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DonnaS4 (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Our management firm recently sent out the annual proxy ballots for owners to vote on whether to fund reserves at 100% or 50% which a copy of the proposed 2010 Budget. The proxy and letter enclosed both stated the vote for for approval of the 2009 proposed budget. The management firm did not send copies to board members to proof read and approve before the mailing went out to owners. When this was addressed to the management firm by a board member they claim the consulted an attorney and the ballots were legal even though the wrong year was stated. Is this legal and binding that owners voted and the board approved a budget for 2010 when the ballot stated 2009?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Donna,

Since 2009 is 3/4 over I think it would be understand that a typo occurred. I don't believe there's any need to worry that the vote was not legal.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Meant to type "understood". See, typos are not all that uncommon!
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
What is a proxy ballot?

PS Only if someone objects to the entire voting procedure, due to a confusion in the motion wording, would there be a problem.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Donna,

All that is needed is when the tally is done, to make note that there was a typo error on the proxy form date and it is corrected on the tally form. Anyone who signs the proxies will date them when they are signed and hopefully they will know what the real date is.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
To all,
Doesn't it seem plain wrong that the management company sent these ballots out wiyjout Board approval. I would think the Board could declare them to be illegal for this reason alone. Don't seem like a good working relationship to me, and the sort of thing that happens when the tail starts to wag the dog. Better stop it now.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
I agree with Robert. If the MC is willing to send out ballots without having them approved one should ask what else are they doing without approval? I'm not saying that what they may or may not have done would be illegal. I am saying, as Robert did, the Board needs to stop this behavior now.

Tim
DonnaS4 (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Thanks for all your responses. I guess this is just the icing on the cake with this Management Company. They continually make errors but call them misunderstandings. I can understand a typo but this has happened too many times. The problem is the president of the board is always on the management firm's side and two of the other board members are in his hip pocket(??). So to get a quorum of the board to even entertain the idea of getting bids from a new management firm would create tremendous turmoil. A lot of owners see the problem and experience frustration with they also. Can the owners petition to fire the management firm?
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaS4 on 11/06/2009 5:26 AM
Thanks for all your responses. I guess this is just the icing on the cake with this Management Company. They continually make errors but call them misunderstandings. I can understand a typo but this has happened too many times. The problem is the president of the board is always on the management firm's side and two of the other board members are in his hip pocket(??). So to get a quorum of the board to even entertain the idea of getting bids from a new management firm would create tremendous turmoil.A lot of owners see the problem and experience frustration with they also. Can the owners petition to fire the management firm?

It depends on what your governing documents say about it. Probably not, though.

However, the owners can petition to fire the board of directors.

Are you on the board?

Who does business with a management company verbally? If directions, instructions, requests and action delegations are put in writing, there's less room for "misunderstandings."

Are you sure your board isn't blaming mistakes they are making on the management company and calling it "misunderstandings" so that it takes any heat off of themselves?
DonnaS4 (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
I am Treasurer of the Board and the five board members and management mostly communicate by email. I understand though the management and the President meet personally at least once or twice a week to walk the property or deal with contractors on site. Due to my insistence, it has recently surfaced that I am often left off the email chain of correspondense. I am the black sheep because I ask alot of questions and have an extensive accounting background. No other board member in many years really had the knowledge and full faith in this management has made many of the board and select owners become personal friends. I've been on the board for two years now and opened the eyes of many owners that back me, but our big problem always seems to come back to the management firm.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
It seems, then, that the board may still be covering their own butts for their own misadventures by classifying "errors" that the management company commits as "miscommunication."

It may be time to start searching for concerned homeowners who can replace a board member or two at the next election and begin the campaign for them RIGHT NOW, and not wait til the last minute.

You will never be able to accomplish any change unless you get at least a second or third "vote" on the board.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
DonnaS4
There is no law that says the owner of a HOA or a group of people anywhere can't get together and petition any Governing body.

