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JerrieS (Georgia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
My condo association is in Midtown Atlanta, Georgia. At a homeowner's meeting several days ago ..we were handed a couple of sheets of new rules and regulations concerning our Condo Docs. In this paper work it made clear and precise that Hardship Leasing Permits have new rules about what is excepted...and Rental units changing the rental time to 4 years.
Could the board make any of these decesions without first asking us homeowners and how is this legal. The association used an attorney to write this for us. The rules and regulations cleary are additions to our condo docs.
J
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Jerrie,

While the Condo Board would normally be able to change Rules and Regulations without owner approval, they may not change useage of the unit without a vote by the membership. That should be in your CC&Rs. Georgia has very few laws to govern and guide hoas so looking to the State is frustrating. I'll see what I can find for you.
Is it that under the "hardship clause," one may only total up 4 years consecutively before they either sell or cease renting the unit? I really hate that "hardship" thing because what is a hardship? That is an ambiguous call at the least. It is all in interpretation of what it means.
If an owner has awesome tenants and after 4 years they must be evicted? Whoa, that's where this clause is absolutely wrong and should be against the law to force an eviction to tenants who have been good in the community.
Some States have Tenants Rights laws and eviction of good tenants by a HOA because of this type of clause should be illegal.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Jerrie if you are still under Declarant control the changes do not have to be approved by the homeowners. If the Declarant is no longer in control then how to change the documents should be spelled out in the CC&R's.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JerrieS (Georgia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
okay, here is the low down. We have condo docs and the association is in complete control. I have a condo that has not rented or been able to sell for 4 years. I keep asking to rent under the hardship lease clause. Because it states but, is not limited to, the following
If you can not sell your unit for less than fair market value;
I sent the Fulton County tax assessor bill (which is paid for 2009) for Fair Market Value of $137,000. as exhibit a
also two foreclosure units listed with MSL with a listing price of 49K
I can not sell my unit for 49K or less
So I should be able to fall under the hardship lease stips.
The association (which by the way have all their units rented) decided to go to the attorney (when they realized I found the loop hole) after denying me on several occassion.
They decided to right up and print new rules and regulations for condo docs (they said so we clearly understand)
in this it states that, To prove you are selling your unit only if listed with a licensed realtor (I have people that can prove I have tried to sell my unit on my own) also only with a MLS LISTING.
ALSO to determine a fair market value only with a licesned realtor apprasail for the state of georgia.
First, this is just wrong...I do not have to list with a realtor to sell my unit.
So my question is can I prove that they can not write the rules and regulations to add verbage and change to condo docs...
This is a good question but, I need to know and very quickly
In the new rules and regs (by the way we never had old rules and regs just condo docs) they also state any one renting may now have an open rental period of 4 years without getting back on the list.
So if this is the case I would have to wait another 4 years to be able to rent
J
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
Jerrie,

The first thing...

ARE YOU UNDER DEVELOPER CONTROL????

After that...you need to review your founding documents (Bylaws, CCRs, Articles) to determine HOW rules can be deveoped. Can the BOD just write up a new set of rules? Perhaps...that is why you need to view your own documents.

However, judging from what you wrote...I would be aghast if my association did it, and I would question the legality.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Tracie:

Jerrie already said the association is in control.
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
My bad, I completely missed that one...

Thanks!
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Jerrie,

I suggest your research your covenants (CCRs) for an article titled "Rules". Most CCRs have such an article which gives the BOD the power to adopt additional rules and regulations w/o a vote of the members. These rules and regs have the same legality as the CCRs even though the members have not voted for them. Some states require the rules & regs to be reviewed by the members b/4 being adopted by the BOD. You may also want to check out your state HOA statutes to see if this is a requirement. So, depending upon what your CCRs and state law say, the board may have acted properly in adopting these new rules. I would like to think that if they consulted an attorney for assistance in writing the rules they would also have sought advice as to whether or not they could adopt them w/o a vote of the members.
DeeS1 (Michigan)
Posts: 223
Posted:
Jerri: As Mary said, take a read through your docs if you haven't done so ... it will be most useful.

Many time, the language associated with the board creating additional "Rules and Regulations" has a caveat for an effective timeline -- 30 days after the Homeowners are provided copies, etc. Also, the language also sometimes has provisions for Homeowners to revoke rules put in place by the board with a certain percentage of homeowner votes.

