Voting Rights

Started by RayD2 • 11 replies • 2313 views

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RayD2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Our board is in the process of a mail-in vote with the double envelope system. I already know that at the next board meeting that they will announce the results, but the actual ballot count will take place prior to the meeting by the board themselves. They have done this before. I know that the correct procedure is to separate the inner envelope from the outer and discard the outer envelope. Then separate the ballot from the inner envelope. Then the counting is done. This should all take place in front of the membership. Can I call a point of order and demand that the vote be null and void due to failure to follow RRON? I know that if I do they will tell me that I am out of order and to sit down. This happens everytime someone disagrees with them. Are Federal Voting laws being violated because the members will never know if their vote was counted behind closed doors. Thank you

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Ray,

Well, at least they have the first half of the voting done right. We always use the double envelope system. Open them up and after the name is verified as being a member and I.D the validity of the envelopes unit or address, that should be thrown away or removed from the room.

Then they are supposed to open and count ballots. You should be able to have spotters viewing the actual counting process. not a candidate but someone neutral should be present in the room. 2 or 3 would be better. You can demand to have this done. That should be your right to do so.

A HOA does not have to follow any voting laws, Federal, State or Local. HOAs are an animal all to itself and can make up any crazy, fool rules that they want according to what your documents say.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

RONR speaks about the board appointing a "teller" (or a small group of trusted people who are not running for office) to verify the ballots, count the ballots, and then give the results to the president who anounces the actual counts at the meeting.

Candidates should not be counting ballots!

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Ray,

Donna said an ". . .HOA does not have to follow any voting laws, Federal, State or Local." I know she meant to say unless it is a State law specific to HOAs. Some states do have HOA laws concerning voting and you should check that out. Otherwise, the board only has to follow what is written in the bylaws. If the gov docs do not state Robert's Rules must be followed then they do not have to use the procedures outlined therein.

Actually the BOD should have an adopted procedure to follow and the one that Donna outlined is a good one to follow. Perhaps you can suggest that procedure to your BOD.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Thank You Mary,
that is what I meant to say. Many States, like Florida, do have HOA laws and within them have voting guidelines and laws regarding voting procedures and requirements. We see the statement that Roberts Rules are not being followed and again, as you say, unless the governing documents say that RRoO will be used, they also do not pertain. This all should be in your documents under voting and meeting.

RayD2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 3

Posted:

In South Carolina we don't have any laws governing HOA's yet, but they are working on it. Our bylaws do state that RRON be followed but like I said this Board is very arrogant and will do what ever they want. I was just hoping that I could use the threat of a federal voting law violation would work but now I have nothing to use. So they will continue to do what they want. Thanks everyone for your responses. Don't know what else to do.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Ray,

You have the power to change and to right things by using what you have surrounding you and that is the membership. The Board is elected by the members and by getting those members lined up and confront the Board that they have to do things the correct way. Demand that the ballot counting be monitored by a committee. You must engage the other members to become proactive with your Board.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

I personally feel better that our HOA has Roberts Rules to help guide procedure not covered in the bylaws or other documents. RONR talks about procedures for dealing with:
elections by acclamation
by ballot
voting wording
nominees
postponement to an adjourned meeting
repeated balloting
roll call votes
election placement at the meeting and time of effect
majority voting
tellers and president's roll in election
noticing of the meeting
ties
objection to the vote
electing officers
etc. etc.

At least if there is a snafu, then there is something to fall back on. It can be a safety net.

RayD2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Thanks again for all your support. I don't plan to give up. I keep reading RRON. I will be at the next meeting armed with all the info that I am gathering. I have also started a blog for the residents and that seems to be picking up steam. Maybe by the next meeting I will have enought people behind me that we can start to change things. Thanks again.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

GO GETTUM RAY!!! That's what I would do.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Our by-laws specifically address this.

No ballots may be opened prior to the meeting.

No ballots are accepted the day of the meeting.

All ballots have to be mailed and received with a post mark no later than 3 days before the meeting.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RayD2 on 10/23/2009 4:50 AM
In South Carolina we don't have any laws governing HOA's yet, but they are working on it. Our bylaws do state that RRON be followed but like I said this Board is very arrogant and will do what ever they want. I was just hoping that I could use the threat of a federal voting law violation would work but now I have nothing to use. So they will continue to do what they want. Thanks everyone for your responses. Don't know what else to do.

INCORRECT - if your HOA is a not-for-profit corporation it must follow the Not-For-Profit corporate laws of SC, which is very very specific and quite strict!

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