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President who 'back pedals' on agreements

Started by TammyS2 • 21 replies • 1577 views

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TammyS2 (Indiana)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Hello, I need some help. I am on our board for our HOA. We recently put together a budget proposal with different options to be voted on by our members. Our 3 board members agreed on the options. We mailed out ballots to all members to allow everyone to have a voice in how their money is spent and how much their annual dues will be for 2010. Two days AFTER everything was mailed, the President says we need to send yet another option for folks to vote on (we have 5 options available). This comes after we had our agreement made. This is a pattern with our President, she comes to board meetings, makes decisions and agreements with us and then....she gets home and her husband tells her this and that and she changes her mind and wants to 'back pedal' on the decisions that have been made and handed down to the members to either review on vote on. Anyway, I told the President that we had already made an agreement and that we have already received ballots back in the mail. She now wants to call a special meeting to discuss the new option, after folks have already begun voting. Our association consists of 31 lot owners and the only thing we spend money on is road maintenance. People are constantly picking fights over silly matters. What should I tell this President? She really has created some turmoil this year; she even rewrote the bylaws giving all authority to the President and took it away from other board members. Can anyone tell me what to do, I'm really at wits end. Thank you.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
You can remind the president that she is not the king/queen or dictator of the HOA.

The board is comprised of X number of directors.

Each director has an equal vote and none are higher or lower in rank than any other, so a single board member can not come into a meeting and say, "We are going to do X, Y and Z." without the majority of the board of directors agreeing to do whatever X, Y and Z are.

President does not equal "BOSS."

Much to her shock, I'm sure.

She is not the boss of the board. She is simply to be the M.C., so to speak, at meetings, and is generally the "mouthpiece" for the board to vendors, management companies, the attorneys, or whatever.

But again, NOT the "BOSS" of the board of directors. Time to remind her.

Frankly, the time to add "options" for review is already passed anyway.

Let her know gently, "Perhaps next year. . . ."
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
She can always put forth a motion for a special meeting, an amendment to the passed option, for her new-found option.

In the meantime, ignore her.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Actually, in our HOA, one cannot simply call a special meeting, even if that person is the president of the board, or any other single board member.

For a special meeting to be called without a majority assent of the board of directors, the person wanting the meeting must obtain a petition with at least 25% of those members eligible to vote.

RickW (Illinois)
Posts: 169
Posted:
Without knowing the particulars of you situation, on surface, it appears as if a board member needs to stand up and let the president know they cannot continue to conduct association business in the manner.

Perhaps someone standing up to the president will force the president to back down into a board member status.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Tammy, you say she re-wrote the By-Laws how? What in the original By-Laws gave her that right? While some Associations allow the BOD to change the By-Laws, often it requires a homeowner vote but I've never seen a CC&R that allowed one person to re-write the By-Laws. Often the homeowners elect the BOD and then the BOD elect the officer positions; if your HOA is similar I would ask the BOD to remove her from the position of president and appoint someone who is able to think and act on their own.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
TammyS2 (Indiana)
Posts: 21
Posted:
She decided since the bylaws that were written in 1997 were not on file at the county recorders office that it was her opportunity to re-write them. She did it and then summoned the other 2 board members to her home. WE went. Unfortunate for her, I knew the legal side of all of this as I have been consulting an attorney since I was ordered out of a meeting 3 years ago (for voicing my opinion). Anyway, in Indiana the bylaws have to be housed in the home of any ONE BOD. So, we called a special meeting and had our attorney present and she announced at the meeting that 'due to the threat of litigation' she would not be discussing her new bylaws. BTW, no where in our HOA bylaws does it say how to change the bylaws. At the state level, it requires at least 2 BOD members to change them and vote on them.

Our elections are approaching in November. From what I've been told, she is not running but her husband is. And you see, these folks in our HOA will not allow us to vote by ballot, therefore, their little 'group' of people has the majority vote at the meetings as we have homeowners/lot owners who own lots who live away, therefore, they don't get to voice their opinion or vote.

We believe we have upset their little voting group because by sending out ballots for voting on our budget, we allowed EVERYONE to vote and now, 'they' are trying to say that we cannot do the ballot thing, that the vote will be taken at the meeting without allowing those who can't attend the right to vote.

I am seriously considering starting a new HOA, letting those people do their own thing and our HOA running according to bylaws, covenants and the majority rules.