The body may not buy the idea and in this case, I can understand why. The members did not hire the MC, the Board did, so they have to be the ones to terminate the contract.

If your HOA contained 100 units and you, as a body, received a petition from 15 owners about anything, the body would be wise to pay attention and deliver an answer for the record.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Robert & Tim,

Who's to say the BOD didn't approve what was to be written on the "proxy ballot" (whatever that is!). The fact that the form was not seen by the BOD b/4 it was sent out doesn't mean they didn't approve it. My assn's PM doesn't send anything to the members that the BOD hasn't first approved but they may not see the finished copy b/4 it's sent out.

It's a typo that can occur anytime, anywhere with anyone. I really don't see it as a big deal. Especially since 2009 is 3/4 over anyone with an ounce of brain would know the budget in question is for 2010. IMO, anyone wanting to make a big deal over this is just looking for things to find wrong with the PM and/or the BOD!!
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Mary,
Thanks for that information . I agree that the Board did not approve the final draft but they did order it to be written and sent out. It is up to the Management company to follow thru with their directions and that was to generate and send the proxy out to the membership.

As for their office routine, someone needs to PROOF READ whatever is being sent out. This is not a conspiracy IMHO, but lack of correct office procedure. Yup, making a mountain out of a mohill.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Donna,

If this is a common occurance perhaps the BOD should assign the secretary to proof all documents b/4 they're sent out to the memberhip. However, if this a requirement I certainly would suggest contacting the mgmt co and letting them know of it and the fact that this is something the BOD should NOT have to do!

Nothing wrong with making mtn's out of molehills, if it's the only way to get things done properly!! I'm a stickler for doing things the right way, so I can understand the frustration.
DonnaS4 (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Thanks very much Mary for your suggestion. No one is really trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill yet, like I said, this is not the first typo, misunderatanding, mistake that the MC has made. And I must say, I'm a professional and a stickler about getting things done right the first time. But my hands are tied since the President is personal friends with the MC. A total conflict of interest, I know, but some people run for the Board for the title, attention and power, rather than the true interest and well being of the owners. We are 136 units, beachside with $435 monthly fee and continually rising. I find myself in the middle of constant conflicts by asking lots of questions. Quess my best efforts need to be focused on getting others to run in the next election that have all owners best interest at heart!
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Donna,

If there are 5 members on the board, the Pres only has 1 vote. I hope you're not saying all the other board members are afraid to vote against the Pres. If that's the case then you need a totally new board made up of people who can think for themselves! The board members should not stand for the Pres being a dictator. He should know that another board member can be appointed/elected to replace him at any time.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
DonnaS4,
Your interest and devotion to your neighbors is commendable. Saying that and meaning it gives me a little crack to offer a little different view that I am surprised you are not picking up on.

You have seen it written here frequently. Do not confuse your primary dedication when residing in an HOA or serving your community. It is very important that the other owners are considered in any decision that effects the whole.......the right thing to do. But.......you as a member do not serve the people entirely and majority may not rule. You have signed on to serve the association and protect the association first and foremost. Consider nothing that will damage the association and then go on and try to please as many folks as possible under that mandate. It is easy to consider the association as some amorphous cloud that you can't please or identify. It's not.

I reference your last, last sentence.

I add, don't let it bother you to ask questions. Good Associations are made by the folks that ask questions, not the folks that won't or can't answer them.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:


EVERYONE,

THERE ARE 2 DONNAS NOW POSTING. BOTH ARE FROM FLORIDA. DONNAS IS THE OLDTIMER AND DONNAS4 IS THE NEWBY.

PLEASE NOTE THAT WHEN REPLYING. THANKS, DONNAS(oldtimer)
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaS4 on 11/06/2009 10:56 AM
Some people run for the Board for the title, attention and power, rather than the true interest and well being of the owners.

Ummm...I have a title, sure... Does anyone pay attention to me or allow me to exercise my power...no... I need to move to your place!!!
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Tracie,

That "title, attention and power" is most likely only perceived by the board member!

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