address at the annual meeting? Should we wait and address the BOD (old/new) at the annual meeting? At this point, what would we even ask of the BOD? For a new election? For resignation of the potential re-elected problematic BOD members? For a recount? For record copies over several past years? I'm trying to be smart, go by-the-book, remain factual, civil, and cooperative...but I don't feel confident any longer in approaching the BOD. Although I've posted mostly about two major key players, the remaining BOD seem to have banded together and are ready to accuse us concerned members as troublemakers. I don't want to ruin neighbors with unsubstantiated allegations (as they have already singled out the one BOD member as doing), but the concerns appear very valid to me and warrant addressing immediately. I'm even worried that if I am vocal and make waves against the BOD, my dues will be "lost" in the mail.

I need advice, as I am overwhelmed by what issues to tackle and in what order. If anyone at all can help advise me, I would truly appreciate it. And no, I don't have money for a lawyer. :-(
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
The Annual Meeting is not the place to bring up all these concerns. There are too many issues. Motion to establish a committee to report back to the members about all these issues.

Focus on the main task to be done: the election.

Work behind the scenes to get those people elected that you think will do a good job.

If people are returned to the BOD that you and your fellow HO's don't like, you have recall recourse.
MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432
Posted:
Looking beyond the election:

What are the recall procedures in your governing documents (probably in the Bylaws)?

You (and the "independent" Director) should be careful to only speak facts when "working behind the scenes". You don't have to speculate or exaggerate – just say what happened (in polite and forgiving terms) and why you are concerned. Have you discussed this enough with that Director to ascertain if he has actually done anything the Manager's letter accused, at least in his discussions with neighbors? If the Manager lied, then she "was clearly mistaken." If she was rude, then she was "emotional and confused". Your neighbors will fill in the blanks more readily if you don't do it for them, and that way you don't have to fear that you went overboard, put people off, misinterpreted events.

You and like-minded neighbors should look into sharing the cost of getting some legal advice. In the meantime, you can find some lawyers who are versed in this area, and see what you can get from initial consultations. (I did that with quite a few.) Some will not be willing to give you anything more than a meet and greet until you hire them, while others will give you some good high-level information and show a bit of their ability. In general, many try to feel out what you want to hear or what will get them some expensive action and feed you that -- try to feel out if they are doing that or considering what will server your interests in practical ways. Google "HOA attorney". Maybe one of your neighbors knows a capable and reliable professional? Splitting several ways an hour or two of advice may prepare you for what is to come.

Bring the Manager's letter -- I doubt it amounts to libel of the Director, but see what the lawyer says. Ask about the Manager's and her husband's possible conflict of interest and about the withholding of records and unavailability of the President. Ask about the other Directors possible collusion and excluding the one from Board communications and decisions. (Asking a lawyer is not the same as speculating to your neighbors.) Don't let a lawyer waste your time talking about suing your HOA or shareholder/member derivative suits or anything that they cannot explain how it is practical for your situation. You just want to know what is legal and protect yourself. The goal is to get your neighbors involved and encourage them to make informed decisions to deal with any problems in their HOA -- not to actually use a lawyer, if you can avoid it.

Keep any emails and take notes of significant events and discussions (such as what you told us here) -- establish a record for future use.

Be factual but polite in your descriptions of events. Even in discussing misconduct, you don't want to be irrationally angry or out to get anyone. Uninformed neighbors will be averse to taking action against their neighbors, and you should consider it as a last resort -- and make that clear in your tone, even if you are already at that stage.

Be prepared -- the Board may refuse to let you speak at the Meeting (declare you out of order).

I hope this helps. I hope others familiar with FL statutes will also make suggestions. Please keep us posted and continue to ask questions.
KM1 (FL)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 12/03/2009 5:46 AM
The Annual Meeting is not the place to bring up all these concerns. There are too many issues. Motion to establish a committee to report back to the members about all these issues.

Focus on the main task to be done: the election.

Work behind the scenes to get those people elected that you think will do a good job.

If people are returned to the BOD that you and your fellow HO's don't like, you have recall recourse.

Thanks Susan, we are trying. Five people self nominated during a BOD meeting, although bylaws say this is to happen at the annual meeting. Had the "independent" BOD member not clued us in on a potentially suspect election process, we would not have self nominated. Then --surprise-- a mailed ballot with a due date prior to the annual meeting and no proxies to allow us to effectively or fairly try to run in the election. We're hoping for the best! Thanks!
KM1 (FL)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MichaelK11 on 12/03/2009 6:29 AM

What are the recall procedures in your governing documents (probably in the Bylaws)?

Have you discussed this enough with that Director to ascertain if he has actually done anything the Manager's letter accused, at least in his discussions with neighbors?

Our bylaws state a Director may be removed from the Board with or without cause by a majority vote of the Members.

The bylaws state an Officer may be removed from office with or without cause by the Board.

There are no other provisions for a recall.

FL HOA Statutes show ss 720.306 (9) ELECTIONS. Elections of directors must be conducted in accordance with the procedures set forth in the governing documents of the association...Any election dispute between a member and an association must be submitted to mandatory binding arbitration with the division. Such proceedings shall be conducted in the manner provided by s. 718.1255 and the procedural rules adopted by the division.
--718.1255 is "Alternative dispute resolution; voluntary mediation; mandatory nonbinding arbitration; legislative findings" under the Condominium statutes.
--"Division" means the Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares, and Mobile Homes in the Department of Business and Professional Regulation.

