unleashed/unsupervised/uncontrolled dogs...

Started by GloriaL • 13 replies • 2352 views

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GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195

Posted:

Probably this topic has been discussed before...but here it is again seeking your help.

Our CCR's (plus the city has a Leash Law), require that a dog be leashed when off its own property. Also that the animals' waste must be picked up and properly disposed. Plain and simple...huh? You would think so.

However, there are some HO's who allow their dogs to roam the entire neighborhood, doing their business wherever, and going home whenever.

The point of all of this diatribe is the BOD has been approached on more than several occassions by a HO who has been frightened by the presence of these dogs on their property, and their little child is terrified into hysterics. The owners of the dogs has been told by the irate HO to leash their dogs & pick up their poop. The BOD has sent out announcements from our website citing the violation of our CCR's, advising of the city's Leash and Curb Laws, and advising any HO frightened by an unleashed/unsupervised/uncontrolled dog to immediately call the city Police for assistance.

What more can the BOD do?

I'd love to read your thoughts.
GloriaL

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

That is exactly the right advice, call the police or animal control. Take pictures to prove the animal is off leash and if your CC&R's allow it, have the animal removed. Ours:

Animals and Pets. No animals, rabbits, livestock, fowl or poultry of any
kind shall be raised, bred or kept in any Unit or Common Elements, except that dogs, cats or other household pets may be kept in Units and shall not be permitted to run loose; subject to the Rules and Regulations, provided that they are not kept, bred or maintained for any commercial purpose. Any such pet causing or creating a nuisance or unreasonable disturbance shall be permanently removed from the property subject to these restrictions upon seven (7) days written notice from the Board of Trustees of the Association. Pets permitted as above shall be leashed or restrained during walking or exercise within the Common Elements.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Gloria, we had a resident violating our nuisance clause with 3 dogs.

We ultimately had to take the homeowner to court seeking an injunction and for a judge to compel compliance.

The judge found for our HOA and ordered the dogs removed from the property.

They are now gone.

People get very stubborn, and get even more stubborn when it comes to their animals.

The sad part is they are obviously not very caring owners since it bothers them not one bit that their dogs could meet the business end of a moving vehicle.

I've not seen many dogs win that confrontation.

GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195

Posted:

I had not thought of telling the irate (and rightly so) HO to get a photo of the dog on their property. If I am approached again, I will offer that great suggestion. I did tell the HO to call the police to file a complaint so that it is on record if this happens again...and from past performance, I am sure it will. In fact, the dogs were out again this morning as I was leaving the Community.

Michelle, in our announcement from our website, we specifically stated that in addition to possibly posing a potential threat to children and adults, these dogs were themselves in peril from vehicles and other animals/critters. We have coyotes in our area, and just last week a copperhead snake was squished while crossing the road. Owners have a responsibilty for their pets' safety as well as their neighbors.

I just feel that some people except the BOD to be police. They call us, we strap on our firearms and go out to settle dispute. Doesn't quite work that way. That is why we adamantly advise to call the real Police.

Doesn't that sound logical?

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GloriaL on 09/27/2009 3:26 PM

I just feel that some people except the BOD to be police. They call us, we strap on our firearms and go out to settle dispute. Doesn't quite work that way. That is why we adamantly advise to call the real Police.

Doesn't that sound logical?

Gloria this made me smile because it's so true. We had a member call the BOD president from his cell phone to tell him to call 911 because there was a fire in one of the dumpsters. Oh did I mention this idiot was our former BOD president and often lamented homeowners that called him instead of the authorities.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195

Posted:

Not only is the BOD expected to be the "dog police", but "street police" as well. When there seemed to be interest in creating a neighborhood watch, everyone was fired up. Until they realized that they would actually have to watch themselves. It seemed to be the thought that people could just call the BOD with anything they thought was unusual and the BOD would go out themselves and patrol. When the BOD stated that a neighborhood watch program meant exactly that...the neighborhood would do the watching NOT the BOD, (which would just support the program) it died before it even got started.

Now it seems that this dog issue is going the same route. The irate HO has every right to be irate. However, the BOD has no muscle, nor wants any muscle, to physically address loose dogs. We will issue announcements, violation notices and direct the HO to call the Police themselves to protect their family, but I certainly am not running down the street with a cattle prod. If it were myself and my children who felt threatened, I know that I would call the real Police first and then maybe worry about whether it violated the CCR's.

And these particular poor dogs are really sweet and gentle, just unsupervised, and that is not their fault.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Gloria, with all due respect, I think you (the board) are not only expected to be the "dog police," but to do something about it as well.

It seems your covenants address this sort of activity directly and, as such, I most definitely would expect the HOA to enforce against owners violating this covenant just as much as I would expect them to enforce against a parking violation or an unapproved construction violation.

So I don't think it's at all unreasonable for the homeowners to contact the BOD in regards to these unleashed, roaming dogs.

Yes, the violations are also city code violations, so you do get a little bit of an assist there. Meaning you can ask homeowners to also call Animal Control AND you can do so as well.

I would still ask the homeowners to take pictures of the roaming, randomly pooping dogs.

And the board can use those pictures, along with depositions from the homeowners who are witnessing the dogs, in the lawsuit when the board takes the dog owners to court for repeated violation of the covenants.

Yes, I agree that homeowners as a rule get lazy and/or comfortable calling the board for each and every little thing, even if that "little" thing is not covered in our covenants.

We get calls all the time about street lights that are out, or speeders (really?! a speeder?! You want I should jump on my 10-speed and peddle after him??).

