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BettyO1 (California)
Posts: 104
Posted:
Can a board member who is recalled as part of all board members being removed (easier than removing individual directors) run in election to replace the board if he/she was not the problem and satisfies qualifications to be board member.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Yes they can. In fact there is nothing to stop any recalled member (even the one's who "deserved" to be recalled) from running again as long as they meet the same requirements as any other member allowed to run. Actually getting elected is another thing.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
Yup; Glenn is right...they CAN run again.... and they will probably be reelected if no one else steps up to run in their place.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Was there a vote for EACH recalled member?

Your question is the reason I ask. EACH board member should be allowed to state their case when being recalled.

Why throw out ALL the babies with the bath water/

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Betty,

Exactly how was it easier to recall the whole board instead of only the board member(s) who deserved to be recalled? Also, if a particular board member was "not the problem" then that board member should not have received any votes to recall. I hope you're not going to say votes were not cast for individual board members but rather for the board as a whole. If this is how the recall election was conducted then I would have to say it was improperly carried out.

But, to answer your question, I don't see why not. However, if that person was successfully recalled, why would he/she think he/she could now be elected?
MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 10/24/2009 8:23 PM
Exactly how was it easier to recall the whole board instead of only the board member(s) who deserved to be recalled?

I hope you're not going to say votes were not cast for individual board members but rather for the Board as a whole. If this is how the recall election was conducted then I would have to say it was improperly carried out.
Mary,

Doesn't this all depend on their governing documents (probably their Bylaws)? How can we make such determinations without knowing those provisions?

Assuming (as you must be) that their governing documents are set up in a common and usual manner, with nothing unexpected in this area, then what would be improper about a recall ballot to "remove each and every current Director (i.e., to remove the current Board of Directors of the Association, as it is currently constituted, in its entirety)."

I, too, would like to know why they though it easier to remove the entire Board than to remove individual Directors. Betty hasn't been willing to answer any questions so far, but I hope she will tell us if their governing documents provide a simpler procedure? Or is it just politically easier to say "all", rather than picking and choosing or naming their neighbors who are on the Board?
BettyO1 (California)
Posts: 104
Posted:
Davis-Stirling says it is easier to remove board vs individual directors. Has to do with cumulative voting and ability to block recall with individual directors.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Michael,

I'm guessing this is not specified in Betty's bylaws. Usually I don't like to say "never", but I have never heard it to be specified how a vote is to be conducted when the whole board is being recalled. AZ even has a state law addressing recalls but the law does not specify how the voting should be done.

I stated my opinion, which is that each board member should receive an individual vote whether to recall or not.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Betty,

Did you actually read that in the Davis-Stirling Act or is that what someone told you? Posted below is the applicable section from the Act. As you can see it says cumulative voting is only allowed if it is specified in the assn's gov docs. However, I don't see how cumulative voting has anything to do with whether it's best to recall the whole board or just the board members who deserve to be recalled.

(b) Notwithstanding any other law or provision of the governing documents, elections regarding assessments legally requiring a vote, election and removal of members of the association board of directors, amendments to the governing documents, or the grant of exclusive use of common area property pursuant to Section 1363.07 shall be held by secret ballot in accordance with the procedures set forth in this section. A quorum shall be required only if so stated in the governing documents of the association or other provisions of law. If a quorum is required by the governing documents, each ballot received by the inspector of elections shall be treated as a member present at a meeting for purposes of establishing a quorum. An association shall allow for cumulative voting using the secret ballot procedures provided in this section, if cumulative voting is provided for in the governing documents.

BTW, cumulative voting means if 3 people are being recalled a member may cast 3 votes for one person instead of the usual 1 vote each for 3 persons. Cumulative voting doesn't make it easier to recall the whole board, but may make it easier to recall one particular board member. Do your bylaws allow for cumulative voting?
BettyO1 (California)
Posts: 104
Posted:
Look below from D-S. Does it mean removing entire board requires majority vote, whereas removing individual board members requires majority vote AND cannot be blocked by X members. Very confusing.

Cumulative Voting. If the governing documents provide for cumulative voting, removing individual directors is more difficult than removing the entire board.

Cumulative Voting Formula for Removing Directors

If an association's CC&Rs or bylaws provide for cumulative voting, removing less than the entire board requires a two step process. Once a petition for removal has been submitted to the board, the membership must vote by secret ballot to remove the director. However, a minority of the membership can block the removal. The process is confusing, the statute is badly written, and authorities disagree on how it should work. Following is one interpretation:

Step #1: APPROVING THE RECALL. As provided for in Corp. Code ยง7222(a) any or all directors may be removed without cause if:

*

In a corporation with fewer than 50 members, the removal is approved by the affirmative vote of a majority of all members entitled to vote.
*

In a corporation with 50 or more members, the removal is approved by the affirmative vote of a majority of the votes represented and voting at a duly held meeting at which a quorum is present, with the affirmative votes also constituting a majority of the required quorum.

