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GaryG5 (Maryland)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Does anyone else live in a community (our is all-townhouse) where the heat is provided
by natural gas, and the cost of the gas is included in the condo fee?

Some co-owners insist and persist on leaving their doors open in cold weather,
"heating the outdoors". The Board is considering a rule to require doors be kept closed
to save gas, which is 1/4 of our annual budget.

We get lame excuses like "we're waiting for someone" or "this is divisive".
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Gary I've never heard of such a thing unless there is one furnace / boiler for the whole building. I live in a condo (12 family) building and we have this in our CC&R's. You should check your documents for similar language; under it we could either stop paying for the utility or charge the open door people a surcharge. I however would change to individual meters if the Association could. Are there any limits to how warm you can keep the units? I mean open doors are one thing but what if everybody decided to set the thermostat at 80°?

Utility Services. The cost of water, waste removal, electricity, telephone, heat, power or any other necessary Utility service for the Common Areas and Facilities; the cost of waterlines, waste removal or any utilities which are not separately metered or otherwise directly charged to individual owners. However, the Association may discontinue such payments at any time, in which case each owner shall be responsible for direct payment of his share of such expenses as shall be determined by the Board of Trustees of the Association. The Association reserves the right to levy additional assessments against any owner to reimburse it for excessive use, as shall be determined by the Board of Trustees, by such owner of any utility service having been charged against the maintenance fund.


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GaryG5 (Maryland)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Glen, keep in mind that we're a community of townhouses, not a building. And since our heat is provided
by natural gas (A/C is electric, which is individually metered) there's no "boiler".

We looked into installing individual meters years ago but found it would be prohibitively expensive.

There would be no way to determine what people set their thermostats to without being impossibly
intrusive.

We had nothing specific in our Bylaws or Rules and Regulations about wasteful activity
(we also want to ban car-washing since it uses community water, another utility paid for
by our condo fees)
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GaryG5 on 11/24/2009 3:19 AM
Glen, keep in mind that we're a community of townhouses, not a building. And since our heat is provided by natural gas (A/C is electric, which is individually metered) there's no "boiler".

We looked into installing individual meters years ago but found it would be prohibitively expensive.

There would be no way to determine what people set their thermostats to without being impossibly intrusive.

We had nothing specific in our Bylaws or Rules and Regulations about wasteful activity (we also want to ban car-washing since it uses community water, another utility paid for by our condo fees)

That, to me, is far more of a potential problem than someone holding their door open. Who determines how long is too long for the door to be ajar? Who is going to be the "door police"?

Frankly, I would just send a notice to everyone that the practice is wasteful and impacts on other owners, so please refrain from leaving the door open too long. (again, someone would have to define for me what "too long" is in order to classify as a cost burden on the other members).

But I would also take the opportunity during that communication to provide people with energy saving tips, tricks and ideas for their home for the colder weather.

I would also get with some local businesses like Lowe's, Home Depot or some other similar locally-owned company, and see if they would be willing to provide homeowners access to discount coupons for things like weather stripping, energy-efficient window film, energy-efficient storm doors, energy-saving audits, etc etc etc.

I would also provide information to tax credits that are available for various products, such as biofoam insulation and other energy saving/efficiency products.

GaryG5 (Maryland)
Posts: 5
Posted:
We have added a line to almost every Board meeting minutes circulated in the winter
months asking co-owners to keep their front door closed, but there
are a few who ignore this advice. We also include information in the
minutes and the proposed annual budget about the cost of natural gas.

Curiously enough, the worst violator actually piped up in the annual
meeting suggesting we investigate the possibility of placing solar panels
on the roofs ("let's go green")! Another co-owner, an engineer, pointed
out that this would probably cost $15,000 per townhouse and thus the
savings would not be recouped in anyone's lifetime (alas, we don't live
in Arizona ;-)

Late last winter we added a few more inches of insulation to the ceilings of
all units, which will certainly help but leaving doors open is so openly
wasteful that the Board feels it has to do something.

Obviously, we will use some discretion. We have to provide co-owners
with an idea of what to expect. We selected a date range (Nov. 15 - March 15)
when daytime temperatures are almost always below inside termperatures.
We would obviously not enforce the rule if there was an uncommonly warm day.

Over and above all this, it's simply unsafe to leave one's door open in a
heavily-populated suburb, not that we're trying to legislate security. It's
that some of our co-owners are that foolish. A few will start their cars, then
run inside to do something, leaving their cars easy prey for thieves (we are
right off a major highway, making it easy for car thieves or burglars to
make a quick getaway).
AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
Gary, we DO have specific rules about keeping doors open.

"All doors leading from the unit to common elements shall be closed and used for no other purpose than ingress and egress from the units."

We don't get our heat provided by the association but this rule is intended to keep out pests, vermin, reptiles; etc. But it IS a rule.

