Problems facing HOAs

You're welcome!

That's what we do best!

All three of our Board members have never been involved in any HOA's before, but have done an excellent job for the past 5 years. A person does not need prior HOA knowledge, just a willingness to be ethical, follow the CC&R's and keep personal agendas out of decisions.

I only WISH a new homeowner would show up to a meeting and ask to be on the Board . . . we have been re-elected over and over because there isn't anyone else who wants to do it. We always have a quorum at our annual meetings, but rarely more than one or two people at most other Board meetings.

You certainly do not need to know anything, just a willingness to learn.

We contact other HOA's, ask questions, read articles on our own, purchase books about HOA business, etc. I don't tell people how much time I spend researching laws, HOA standards, etc. so people probably think I still know nothing?? There are numerous opportunities to learn, you do not need a professional Board member to do the job.

I just asked you a question.
Linda

There should be (in my humble opinion) some educational requirements for board members.

Management companies should be held liable and accountable for their actions. California law states that they don't have to be CID certified, but they have to disclose whether or not they are certified; ours is not (obviously).

I would like to see an ombudsman implemented in California. There was a petition but it never made it because the HOA attorneys wouldn't get as much business.

There should be term limits for board members.

These are some of my thoughts.

Linda

We have had basically the same people on the board for the 10 years that I have lived here; until one moves out... then there's a vacancy. One just moved out; was a complete tyrant and even threatened some of the homeowners. Now there is an opening and my next door neighbor (who agrees with my viewpoints) is trying to get on the board.

A few years ago I went to the meeting to address an issues of low funding and I mean it was pathetic; we had no money. They sat and laughed at me and that was the only thing that I said; was that I was concerned about our funding situation. That's what they do; laugh not only at me but at other homeowners and one by one, they either move out or stop coming to meetings. For the past five years nobody has showed up at our annual meetings and the same board members vote themselves in.
You have to wonder why they want to do that.
Linda

If I could see the board follow the CC&R's and do what is right for the neighborhood I would be VERY happy.

I can't comprehend this mentality that exists; it makes no sense.

One homeowner told me quite frankly that he didn't care what happened in this association; he did not want to hear about it. I asked him what would he do if there were a law suit and he had to pay for the association's legal fees (which they have every right to assess) and he shrugged his shoulders and walked off.

There's so much I could say. I choose not to get on the board unless the slate is wiped clean (new MC, etc).
Linda

Just curious. In the ten years you have lived there have you ever served on the board?

That's your misinterpretation. Making assumptions.
Linda

Right, everyone knows that's your job.

Look, I will admit that there have been times when a homeowner comes to an annual meeting with comments like, "Where does my money go!" (after we have repeatedly mailed budget updates throughout the year, not to mention the financial statements he might have in his hand) or "Why didn't the association plow the streets last winter?"

And the board president may have laughed, but it was not AT the homeowner, simply at the frustration that is often tied up in what on the surface appears to be simple question, but is asked over and over, usually by the same people.

Take the snow plowing, we get maybe 2 really bad snows each winter.

Even then the streets are covered for two days, tops.

Not to mention the fact that the county is responsible for the snow plowing on our roads.

But for some reason, many of our residents mistakenly believe that SNOW PLOWING is what they pay assessments for.

It is not. Even though we discuss it every year at budget time, send the budgets out to everyone with NO line item for SNOW PLOWING.

Still, we reach out every year for plowing quote. Unfortunately, the quotes we have received for keeping a plow on "retainer" exceed our budget limitations. And, were we to actually have to plow, we could only plow half of one main street with the money we'd have available.

And the membership wanted us to keep assessments low and not increase them over the years. For ANYTHING.

Okay, they can't have it both ways.

Yet we will continue to get calls on those one or two snowy days demanding to know when the streets will be plowed.

So, yeah, I think the board president may have laughed when that comment came up. But again, it wasn't AT the person, but at the idea that we are having to go through that entire dialog again, and still end up with no rate increase and no snow plowing on the budget for the year.

Sure, the BOD probably handled your question poorly. After all, you've held onto the emotion of it all this time. As would many, I suppose. But there's no way to really know if they were really being mean or personal intended without being in the room to know how it all went down.

At any rate, it happened a good while ago. Are you telling us that in the course of time you haven't taken the opportunity to meet with one or two of them face-to-face outside of a board or annual meeting and talk to them about how it made you feel?

Remember, board members are association members just like you.

They aren't government officials or royalty either.

Perhaps it might be worth your while to get to know some of them on a neighbor basis, and they you.

I totally agree!!!! We need an overseer/ombudsman but I doubt if it will ever pass. There's no governing agencies to oversee HOA's and ( I hate to say this ) but the only place to go is an attorney (if you can't get results with the association).

But everything you said here is 100% correct. You can see why I'm sooooo frustrated.
Linda

Well said, Glen!