Sorry to go on and on, but we've been there 4 years and this is the kind of stuff that goes on all the time.
TammyS2 (Indiana)
Posts: 21
Posted:
When we had the attorney present at our meeting, she backed off. We believe that the driving force behind her is her husband. She did this same thing back in March. We (the 3 BOD) made an agreement about an agenda for a meeting and when we were going to do the meeting. Next thing you know, she sends us an email has changed the agenda and the date of the meeting. AND sent out notices to all other members without telling us first. Then reminded us that SHE is the president. So, we stopped communicating with her. Then started talking with our attorney. Then our attorney pointed out to us that we could make changes if we so desired, the law allowed it. So, we sent a letter to the members telling them of some bylaw changes we were going to make. We wrote new bylaws, that put in writing and spell out who has the authority to do what (the BOD, with the approval of the members). Then we held a meeting at my home and here the posse came down my driveway. We had an attorney present. As we were conducting the meeting, people were yelling at each other it nearly turned into a physical fight for a few. We adjourned and they left, but not without saying really nasty things to me.....I was like, whatever.

And now because we have proposed to use some of the 'hoarded' money that is in savings and just sits there, they are all mad again. We collect far more than what is needed and then they have just 'popped' it into this savings account, without a vote, mind you. All we do with the money is use it for road maintenance. With $4000 just sitting there and since some folks have lost their jobs this year, we proposed using some of that money, for this coming year and giving folks a break on their membership dues. 'THEY' say that we are dictating how the money is being used. We gave 5 different options to vote on and are allowing EVERYONE in the association a vote. 'THEY' don't think that is fair, to let everyone vote. So....................
TammyS2 (Indiana)
Posts: 21
Posted:
When we had the attorney present at our meeting, she backed off. We believe that the driving force behind her is her husband. She did this same thing back in March. We (the 3 BOD) made an agreement about an agenda for a meeting and when we were going to do the meeting. Next thing you know, she sends us an email has changed the agenda and the date of the meeting. AND sent out notices to all other members without telling us first. Then reminded us that SHE is the president. So, we stopped communicating with her. Then started talking with our attorney. Then our attorney pointed out to us that we could make changes if we so desired, the law allowed it. So, we sent a letter to the members telling them of some bylaw changes we were going to make. We wrote new bylaws, that put in writing and spell out who has the authority to do what (the BOD, with the approval of the members). Then we held a meeting at my home and here the posse came down my driveway. We had an attorney present. As we were conducting the meeting, people were yelling at each other it nearly turned into a physical fight for a few. We adjourned and they left, but not without saying really nasty things to me.....I was like, whatever.

And now because we have proposed to use some of the 'hoarded' money that is in savings and just sits there, they are all mad again. We collect far more than what is needed and then they have just 'popped' it into this savings account, without a vote, mind you. All we do with the money is use it for road maintenance. With $4000 just sitting there and since some folks have lost their jobs this year, we proposed using some of that money, for this coming year and giving folks a break on their membership dues. 'THEY' say that we are dictating how the money is being used. We gave 5 different options to vote on and are allowing EVERYONE in the association a vote. 'THEY' don't think that is fair, to let everyone vote. So....................
KirkW1 (Texas)
Posts: 1,665
Posted:
The big question here is:

Why is this person the president?

You and the other Board members should vote her out.
TammyS2 (Indiana)
Posts: 21
Posted:
She is the president because 'they' only allow people to vote who attend the meetings. We have 31 lot owners, out of the 31 - we usually get 15 people there. She and her husband, and their neighbors own 2 lots each, therefore they get 4 votes and then they have their 6 friends. The other 5 of us don't have enough votes to ever defeat ANY of that group, with the exception of last year when I was elected treasurer. 'They' won't allow ballots....we did that one year...and at the annual meeting, they denied the ballots.....literally ignored the voice of all members.

I really just want to form our own association, I am consulting an attorney on the legalities of that.
This is a no win situation when they won't allow everyone to vote.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Tammy if the HOA is responsible for road maintenance, chances are the money in savings small though it is, is for replacing the roads. If your CC&R's or Indiana law allows, gather proxies from the absent homeowners and vote the proxies. I would change the By-Laws ASAP and require future changes to be approved by the homeowners.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
TammyS2 (Indiana)
Posts: 21
Posted:
I agree with you about the money, however, they were using it for EVERYTHING but that. And using more than was approved by home owners. Example, we voted to put a dry pump on one owners property at his new pond, for fire trucks to refill if needed. We voted to spend no more than $1000 and that was the estimate. They ended up spending $1600 with no promise that we can use the dry pump if this person sales his property. Second, we approved to spend $500 for some advice from an attorney. They took it upon themselves to spend $1500 without even asking. So...........since I have been treasurer we are using ONLY funds collected for this year. We have asked in our new budget options to use part of the money in the savings account towards road maintanance...you know.....designate it for something instead of using it for whatever. Make sense?
TammyS2 (Indiana)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Glen,