Step #2: BLOCKING REMOVAL. Even if the membership votes to recall a director, the recall can be blocked. As provided for in Corp. Code ยง7222(b), no director may be removed when the votes cast against removal would be sufficient to elect the director if voted cumulatively at an election where all memberships entitled to vote were voted (since all voting must now be done by secret ballot). The following formula will provide the number of votes needed to block the recall:

M
+ 1 = X
D + 1

M = total number of members
D = total number of open seats in the election at which the director was elected
X = number of votes needed to block recall

Cumulative Voting. Recalls are subject to special requirements if cumulative voting is allowed by the governing documents.

MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432
Posted:
Are you sure cumulative voting is allowed by your governing documents?
BettyO1 (California)
Posts: 104
Posted:
Yes, cumulative voting allowed.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Betty,

First of all, here's where the confusion lies with regard to CA statutes. You are referring to Davis Stirling, but the applicable statute is contained in the CA Corp Code not the Davis Stirling Act. These are two separate sets of statutes; Davis Stirling applies to HOAs only and the corp code applies to all corps.

Copied below is the applicable statute from the CA Corp Code. The formula you provide is not in the statute and, frankly, makes no sense to me. What I get from the Corp code is that a board member cannot be removed if the number of votes cast to remove would be the same as the number required to elect him, if all the directors were being elected at that election and if cumulative voting was being used. The code is very poorly written but I don't see where it says it is more effective to recall the whole board rather than just one member. In fact I really don't know how anyone could calculate that. Cumulative voting means a member may cast 3 votes for any one candidate if 3 candidates are on the ballot, or they may cast 2 votes for one candidate and 1 for another or they may just cast 1 vote for each of 3 candidates, whatever they choose to do. Therefore, how can anyone calculate how many votes will be cast for any one candidate when each member voting can cast the votes as they choose?

7222. (a) Subject to subdivisions (b) and (f) of this section, any
or all directors may be removed without cause if:
(1) In a corporation with fewer than 50 members, the removal is
approved by a majority of all members (Section 5033).
(2) In a corporation with 50 or more members, the removal is
approved by the members (Section 5034).
(3) In a corporation with no members, the removal is approved by a
majority of the directors then in office.
(b) Except for a corporation having no members, pursuant to
Section 7310:
(1) In a corporation in which the articles or bylaws authorize
members to cumulate their votes pursuant to subdivision (a) of
Section 7615, no director may be removed (unless the entire board is
removed) when the votes cast against removal, or not consenting in
writing to the removal, would be sufficient to elect the director if
voted cumulatively at an election at which the same total number of
votes were cast (or, if the action is taken by written ballot, all
memberships entitled to vote were voted) and the entire number of
directors authorized at the time of the director's most recent
election were then being elected.
BettyO1 (California)
Posts: 104
Posted:
Thank you. Does state code always take precedence versus Davis-Stirling?

Also, does below say that when entire board is removed, votes cast against removal are not considered? Also, what does it take to remove entire board: majority of voting members (51% of 100%) or majority of quorum (51% of 51%)?

(1) In a corporation in which the articles or bylaws authorize
members to cumulate their votes pursuant to subdivision (a) of
Section 7615, no director may be removed (unless the entire board is
removed) when the votes cast against removal, or not consenting in
writing to the removal, would be sufficient to elect the director if
voted cumulatively at an election at which the same total number of
votes were cast (or, if the action is taken by written ballot, all
memberships entitled to vote were voted) and the entire number of
directors authorized at the time of the director's most recent
election were then being elected.
MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432
Posted:
Since these are all CA state laws, they were probably written to avoid conflicting with each other, but address different issues. Since the Davis-Stirling Act specifically addresses HOAs, if there is any conflict, I suspect this Act it written to so as to take precedence over more general Corporation statutes.

But that's just what I think would make sense; I don't know much about these laws.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Betty,

The Davis-Stirling Act is specific to HOAs. Since there is nothing in it regarding recalling board members, the Corp code would take precedence.

The Corp Code statute does not specifically state what the required % is, but I can tell you the % would not be based on what the quorum requirement is. If your bylaws say a majority of the voting members is required to remove a board member, then that's what you must follow. And if it says "voting" members that means any member who is not in good standing (delinquent in assessments and/or in violation of the covenants) cannot vote so they are not added when determining the exact number of votes required. For ex: membership = 100; members not in good standing = 10. That means the % is based upon 90 members.

Exactly what do your bylaws say about cumulative voting. Is it a requirement or can it be used at the discretion of the BOD. Frankly, if there is an option, I would opt to not use it. The Corp Code statute is just to confusing and ambiguous.

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