A service of:
Community123.com
Professional websites for HOAs & condos, since 2004
🎁 1st year FREE for HOATalk members! →
← Return to Topics List

Legal Representation

Started by LindaL6 • 13 replies • 1490 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

LindaL6 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
My original statement was that our association refuses to ever get legal counsel.

There have been issues presented to the board.

They made and continue to make their own decisions.

Last year they implemented a rule regarding landscaping which was totally illegal and the MC lied about what he said. They misread the governing documents. This is ONE example. I don't have time to write every problem.

They continue to sit in their meetings and do as they please and nobody holds them liable or accountable.

IF they PERIODICALLY got legal counsel then they could conduct legit business.

The article submitted from me written by Beth Grimm was the best I've ever read and seemingly misunderstood.

Again, NOBODY in their right minds waits until a law suit is filed to get legal counsel. That is completely ludicrous.

Hope this makes sense.
Linda
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Fortunately for you, you live in California where the Davis-Stirling Act allows homeowners the right to vote and overturn a rule they don't like.

Civil Code §1357.140. Member Veto of Rule Changes

(a) Members of an association owning 5 percent or more of the separate interests may call a special meeting of the members to reverse a rule change.

(b) A special meeting of the members may be called by delivering a written request to the president or secretary of the board of directors, after which the board shall deliver notice of the meeting to the association's members and hold the meeting in conformity with Section 7511 of the Corporations Code. The written request may not be delivered more than 30 days after the members of the association are notified of the rule change. Members are deemed to have been notified of a rule change on delivery of notice of the rule change, or on enforcement of the resulting rule, whichever is sooner. For the purposes of Section 8330 of the Corporations Code, collection of signatures to call a special meeting under this section is a purpose reasonably related to the interests of the members of the association. A member request to copy or inspect the membership list solely for that purpose may not be denied on the grounds that the purpose is not reasonably related to the member's interests as a member.

(c) The rule change may be reversed by the affirmative vote of a majority of the votes represented and voting at a duly held meeting at which a quorum is present (which affirmative votes also constitute a majority of the required quorum), or if the declaration or bylaws require a greater proportion, by the affirmative vote or written ballot of the proportion required. In lieu of calling the meeting described in this section, the board may distribute a written ballot to every member of the association in conformity with the requirements of Section 7513 of the Corporations Code.

(d) Unless otherwise provided in the declaration or bylaws, for the purposes of this section, a member may cast one vote per separate interest owned.

(e) A meeting called under this section is governed by Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 7510) of Part 3 of Division 2 of Title 1 of, and Sections 7612 and 7613 of, the Corporations Code.

(f) A rule change reversed under this section may not be readopted for one year after the date of the meeting reversing the rule change. Nothing in this section precludes the board of directors from adopting a different rule on the same subject as the rule change that has been reversed.

(g) As soon as possible after the close of voting, but not more than 15 days after the close of voting, the board of directors shall provide notice of the results of a member vote held pursuant to this section to every association member. Delivery of notice under this subdivision is subject to Section 1350.7.

(h) This section does not apply to an emergency rule change made under subdivision (d) of Section 1357.130.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
LindaL6 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
No rule can conflict with the governing documents. Membership would have to amend the docs. Understand?
Linda
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Does your board have lawyer on retainer? If so, the president is able to consult with that person and bring back some advice or warnings. Perhaps this has been going on all this time.

Your post is vague so I'm not sure what you mean except most boards don't run all things by a lawyer. The legal bill would be outrageous.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Linda,

I think we all understand that. What I don't undersstand is how that statement applies to the info Glen provided you. If the board adopts a rule the members may vote to have the rule rescinded. This has nothing to do with amending the gov docs; only rescinding a board adopted rule.
LindaL6 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
I NEVER SAID THAT!!! PLEASE RE-READ MY POSTS
Linda
LindaL6 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
First of all, any rule that's implemented MUST be in compliance with the governing docs. That's first and foremost. It doesn't go to membership for vote. Secondly, our association has NEVER allowed a vote to go to membership; they automatically implement it.