We also have a rule which prohibits car washing on the property. Not only is it wasting water, but because of the environmental concerns. The car wash water was dumping chemicals, detergents, etc., into our drainage system.

Michelle gives some good tips here!
GaryG5 (Maryland)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thanks, Anna. Is yours a single building of condominium apartments?

How do the residents feel about enforcement?

We already have a rule about car maintenance (with the inevitable chemical
spills). The rule about carwashing is specifically to save water.

Again, the woman at the townhouse who most frequently leaves her
door open is the first to complain about people washing cars, wasting
water!

When people aren't paying individually for the gas it's hard to get them
to take energy conservation measures, especially when it costs them money.
And in this economy, few have money to spare for projects that cost significant
amounts of money with a long-term payoff, mainly for others.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GaryG5 on 11/24/2009 7:46 AM
We have added a line to almost every Board meeting minutes circulated in the winter
months asking co-owners to keep their front door closed, but there
are a few who ignore this advice. We also include information in the
minutes and the proposed annual budget about the cost of natural gas.

With all due respect, that is ineffective communication. Adding the line to minutes, regardless of when they are circulated, will get minimal attention, if any. Including "info" in the annual budget is also ineffective if your goal is to change behavior, and I'm guessing it is. People are not reading those items for that sort of information and most likely simply scan right over it. Even then, people often don't recognize themselves in what I like to term "scattershot" communication blasts.

The fact of the matter is, you will need to create and engage a targeted communication campaign around this singular topic.

It's not really as hard as it sounds, and it will be much more effective than simply posting a rule about it.

Again, assuming that your real goal is to change behaviors.

There are all sorts of ways to bring the issue top-of-mind and encourage compliance.

One idea, develop a "energy awareness" survey.

On a single postcard, craft about 4 or 5 energy awareness survey questions that are easy to answer and easy to return.

One of the questions, or more if you like, can involve the practice of open windows and doors during peak energy periods, as in the winter or in the summer.

For example:

1) Some of the easiest ways to reduce energy costs during [cold] [hot] weather include:

___ Keep doors and windows closed.

___ Unplug any unessential electrical devices or appliances.

___ Change a/c and furnace filters frequently.

2) We would like to investigate obtaining energy saving discounts from local home stores for our residents. Which item would be most beneficial to you:

____ Weather-stripping

____ Automatic door closers

____ Energy-rated window film

____ Draft-reducing drape/curtain liners

Anyway, after you send out the survey, then follow up with specific, energy-related communications only.

Don't dilute the message with other materials.

You must first raise awareness.

Then you can also provide incentives.

Engage in some sort of "Reduce Your Carbon Footprint" competition. See if you can get a business to donate some items to give to the winner. . .

AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
We are a two-story condo building.

How do they feel about rule enforcement? They hate it when it pertains to them.

First we send a friendly "reminder" letter, quote the rule they are violating and ask for compliance.

Ignored? Then we send a more stern letter stating that they are required to comply and that if the violation is not corrected then the next letter will come from the Association attorney and all attorney fees and court costs will be incurred by them. That usually works but when it doesn't, the letter from our attorney nips it in the bud.

AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
By the way Gary....we had a very old lady who ALWAYS kept her front door open. All of her neighbors begged her to close and lock her door, simply for safety reasons! She'd refuse. She got letters, too. One neighbor kept walking by and closing it, but the old lady would crawl out of her chair and open it again.

One day she called me because she had a snake in her house. Yup, a snake had crawled in through the open door. By the time I got there her cleaning lady had practically drownd the poor snake with RAID, bug killer. It was all very dramatic.

Next day.....door open again. She's not with us anymore.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
It will never work without separate meters. You and I both know it.

Have a couple of different companies quote it out, then come up with a plan to pay for it and execute it. Shared utilities just don't work.
GaryG5 (Maryland)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Been there, done that. WAY too expensive
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
You could always go the route of cheap home meters like this one.

[IMG]http://i50.tinypic.com/2eo9m40.jpg[/IMG]

Ask if the local gas company could install a similar unit inside and run a electronic sensor outside for them to read. Installation would be simple, just unscrew the feed line, and feed it into the meter.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GaryG5 on 11/25/2009 3:32 PM
Been there, done that. WAY too expensive

Gary first off you've got to understand that whatever the BOD does, someone will not like it. You either need to take the time and effort to amend the CC&R's to change each unit to individual meters, preferably read by the local gas company as they can shut off utilities for non payment. Or if you have the power to fine for excessive usage or can get it, setup a door patrol to monitor everyone's door (don't forget windows) to make sure they aren't left open. I would suggest video monitoring that way you can time how long each door is open and bill accordingly. Oh, a lot of utility companies have thermal imaging cameras which tell how warm a dwelling is, police departments also use them to find pot growers. The HOA could get one to monitor how warm people are keeping their units and bill accordingly. That or leave things as they are and keep increasing assessments to pay for the gas.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

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