Do you have an example of a proxy? Or an idea where I can get one? I have no problem writing people and asking them if I can vote for them, but I can bet you they won't allow the proxy votes. Because THEY will be defeated on things that they don't want changed or improved.

Tammy
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Tammy - either of these 2 examples is not reason for recall.
As treasurer, you should know that budgets can be amended.
I am not sure who the "we" is when you say the board is spending money approval.
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
Hi Tammy,

I simply renamed our savings account. When I presented budget numbers, I always gave the balance of our checking, our savings, and our investments. This year, I renamed the checking to "Operations Account", the savings to "Reserve Account".

If your association has some "issues" that might not work for you (mine doesn't have "issues, and the owners don't really care). We just had a reserve study done, so the owners understand that the reserve account is only to be used for reserve items (that appear on our reserve study) - except in cases of dire emergency...we won't touch that money for operations.

For the proxies...before you go looking for a template, make sure your documents address proxies, or that your state law (if your association falls under any state law) that proxies are ALLOWED. If the documents address proxies and how they can be used, and you use them that way, there's nothing the BOD can do about it. My association uses proxies. The suggestion for finding a proxy template is to google it. You need to determine what type of proxy you'll use, whether they'll be "official", if people can fax/email them in (digital signature issues), etc. But, before you do that (don't waste time), make sure you can use them.
TammyS2 (Indiana)
Posts: 21
Posted:
I do know that budgets can be amended, but that is never done. Previous to me, they spent however they wanted and charged dues however they wanted. WE who voted I was talking about the home owner membership. I have no problem with them amending anything, my problem is that they want to eliminate the use of ballots for voting and only allow those who come to the meeting a vote. Our Indiana laws provide for proxies AND ballots. This is not written in our bylaws, but when it is not in the bylaws you resort to the state laws.
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TammyS2 on 10/08/2009 6:04 AM
We approved to spend $500 for some advice from an attorney. They took it upon themselves to spend $1500 without even asking.

Ok, I'll forgive them this one. You all shouldn't have motioned "I move to allow the BOD to spend $500 to seek legal advice." Good lawyers charge that for about 1 to 1.5 hours of consultation/research. If you needed legal advice, and the membership approved spending association funds for legal advice, I don't think this is an "impeachable" offense.

Being a homeowner in an association that doesn't have good communication can be VERY frustrating...trust me, I know. But, before you go off half-cocked (I don't mean this to sound mean)...try and work within the system.

One of your posts made it sound like you might be carrying a torch for past issues...being removed from a meeting three years ago? Now is not the time to try to get revenge...which might not be what you're doing.

Go into this with pure intentions. You need to have the best interests of the ASSOCIATION as numero uno... Not your interests, not other members' interests...
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TammyS2 on 10/08/2009 6:07 AM
Glen,

Do you have an example of a proxy? Or an idea where I can get one? I have no problem writing people and asking them if I can vote for them, but I can bet you they won't allow the proxy votes. Because THEY will be defeated on things that they don't want changed or improved.

Tammy

Tammy I'm not an attorney but here is an example of one we've used with the address changed. A proxy is a legal power of attorney for a specific purpose.
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Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
TammyS2 (Indiana)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Glen,

Thank you for that proxy. Now...how is that done. Say I get the folks who will not be attending to sign these. I can then vote for them on all matters that require a vote. Do I just give copies of the proxies to the board members and ALL homeowners to show that I have this or how does that work?

Tammy
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
First off make copies of anything you turn in. In general terms if you have my proxy along with Mary's, Michele's, Donna's and Rick's and you turn them in you would receive six ballots to vote. Yours and one for each proxy submitted, you would in effect become all of us for this vote.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
TammyS2 (Indiana)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Tricia,

I understand what you are saying, and no I don't carry a torch about being kicked out of a meeting 3 years ago, I just mentioned that as one of the examples of how this small community of people acts. I am seriously looking at this proxy thing. I think that is the ticket to taking back this group and getting it to work under our existing documents.

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