If the association wants to implement a rule that doesn't comply with the governing docs, membership would have to amend the docs.

That's how it goes
Linda
LindaL6 (California)
Posts: 62
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 11/30/2009 10:11 AM
Does your board have lawyer on retainer? If so, the president is able to consult with that person and bring back some advice or warnings. Perhaps this has been going on all this time.

Your post is vague so I'm not sure what you mean except most boards don't run all things by a lawyer. The legal bill would be outrageous.

I never, ever said to run all things by a lawyer!!!!!!
Insanity.
Linda
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
There are none as blind as those that will not see and none as deaf as those that will not hear.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LindaL6 on 11/30/2009 10:20 AM
First of all, any rule that's implemented MUST be in compliance with the governing docs. That's first and foremost. It doesn't go to membership for vote. Secondly, our association has NEVER allowed a vote to go to membership; they automatically implement it.

If the association wants to implement a rule that doesn't comply with the governing docs, membership would have to amend the docs.

That's how it goes
Linda

Linda,

We all understand that! Glen posted a CA state law which gives the members the right to vote to rescind a board-adopted rule that they do not agree with. Whether or not it's in compliance with the gov docs doesn't matter. What Glen was trying to point out is that the members have the authority to over-ride what the board does. If they don't like a particular rule they can vote to have it rescinded.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Mary, Glen, it's pointless.

Linda is dead set on her interpretation and unwilling to accept that she may be more biased than she wants to let on.

It's pretty clear what Glen was pointing out and I almost laughed out loud when I read her response, and then I remembered how she doesn't like that sort of thing and takes it as a personal affront. Even though I would be laughing at how easy it is to get things confused and misunderstood on a non-real-time, text only communication medium, and not AT her personally!

Glen just showed her how to deal with the "illegal" Rule.

OF COURSE "rules" cannot (or are not supposed to) conflict with the governing documents.

But the board made the rule and it exists, legal or otherwise.

Fortunately, it's much easier in California than many other states to "fix" that faux pas.

It's pretty straightforward.

But instead, she's convinced that to remove the bad rule, a change would have to be made to the governing documents (which, quite frankly, doesn't even make sense to me!)

The irony here is, I've seen a number of "rules" vetted by an attorney, an HOA-experienced attorney, no less, that have been in conflict with the governing documents!

The neighborhood right next door to ours just cleaned up an attorney-vetted Rule that they had been following for a number of years. It took a new board member (who didn't have any prior HOA experience) questioning it before it was caught!

OPPS!
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Michele,

Well, we don't have to deal with her any more. She's signed off. In her final message she said: "Nothing of substance has been posted except generalizations, assumptions and misinterpretations." Question is: is she talking about her messages or ours???
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 11/30/2009 2:13 PM
Michele,

Well, we don't have to deal with her any more. She's signed off. In her final message she said: "Nothing of substance has been posted except generalizations, assumptions and misinterpretations." Question is: is she talking about her messages or ours???

I know!!

I was tempted to ask, and even had a post typed out. . . but then hit delete instead of send.

I am simply stunned at the low level self-awareness!

My favorite comment was that her board REFUSES to EVER seek legal representation.

I'm dying to know what the source of that factoid is. Was a resolution passed saying so? Was a "rule" made declaring it? Was it in a newsletter? Or was it simply because in the several instances where she would have secured legal advice, they didn't?

Makes it kind of hard to jump from that to "refuses" to "ever". . .

Then again, ask a handful of people in our development and they'll tell you that our board "refuses" to "ever" plow the streets in the winter. . . .

Stupid board.


MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Michele,

I think she could be a poster child for "HOA PIA Of The Year"! LOL

Is that a pic of you? Cute. . .cute. . .cute

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here

Terms of Use and Privacy Statement