💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

DeeS1 (Michigan)
Posts: 223
Posted:
Our ACC rules have not been updated since the builder's time, so the board is taking a look at them to review and make updates as necessary. Our bylaws allow for the Rules and Regs to be changed by the BOD with majority vote and become effective 30 days after circulation to the Homeowners. Homeowners may petition and vote to remove any ACC rules not put in place by the builder (those require BOD vote).

Hypothetically, what would happen if our ACC rules currently permit playstructures/swing sets with approval and we want to change the rule to be "wood" playstructures/swing sets only. Would people who have previously "approved" metal swingsets be allowed to keep them because they were actually approved or would they be required to remove them? I would expect that anyone who had metal swings without approval could be expected to remove them if enforced, but what about the people who made their purchases with board approval?

Would people who received prior actual approvals be allowed to keep their modifications or would they too be required to remove them?

Also, if we make a slight alteration to an existing rule ... for example, if we changed an item from one the "requires prior approval" to one that is allowed without approval if it meets specified guidelines, would it be considered a "new rule" and subject to HO revoking or still an old rule with the builder? For example, an old rule requires birdbaths get prior approval. If we changed that to "Birdbaths under 2 feet tall are permitted," does it now become a new rule ... I'm afraid it probably does. Any thoughts.

Any advice before we go too far down the path?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Dee,

When an ACC rule is changed to outlaw a modification that was once allowed, there should be a grandfather clause attached to the new rule for those h/o's who had that particular modification approved in the past. If some h/o's have modifided their property but didn't obtain prior approval and the board has let it slide, IMO, the grandfather clause should also apply to them. If the board wasn't concerned to send them a violation notice in the past, why should they be concerned to do so now that the rule is changing! Just my personal opinion on that of course.

IMO, even a slight alteration of an existing rule should meet the same requirements for changing an existing rule in its entirety or proposing a completely new one.
DeeS1 (Michigan)
Posts: 223
Posted:
Thanks Mary:

Is adding in a "grandfather" statement as simple as one would think or does it require very specific verbiage.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Dee,

I believe the grandfather clause should contain specific info indicating who the clause applies to. For example: if the clause only applies to the existing property owner, that should be stated. Also, if the existing property owner wants to change the modification in question, it should be stated whether or not the grandfather clause would apply. For example, if metal playsets are no longer allowed, could a grandfathered h/o replace his playset with a metal one?
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
No, because you are talking about new or modified structures, even if they replace an 'old" grandfathered one.

Your rules may state that 'as of May 1, 2010, all play structures must be constructed from blah, blah, blah"

IMHO, those grandfathered structures should be tagged as such, with pictures taken for the file. Any replacement or modification to them would fall under the new restrictions.
DeeS1 (Michigan)
Posts: 223
Posted:
So then, would I be correct that anything with an "actual" grandfather clause attached to it could not be used as precedent with a new approval request ... they can't correctly contend that because there are three metal swing sets in the sub, so you have to approve mine?
MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 10/18/2009 4:56 PM
Your rules may state that 'as of May 1, 2010, all play structures must be constructed from blah, blah, blah"
Exactly as you said, Susan.

It could also be phrased, "all new play set construction must use . . ."

To be clear, owners of old (grandfathered) sets could maintain what they have -- replace damaged or rusty parts, etc -- but they might not be permitted to update or replace them without complying with the new guidelines.
MichaelK11 (Texas)
Posts: 432
Posted:
Exactly correct, Dee.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Dee,

That is correct. However, it's up to the board to determine of any grandfathered modifications would only apply to the original modification (which is the norm). That's why the BOD must state exactly what the grandfather clause applies to so the members will know exactly what they can and cannot do.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here