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LouiseS (West Virginia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
As the President of a HOA, I really could use some help. I was the chair at our recent annual meeting. I was told that these meetings are traditionally antagonistic with the board against the membership. I had already resigned from the board and was determined to remain fair and neutral to the members. In so doing I asked the secretary to sit down when he was verbally attacking a member because he didn't like his question. He refused to sit down which started an argument and the host kicked everyone out.

A homeowner invited everyone to her home and about two thirds of the members present(about 30 people) reconvened at this home. There were 4 board members present. The ByLaws state that "Special meetings of the members, for any purpose or purposes, may be called by the President or by any two members of the Board of Directors, and shall be called by the request of twenty-five (25% of the members of the association." The board called this a special meeting and made plans with complete unity of everyone present to hold another election, where to send ballots, who would send them out, etc. This was an impromptu meeting without the full membership being notified.

After leaving the meeting, the VP, who was present changed her mind and called the meeting a sham. She has decided that we don't need an election and the current board members can stay in office, or alternatively, the two year board members. She also wants to vote me out. Another board member said it was a sham because she didn't know about it. A third board member is the secretary that I told to sit down.

A regular board meeting has been called this weekend, and at this time, we have 3 members who want to follow through with our plans and the 3 (described above)who don't.

My understanding is that we need to hold an annual meeting. Our by laws say the meeting is to be held on the 4th Saturday of September which was our incomplete meeting.

My concern is the fairness to the membership. It was looking like the current board was going to be voted out.

Thanks.

Louise
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Louise welcome. While I have no doubts that your documents give you the power to call a special meeting, I'm sure there is a notice requirement also so that all that want to attend can; so your special meeting was probably invalid. If you resigned from the Board why were you chairing the meeting? And if you resigned how did you call a SM? It sounds like you have a lot of drama going on. As to your aborted annual meeting, did you make quorum to have the meeting to begin with? If not then the current Board would remain until a proper meeting could be held. If you are still on the BOD then the other members can remove you from the position of president but not from the Board unless your documents state different. Next time you hold a member meeting, I would hire an off duty sheriff to act as sergeant at arms and remove anyone causing a disturbance, Board member or homeowner.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Are you having annual meetings in homes? That's a no-no. When the "host" kicked everyone out, the meeting should have been adjourned to another place and re-convened.

Sounds like the presiding officer lost control of the meeting. (Why is the secretary responding to member's questions?)

Elections MUST be held if it's in your bylaws. Call a special meeting for the purpose of elections - and get a neutral party to preside at the meeting AND hold the election.

Sounds like a clean slate needs to take place, anyway.

LouiseS (West Virginia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
You guys have helped me feel so much better. Yes the meeting was in a home, and I agree that they should be in a neutral place. There are also people who want to tape record the meeting (due to lack of trust). In the past the homeowner has refused to let them tape.

I was the (outgoing) president and the presiding officer who lost control of the meeting. The pattern of the board in the past is to spend the whole meeting aruging with the members. This year the secretary put "secret" numbers on the ballots & proxies to insure that they were the same ones that he mailed out. Basically there was nothing wrong with this, but as I said the membership doesn't trust the board and his system precluded emailing, faxing, etc. He also unilaterally set a cutoff time. In the meantime a current board member is picking up the mail. There was no system to safeguard against "lost" ballots. So the trouble started when a member questioned the secretary's system. The secretary got very defensive and stood up and loudly responded. I told him he didn't have the floor and that is when we all got kicked out.

Basically we did re-convene at another place, but we didn't do it formally. Instead we called it a special meeting. I would have to say that 90% of the people knew where the meeting was reconvened, but it's very difficult to say.

The problem remains that the board is split on the election. Some of the them seem to think that since we missed the "official" annual meeting date that we have to wait until next year. I think it is all a ploy to stay in office.

Thanks again for all your help and support.

Louise
LouiseS (West Virginia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
I've been reading old forums and am concerned about two things:

The date of our annual meeting is in the bylaws (4th Saturday of September). Since we did not have an election at the annual meeting, I assume a Special Meeting must be called. Our Bylaws say that this can be done by any two members.

We have two members that are three year members. The officers all serve for one year and the bylaws say "the term of this office for each shall be one (1) year".

It appears that we might only have two members in office. They can call a special meeting, but what if they disagree. Do we have to have an election or can they decide to wait until next year? The bylaws say "the annual meeting of the members shall be for the purpose of electing a Board of Directors".

What about petitions from the membership? If the two board members choose not to hold an election, what power does the membership have? The bylaws are silent on petitions.

btw, The association is in WV - no Hatfield & McCoy jokes.

Thanks again.

Louise
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Your bylaws set the TERM, so if you were supposed to hold an election and have not, then your board may not be in power at all.

Hold an election ASAP.

Reminder: people can serve several terms, but their term of office IS still for only one year.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 10/07/2009 5:23 AM
Reminder: people can serve several terms, but their term of office IS still for only one year.

