Additional charges from Property manager

Started by CharlieM • 15 replies • 1809 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

CharlieM (California)
Posts: 42

Posted:

Hello all,

Our management company is now charging us $75 an hour to make copies and other small administrative type services. This does not include the materials, just the time involved. To me this seems excessive.

Can anyone share what their association gets charged for these services.

Or just an opinion if this may seem excessive to you also.

Thank you.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

Charlie, I suspect your Board entered into a management agreement approving a charge of $75 for services other than the monthly charge. If you feel this is too high talk to your Board about trying to amend the agreement or changing MC.

For your information we charge $40/hr; most MCs in Colorado charge from $50 to $75/hr for services not included in the services they itemize under the monthly charge.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RogerB on 10/24/2009 10:33 AM
Charlie, I suspect your Board entered into a management agreement approving a charge of $75 for services other than the monthly charge. If you feel this is too high talk to your Board about trying to amend the agreement or changing MC.

For your information we charge $40/hr; most MCs in Colorado charge from $50 to $75/hr for services not included in the services they itemize under the monthly charge.

Roger, does that include a "minimum"? In other words is it a straight $40/hr and if only 15 minutes was spent on the request, it would then cost $10 (plus materials)?

Or that it would be $40/hr, 1-hour minimum, so that if the mc only spent 15 minutes on the request, it would still cost $40?

AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960

Posted:

Charlie, don't you have a contract with them? Part of our contract reads that they will charge us "x" amount for copies; per page. In fact, when we need copies made we take them to our local printer (at .05 cents per page) and deliver them ourselves.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

Michele, the charge is $10 per quarter hour for retrieve files, monitor any review of the files in our office, time spent copying, and refiling. Also, there is a charge of $0.15/copy. Thus the primary cost is for time.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

Some additional thoughts for HOAs on items to include in their management agreement related to providing copies_
Be as open as possible on conduct of meetings and providing effective communications including posting copies of documents on a members only portion of a web site and/or providing copies of all financials, minutes, and other association docs via blind copy of an email to an email group consisting of those members who provide an email address. It takes a MC very little time to provide these services.

By planning ahead and being considerate of all members we have only had one member of one association view the files in the past 7 years (she was involved in court with a neighbor). And after reviewing the files she did not request any copies. Total cost was $50.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Roger,
This is a little off the subject, but, does your contract with the association specify who all official association documents belong to. Would a management co be able to exempt specific files? Would a Manager be able to retain or not turn over official files if the relationship is terminated?

The reason I ask is we are probably going to change Managers (a private individual), and I am wondering what files and papers have to be conveyed back to the association.

The current files are presently being maintained in the managers private home. Rent and expenses are paid to facilatate the security of these documents.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

Robert,
The official association documents belong to the association and should all be returned. The following is copied from our management agreement with a townhome association:

D. Association Records
The Managing Agent shall maintain the Association’s files; including maintenance files by each individual unit number. This information will be available for viewing and copying by any member of the Association upon a proper advance request; costs involved shall be paid by the owner. Upon termination of the Managing Agent the Association’s files may be retrieved by their designated representative after payment of all funds due to date.

JackieB (California)
Posts: 198

Posted:

where are you?

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JackieB on 10/26/2009 1:11 PM
where are you?

??

Who??

JackieB (California)
Posts: 198

Posted:

sorry.........CharlieM

CharlieM (California)
Posts: 42

Posted:

Thanks for all of the replies. Although $75 an hour may seem steep, being from California (Sacramento area) it may be appropriate for the industry.

Many skilled professions pay much less than these types of charges for making copies. How does the industry justify these types of charges for non-skilled labor?

Thanks again.

JackieB (California)
Posts: 198

Posted:

we asked the same from our PM. I think alot depends on how many members/homes......and if you can get a better deal elsewhere. We(BOD)
feel we need to get the best deal for our association's budget, considering all aspects of the project, and go from there. Our PM company has been very responsive to our concerns, questions, and knows
it's all about money and time. We understand that they have a big operation to support, and they understand we take finances very seriously. Bottom line, BOD decides if it's money well spent.
We are in Orange Co., CA.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

JackieB,
You make everything sound so cut and dried, not a bad thing by any means.

I just wonder if a Management Co. that works under a contract and then charges extra for services outside the contract, might be subject to some fair trade law. Straight copying of papers, picture or what have you could be done anywhere, but, files or papers of the association may not be so available if the contract allows for exclusive custody of association files. Where else could you go to or how could you get access to association files other than the management co? I suspect they may have created a monopoly and I also suspect they can't do that.

However this is speculation on my part, a skill I have some knowledge of (speculation). Maybe copying agreements should be agreed on inside the contract.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

Jackie, it is all about money and time as you stated. How many professionals expect to work without pay?

These items are covered in a good management agreements. As custodians, our highly skilled professionals, with advanced degrees and specialized training, will not let anyone tamper with the records for which they are responsible. An HOA often consists of a value in excess of $50,000,000 which must be protected.

JackieB (California)
Posts: 198

Posted:

Let me talk to both R's at the same time....and anyone else who finds
this interesting...or not! I believe they (PM) stated what they charged in their contract, and now it's being questioned...and rightfully so.
And I feel as Charles seemed to say, that you don't need highly skilled
professionals with advanced degrees and specialized training, running off
copies of the newsletter or whatever. My point is/was simple. The BOD
can/should question what "they choose" to spend the HOA's money on and
move accordingly. Yes, there are tons of things to consider....and each
issue is time and money........and if a mutual relationship is developed with the PM, then you both are on the same page. Bottom line, if too
expensive for a particular vendor. We simply ask for more bids and to have so-in-so included in the process. They send in their licenses, insurance policy, etc.......and the BOD makes the decision. It's really
simple math......not that complicated, a bit time consuming for the BOD
and the decision making is similiar to what you do for your own finances.
And yes, we (the BOD) are professionals in our own fields and volunteering "free."
Remember the PM works for the Board, and the HOA. not vice versa.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here