Ours has both of these options, however, Homeowners can not revoke rule and regs put in place prior to the first annual meeting (i.e., by the builder).
JerrieS (Georgia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
sorry for the delay in reply...I had to go out of town on business.
This board was turned over about 4 years ago...so the developers are no longer in control. This board has had meeting for the past 4 years. What they essentially did...to block my hardship leasing permit (by the way again they all have their units rented) to block my hardship because I address the stips and sent in my paper work they tried to find a way to block me. So they decided to write a set of rules and regulations (for the first time, we never had any before)..
They address previous rentals and are giving them a 4 year (that is so they are covered for 4 years to rent) our numbers are too high (we now have one renter too many) one renter is from the president of the board ( imagine that) so now they are locking in on a 4yr. which means no new rental leases will be permitted (it should take about 4 yrs)..THIS IS ONE NEW RULE AND REGULATIONS THEY MADE
the other:
HARDSHIP LEASING: with the new rules and regs you must have your unit listed with a licensed realtor and on mls listing. (this is just plain outrageous!!! I do not have to have my unit with a realtor to sell it!!!)
the next new rule is we must get a realtor lic appraiser to appraiser our unit to sell
They refused to take my tax bill and two mls listing in the building to average how much my unit went down. From $137K on the tax bill to $49k on 2 mls listing in the building.
How can they write new rules that clearly make new changes...
J

For those of you giving me advice to look at condo docs I have ordered a new set to look at
JerrieS (Georgia)
Posts: 4
Posted:
sorry for the delay in reply...I had to go out of town on business.
This board was turned over about 4 years ago...so the developers are no longer in control. This board has had meeting for the past 4 years. What they essentially did...to block my hardship leasing permit (by the way again they all have their units rented) to block my hardship because I address the stips and sent in my paper work they tried to find a way to block me. So they decided to write a set of rules and regulations (for the first time, we never had any before)..
They address previous rentals and are giving them a 4 year (that is so they are covered for 4 years to rent) our numbers are too high (we now have one renter too many) one renter is from the president of the board ( imagine that) so now they are locking in on a 4yr. which means no new rental leases will be permitted (it should take about 4 yrs)..THIS IS ONE NEW RULE AND REGULATIONS THEY MADE
the other:
HARDSHIP LEASING: with the new rules and regs you must have your unit listed with a licensed realtor and on mls listing. (this is just plain outrageous!!! I do not have to have my unit with a realtor to sell it!!!)
the next new rule is we must get a realtor lic appraiser to appraiser our unit to sell
They refused to take my tax bill and two mls listing in the building to average how much my unit went down. From $137K on the tax bill to $49k on 2 mls listing in the building.
How can they write new rules that clearly make new changes...
J

For those of you giving me advice to look at condo docs I have ordered a new set to look at
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Jerrie,

In order to intelligently reply to your concerns, I would have to read, verbatim, the old rule and the new rule and also the CCR covenant that addresses rentals and hardship leasing. Without this info there is no way anyone can say that what the BOD has done is legal or not. Thx!
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Jerri - if you are applying for any special treatment from the HOA, then follow their rules. That's what they are asking.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Jerrie, what did you do to anger this BOD so that they are out to get you personally? They actually went to the time and trouble the write rules & regulations that only affect you? Imagine their audacity to want proof that the unit is actually for sale and not take your word and the word of your friends for it. Not to mention not letting you use the tax bill which at best is a guesstimate of an overworked civil servant and which seldom reflects the actual value of the property and the price of two properties sold in distress; outrageous.

I'll agree that you shouldn't have to use a realtor (unless required in your CC&R's) to sell your unit but it is reasonable for the BOD to require some type of proof that you are actually diligently trying to sell it at a reasonable price. I can hear it now - "My unit which I value at 2.5 billion is just not moving; I need a hardship lease."

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Jerri,

"How can they write new rules that clearly make new changes..." BECAUSE THEY CAN. That is what Boards do. Yes you may feel that it is unreasonable to do so but yes they can do it.

Just a little FYI about the Atlanta area real estate market. On a recent trip down there, upon entering the outskirts of the city, there is a billboard ad for a MLS real estate company. It says,

" See us! we have 197,540 listings" I do not need to tell anyone what this means to the condo market. If we posters started to post numbers from our own HOAs, the price drop on your unit might not be as significant as you think.

Requiring you to have an agent to sell the property seems like it should be unlawful. The "Hardship" clause to me is ambiguous and should never been voted in. That should have been done by a vote of the members as an amendment and definitely NOT a rule added by the Board.

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