Except in cases where the governing documents allow for them to remain on the board until replaced.

Louise will need to make sure theirs do not.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MicheleD on 10/07/2009 5:43 AM
Posted By SusanW1 on 10/07/2009 5:23 AM
Reminder: people can serve several terms, but their term of office IS still for only one year.


Except in cases where the governing documents allow for them to remain on the board until replaced.

Louise will need to make sure theirs do not.

Also, not all terms of office are for 1 year; ours are for 3 years and the terms are staggered. Only the officers whose terms were up would be affected.

State law should also be researched, including the state nonprofit corp act. What is not mentioned in the bylaws may be outlined in state law. I think you'll find that board members hold their offices until replaced.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Louise,

You have brought up so many issues, it's hard to know where to start!

First of all, if there was a slate of candidates then the election should take place. If your document allow for mail-in ballots this might be the way to go rather than call another actual meeting.

Secondly, when meetings are held in members homes, the member is not in charge. Their home is only being used as a meeting place. This should be made clear to them. The homeowner had no right to end the meeting unless he/she called for a motion to adjourn and it was seconded. Same with the tape recording. It's not up to the h/o to determine whether or not tape recording shall be allowed at board and/or member meetings. That's a decision for the board to make but they should check out state law first.

Lastly, the "special meeting" that was called was not a valid meeting because all members of the assn were not notified. I'm sure you'll find that you bylaws state all members must receive notice of a special meeting. Regardless of what the board members "think", it's what is outlined in your bylaws and state law that must be followed. If your bylaws contain a provision telling you what to do if a quorum is not reached, that is what must be done.

As a final note regarding having meetings in members homes: Whereas its best to have assn meetings in a clubhouse, church or school facility,etc., that is not always possible. Many assn's don't have meeting facilities and off-site facilities are not always available. I lived in an HOA that was "forced" to have their meetings in members' homes; usually the board members took turns. If having your meetings in members' homes is what you're forced to do then you must make the best of it. Also, because you seem to have a few members (and at least one board member) who can be volatile; the board must set some ground rules. Paying an off-duty police officer to attend meetings may be a necessity if the Pres is unable to maintain control of the meetings. The Pres should have a talk with the hot-headed board member, cautioning him to maintain his decorum. As a board member and rep. of the assn he should be setting an example, not being part of the problem.
LouiseS (West Virginia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Thanks for everyone's input. We have two board members who serve a three year term and the officers serve one year. The Bylaws clearly say a term of one year.
The two board members can call a special meeting and hold an election which would include absentee ballots. If the two do not agree to do this, I see the only alternative as a petition from the membership. There is a whole slate of candidates with every board position being contested, and, yes we need a new slate.

I also really appreciate the advice on having meetings in homes. We can hold our meetings offsite for free and must do this. This would solve a few problems (recording, getting kicked out, etc.) In fact, a place has already been reserved for the special meeting. All the plans were made for the election and now the best we can hope for is for the two remaining members to formally endorse them. I will also recommend an off duty sheriff at the next annual meeting.

I still have some research to do on WV law. The one thing I have found is that it is pretty clear that an election needs to take place. There are people who think because we missed the date in the bylaws that we have to wait until next year. It doesn't really surprise me because I think they will go to any length to stay in power.

I was reading old forums about proxies and how some people go door to door with their own proxy to gain support. This is the kind of thing that started the argument at our meeting. The board proposed that there was only one "official" proxy which was the one that the secretary sent out (with special numbers). The "difficult" secretary was refusing some of the proxies that a candidate for president brought to the meeting. I don't know very much about proxies, but it seems like it can get pretty convoluted. This secretary unilaterally did all this. Does anyone use "official" proxies?

I have four people on the now defunct board who hate me and it's hard to deal with. It's a "If you aren't for us, you're against us" mentality. However, I have a lot of members who love me for trying to create change.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Okay, I know you didn't mean to do this, buy you've got me very confused.

Would it be possible for you to share with us the verbiage of your by-laws that discuss board members and officers?

I ask that because it seems that we might be getting back into the territory of confusing officers and directors again.

In most associations, the bylaws specify the number of directors that comprise the board and set their terms. Some may all have the same term length, say, one year, or two years. Some may have staggered terms.

Then from that cadre of directors (board members), the board members elect officers, which the by-laws may also specify their terms (one year, etc).

But generally the membership does not vote for the officers. And once an officer's term is up, that does not necessarily mean the officer is no longer on the board, if the terms of the directors is for more than one year, for example.

Please share with us exactly what your by-laws specify as the composition of the board of directors.