The sweeping generalizations and assumptions made by HOs about how and what decisions have been made still consume a good portion of my time and mental energy as our board tries to fairly and legitimately work through important board decisions. We have a community of only 50+ homes and I can not even count the number of odd rumors and misguided information that I have heard circulating over the last year. For example, and my favorite innocuous one ... our ACC and Rules and Regs are "not valid" because they are not recorded with the county. Many a HO heard this one and chaos ensued. Rarely does the board have an opportunity to address the issues head-on because they are circulated outside the meeting forum that the board is required to act within.

We do our best to keep the community informed, have open monthly meetings, publish minutes, hand deliver quarterly newsletters. In three years, not a single homeowner has EVER attended a regular board meeting, retrieved the minutes, or requested records (well one here) and yet groups of vocal HOs are happy to run around the neighborhood stirring up animosity and trouble siting how decisions are made and who is responsible.

Maybe the board of this HO remains "ignorant" and ineffective because they have to spend so much of their time dedicated to this nonsense too.

There are, no doubt, bad boards ... I believe, more often though, there are misguided boards -- rarely have I seen the evil machinations so many HOs allude to first hand.

^ ^ ^ ^
This. . . .

I think most "bad" boards would fall into that category.

Sure, we hear about some pretty "evil machinations" when some errant board hits the media, but more often than not boards are simply involved homeowners who stepped up to the plate to help manage the day-to-day business of their associations so that they can help maintain the resale value of single-most important investment they made.

Are many if not most association members "apathetic"?

One could argue that.

I, however, consider that for most people the association is simply an invisible entity in their day-to-day lives.

They think about it when the assessment is due or when there is something that directly impacts them, such as a violation notice or a street light that's out (even though we don't maintain our street lights, the local electric company does!)

Sometimes they may think about it if they want to build a fence or a deck.

Now, I realize that there's a bit more to the association "visibility" in condo associations or townhome associations, but still, as long as bills are paid, gutters are clean and the grass is maintained, the "association" is simply not top-of-mind.

Does that make it difficult when there is a homeowner who wants to make some changes? Sure, but that doesn't mean HOAs are "bad" or that people who are members are derelict. It just means that one needs to be very passionate about what he or she wants to change, passionate enough to be willing to put in the time, energy and talent into doing what needs to be done to effect those changes.

And that means not simply sitting on an InterTubes forum bad-mouthing the current board and trying to scare up support for pointing fingers and tsk-tsking.

That means doing the hard work of studying the documents, and then studying them again. It means after that is done going out into the neighborhood and conducting a positive change campaign to secure the attention, and, following that, the support of fellow members who can help one make those changes.

People really do respond better to "this is what we can do better, cheaper, faster, higher, stronger, etc etc" and not "this is what is being done wrong, poorly, incompetently, stupidly. . . "

As Glen pointed out, come to your fellow neighbors with SOLUTIONS, not COMPLAINTS.

Yeah, you're right, we probably won't.

But something tells me the answer is "no."

Partially because she could not answer the question regarding where in her documents it states that obtaining legal advice is mandatory.

It would seem a board member would probably be able to share that.

But maybe not. There I go making assumptions again.

Not so fast Linda, Glen knew what he was talking about ~~ I am NancyM2 ~~ We have a Ombudsman, and high priced attorney running our HOA ~ our dues are very high for a 575 single family home HOA. No aminities, City owns our street's (big ticket saving) and we pay $161.00 a month ~~ Ombudsman gets $86K a year just to do nothing more than the Mgmt Co should do. Mgmt Co gets 11K a month, and that's before extras... Attorney makes $140+K a year, and we can't get rid of them. I will be happy to send them both to you (postage pre paid)

We live in Calif as well ~~ Where do I send them

NancyM2

I contacted an attorney and asked the following two questions and their response is posted below the question. This might help anyone from California.

1. If by-laws of an HOA allow for the members to vote to adjourn to a new meeting if quorum for an annual meeting and election is not meet, can an attorney disallowed that vote of the members.

To your first question, if I understand it correctly, the answer is No. If a quorum is not available during a scheduled annual meeting/election, that date has to be reset. If the Bylaws establish the procedures on that, then I can’t see how the attorney could prevent that. Otherwise, board members could ensure life time positions by not showing up to annual meetings where elections are expected to be held.

2. Second, can discussing re-scheduling the election and amending by-laws be done in executive sessions or should this be done in an open meeting being that neither topic is privileged or private?

As to your second question, this is not one of the items permitted to be discussed in executive session. Only five things are permitted to be discussed in executive session, including (i) legal issues; (ii) formation of contracts; (iii) discipline of members; (iv) personnel issues (i.e. maintenance people, etc.); and (v) payment of assessments. That’s it.

Our Association was turned over by KB Homes in 2002. None of our current board members have ever been elected by the members, as the association has never achieved quorum for any annual meeting/election. The board members were appointed all this time from the original developer in 2000-2002, and through resignations over the years.

Michele

As you said, one foot in front of the other.