Regarding the FL Statutes, we have governing docs (2008) with election procedures that do not address how to handle disputes. Does this mean the FL Statute is defaulted to, and our disputes must be addressed by arbitration?! Should we try to request resignation or removal first? Seems difficult to call for a removal if we do not have historical FACTS of mismanagement to substantiate. At what point would one move forward with arbitration?

Three of us members who have self nominated have met several times with the "independent" Director. One of the two "facts" is minutiae regarding 24 hr mtg notice (bylaws) versus 48 notice (FL Statutes). IMO this disagreement was taken out of context to make Director X appear badly. The other statement is interesting. It was about a proposal Director X made for a $900 special assessment. The letter only states this $900 assessment was pushed upon the BOD last minute. I personally spoke to the President and Treasurer when trying to mediate after the Nov BOD meeting, and they cited this same story to me and I saw the source spreadsheet. It's apparent the proposal was one of three options presented. When questioned by us self-nominees, Director X produced the written part of the draft proposal (that explained the source spreadsheet) that the Special Assessment was to replenish capital reserves and accomplish capital repairs. To me developing a proposal was in order because our neighborhood is 30 years old and to my knowledge no capital reserves budget has ever been built (until this year by the property manager - not treasurer) and the Treasurer reported in the last newsletter we needed to do this to offset $20k unexpected repairs. I feel reasonable in surmising this event was twisted to make Director X look bad to Members by essentially saying -- Hey! He was going to charge you $900! --but not offer any rhyme or reason or background to the whole story.

Another allegation: Director X's spouse was assisting part time in the office. She revealed (inappropriate maybe?) to husband that she observed the Treasurer/Sec were in arrears several months for dues. Allegedly Director X confronted this at a BOD mtg and was met with defensiveness. Shortly thereafter, Director X's spouse was let go due to lack of funds. Interesting especially if the Office Mgr is getting a raise this year, if significant.
KM1 (FL)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Apologize, the FL Statutes offer lengthy process to Recall:

(10) RECALL OF DIRECTORS.--
(a)1. Regardless of any provision to the contrary contained in the governing documents, subject to the provisions of s. 720.307 regarding transition of association control, any member of the board of directors may be recalled and removed from office with or without cause by a majority of the total voting interests.
2. When the governing documents, including the declaration, articles of incorporation, or bylaws, provide that only a specific class of members is entitled to elect a board director or directors, only that class of members may vote to recall those board directors so elected.
(b)1. Board directors may be recalled by an agreement in writing or by written ballot without a membership meeting. The agreement in writing or the written ballots, or a copy thereof, shall be served on the association by certified mail or by personal service in the manner authorized by chapter 48 and the Florida Rules of Civil Procedure.
2. The board shall duly notice and hold a meeting of the board within 5 full business days after receipt of the agreement in writing or written ballots. At the meeting, the board shall either certify the written ballots or written agreement to recall a director or directors of the board, in which case such director or directors shall be recalled effective immediately and shall turn over to the board within 5 full business days any and all records and property of the association in their possession, or proceed as described in paragraph (d).

...and so forth....
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Well, since the board can't "fire" Director X, then I'm sort of in the camp that the spouse should be the one to go.

It was inappropriate for the spouse to say anything to Director X, however, it was wholly irresponsible and inappropriate for Director X to confront the Treasurer/Sec.

Your HOA should have specific guidelines and a policy in place to handle past due accounts. I seriously doubt if anywhere in that policy or on those guidelines is the phrase: Director X should personally confront face-to-face any deadbeat board members.

By Director X confronting the past-due resident (regardless of whether it was an officer/board member or not), then Director X brought to light a serious breach of protocol. One way to nip that in the bud is to cut off Director X's access to the information.

Although, in our HOA the account status of each lot is mailed out to all members at a specific point in the assessment process, other HOAs apparently guard that information, and in no case ever is it appropriate for a board member/director to personally confront another HOA member about their assessment status face-to-face.
DennisT (Ohio)
Posts: 109
Posted:
I'm going to add a bit to Michele's comments. She stated that the association sends out the status of each lot. This is exactly how it needs to be done. It is critical that any statement concerning the financial status of a given unit/lot concern only the unit itself and not any purported owner. Consider this scenario: Darcy Smith lives in unit 12. Her unit is three months behind in paying its monthly assessment. Darcy is an older woman who is concerned about estate planning and she deeded her unit to the Darcy Smith Trust with herself and her son serving as joint trustees.

The association puts out a notice that says "Darcy Smith of Unit 12 is a deadbeat. She is three months behind." Darcy now has a cause of action against the association for libel. The delinquent owner is the trust, not Darcy herself.

Although we considered the account status of units to be "public record" within the association we were always very careful to state that the [unnamed] owner of unit X owes the association as opposed to saying that a particular person [owner] owed money. Without doing a full title search on each parcel prior to publishing notice you run the risk that a person has sold or otherwise transferred title to their unit and a named accusation could be factually incorrect. That's a wholly unnecessary accusation to have to defend against. Everybody knows that Darcy lives in unit 12 so let them make the connection. It's when the association makes an on-the-record accusation naming a specific individual that things get sticky.

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