How many directors does it say you have or can have?
What do the by-laws say exactly about their terms?
How many officers does it say you have or can have?
What do the by-laws say exactly as to who elects them?
LouiseS (West Virginia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Sorry to confuse you - I do appreciate the help. Here you go:

Board of Directors - Election and Term:
The business and affairs of this Association shall be managed by a board of three (3) Board of Director members, all of which shall be lot owners in the Subdivision, subject to this Association. The elected members of the Board of Directors may serve not more than two (2) terms consecutively. At the first annual meeting of the Association, one (1) of the elected members shall be elected for a one (1) year term, one (1) of the elected members shall be elected for a two (2) year term, and one (1) of the elected members shall be elected for a (3) year term, except in the case of those elected to fill an unexpired term. Each year after the first annual meeting of the Association and the Nominating Committee shall on or before the 3rd Sunday of July of each year submit to the Board of Directors a list of five (5) members of the Association nominated for election to the Board of Directors. The members of the Board of Directors to be elected annually shall be selected from the five (5) names submitted by the Nominating Committee, however, this provision of the ByLaws shall not prevent a person from being elected to the Board of Directors by a write-in ballot.

Officers
Number: The officers of the Association shall be a President, Vice-President, Secretary and Treasurer, nominated by the Nominating Committee by and from the Association, and elected by the Association. Nomination by and from the Association will also be taken from the floor.

Election and Term of Office:
The officers of the Association shall be elected by the Association at the Annual Meeting of the members of the Association, and the term of this office for each shall be one (1) year.
----------------------------------

Yes the membership elects the officers. I know its not normal and probably sets us up for more problems.

The Board has not had a nominating committee. Instead they ask their friends to run. In fact last year they put my name down as president without my even knowing. I came into all this mess cold. It took me about six months to understand the power struggle between the board and the members. Every election is the membership trying to take some of that power away and the board doing everything in their power to keep it. It's exhausting.

Louise

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Yup. You have a strange bird there.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Louise I would get the members together and call a special meeting to replace the current BOD. I would then assist the new BOD in re-writing the by-laws to replace these poorly written and confusing sections. While I live in a condo, I've tacked on the section of our By-Laws to give you an idea of how we handle the annual meeting, election, proxies and election of officers.

Unless it was stated somewhere that the only proxies that would be accepted were "official proxies" provided by the HOA, the secretary was in the wrong to refuse the proxies presented.
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Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Louise,

What do your bylaws say about amendments? Many give this authority to the board, others require a vote of the members. I ask because it appears to me yours need to be amended to get rid of the confusing requirements for electing a BOD and officers. Most often the members elect the BOD and they, in turn, elect the officers from the board members. So, you end up with perhaps a 5-member BOD and 4 of those directors serving as the officers. Every board member serves for the same term of office, whether it be 1, 2 or 3 years.

Your bylaws state a nominating committee must present a slate of 5 candidates who will be running for a director position. What about the officer positions that are up for election each year? If you board is not appointing a nominating committee then they are violating the bylaws, which is a big no-no and a cause for recall. Perhaps it's time to unseat them. Check out your gov docs to see what the procedure is for a recall. Also check out state law.
LouiseS (West Virginia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Thanks again.

It was this proxy mess that ended our annual meeting and caused all these problems.

In terms of recalling the board. If we only have the two directors still in office at this time, there probably isn't a need to recall. I'm hoping that these two will call the special meeting to hold the election. There's always the possibility that some of the same people will be elected to the board. They work very hard at campaigning. Can a recall be retroactive? I think it is necessary to let the members know that the board has not been following the bylaws. I suppose this can all be done in a petition as well.

The obvious thing is for me to write a letter to the membership. I only hesitate because there were a lot of contentious emails that went out prior to the aborted annual meeting. I don't want any letter that I send out to fall on deaf ears.

Louise
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Louise,

By writing a letter you could also be setting yourself up for trouble. If you state just one little untruth you could be hit with a lawsuit.

I don't know how a recall could possibly be retroactive. A recall is for board members that are in office. If they're no longer in office they don't need to be recalled! With only 2 board members left, if your bylaws allow appointments, they could appoint their friends to fill the vacancies. Some directors serve for 3 years, right? Unless the 2 remaining in office are not violating any of the gov docs, perhaps they do not deserve to be recalled. Perhaps you can speak to them and convince them to start holding elections the proper way. I cannot imagine your bylaws do not allow balloting; I've never heard of such a thing. Also, unless proxies have been outlawed by state law (such as in AZ) they are usually also allowed. Some boards only allow the proxy which they send to the members to be used. And some board require the proxy to be given to a board member, usually the sec. I don't know that either of these requirements is legal; however, it would cost you a lot of money to find out. Most people would think it's not worth the time, effort and expense so they just go along with the board's requirements. In most instances voting can be carried out in person, by mail or by proxy.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
We have this same set up: officers are elected, then general board members (5) are elected. Only ALL have the same length of terms. I have never liked this, but it's been for 48 years, so there's not much chance of changing it.

The Annual Meeting is not "aborted" - it should have been adjourned to another time (set at THAT time) for the purpose of the election. Since this was not done, the Board should set it NOW and hold it ASAP

Do this before a judge tells you to.

PS. You need a full general member board, at least. Fill the board positions by appointment, if needed. You need some kind of governing board at this time.

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