Anyway, yes I agree that they think we are the equivalent of the "police" and we had that same mindset when we tried, for over 8 years, to get a neighborhood watch going.

But don't let your peeves against them cloud your duty to enforce when you actually have that responsibility for that particular violation in your covenants.

It CAN be done. It will just take a little bit of elbow grease, and a letter or two from an attorney letting them know the complaint that is being filed and the court date.

LeeB1 (Florida)
Posts: 8

Posted:

I can't believe that I just finished writing a letter to a unit owner regarding his renter and his dog, about just the same problem. Ours is one of the few communities that allows dogs. We have very simple rules regardings pets: dogs are to be on leashes at all times,walk them on the outside perimeter of the properity and pick up your poop. We are a small community with about twenty units having dogs. It is no surprise that three units abide by the rules.
Florida has a poop and leash law which as you know a hand full of people abide by. Taking them to court will be our next step. It is really unfair to both people with pets and to those who do not, they have no regard toward others. Let us know if you suceed in solving your problem

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

If the dogs are roaming, call animal control/police. Have the dogs picked up and brought to the pound. I bet the owner wont let it happen again.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Well, one would think so, Steve.

I actually had a resident verbally accost me at a Walgreens over this.

Our covenants do not address dogs, per se, except to say that pets are allowed as long as there are no dog runs and as long as there is no breeding operation.

We do have a standard "nuisance" clause that we have from time to time used for homeowners with dogs that bark excessively or roam the neighborhood.

We also will contact animal control, in addition to the complaining homeowners (we always direct a complaining homeowner to call and report the incident. The more separate calls they receive, the better if something needs to wind up in court).

But there was one neighbor in the subdivision who had been letting her large dogs out everyday around noon. They would roam for about an hour then go back home.

Someone, one of her nearby neighbors, apparently had been calling Animal Control about it quite frequently. That neighbor had not been contacting the board. We didn't find out about it until way after the fact.

Well, Animal Control officers picked up the dogs a couple times. I imagine there are fines associated with that.

Why she would continue to let them out is beyond me. I think one of the dogs ended up not being returned to them at some point.

Of course, I don't know a thing about this until I'm in Walgreens one day. There I am in the soap and shower gel aisle and she turns the corner and starts SCREAMING at me! Calling me all sorts of names and railing about how her dog is now gone because of me (I was board president at that time). . . I was like, "What the **** are you talking about?!" What I really said, though, was, in a calm low voice, "Lady I recommend you stop yelling at me. You are making a fool of yourself." Then I just walked away.

Anyway, she followed me through the store hurling offensive names at me until the manager asked her to leave.

Freaky. People can be so - - unpredictable!

GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MicheleD on 09/28/2009 8:13 AM
Gloria, with all due respect, I think you (the board) are not only expected to be the "dog police," but to do something about it as well.

It seems your covenants address this sort of activity directly and, as such, I most definitely would expect the HOA to enforce against owners violating this covenant just as much as I would expect them to enforce against a parking violation or an unapproved construction violation.

So I don't think it's at all unreasonable for the homeowners to contact the BOD in regards to these unleashed, roaming dogs.

Yes, the violations are also city code violations, so you do get a little bit of an assist there. Meaning you can ask homeowners to also call Animal Control AND you can do so as well.

I would still ask the homeowners to take pictures of the roaming, randomly pooping dogs.

And the board can use those pictures, along with depositions from the homeowners who are witnessing the dogs, in the lawsuit when the board takes the dog owners to court for repeated violation of the covenants.

Yes, I agree that homeowners as a rule get lazy and/or comfortable calling the board for each and every little thing, even if that "little" thing is not covered in our covenants.

We get calls all the time about street lights that are out, or speeders (really?! a speeder?! You want I should jump on my 10-speed and peddle after him??).

Anyway, yes I agree that they think we are the equivalent of the "police" and we had that same mindset when we tried, for over 8 years, to get a neighborhood watch going.

But don't let your peeves against them cloud your duty to enforce when you actually have that responsibility for that particular violation in your covenants.

It CAN be done. It will just take a little bit of elbow grease, and a letter or two from an attorney letting them know the complaint that is being filed and the court date.

Michelle,

I think the direction to advise the HO to get photos of the unleashed, roaming dogs, as well as them pooping (if one is quick enough to have the camera on hand at that precise moment) is really helpful. If we are contacted again, we will relate those instructions to the offended HO. With that in hand, the BOD can write a letter directly to the dog owner. Also the HO will have substantitive evidence for filing a real Police complaint.

The point is the dogs' owners know they are in violation of our CCR's,know that they are breaking the city's Leash Law, know that there are people on our little street who are terrified by the roaming dogs, know that there is a possibility that their dogs may be in danger of a car or other critters, but do not care enough to stop the behavior. Oh, by the way, these particular owners have a TWO ACRE FENCED IN BACKYARD. So there is really little excuse for these dogs to be out unattended...

Go figure.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Gloria, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a cell phone nowadays without some type of camera.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Gloria, I was pretty sure the violators know what they are doing and know about being in violation.

The point of my post was to say that the BOD really needs to take this to the next level, or you will continue to get the violation.

Right now they are not in any way motivated to comply with the regulations.

A notice from an attorney about the HOA's intent to bring suit to compel compliance, along with a draft copy of the complaint may well be all that's needed.

Right now you (and the city, frankly) are simply paper tigers, sending out a vicious bark, but no bite whatsoever.

The letter from the attorney may be all that's needed.

It's worked several times in our HOA for the exact same behavior, and we don't even have as solid a covenant against the activity as your HOA does. Ours is just a generic "nuisance" covenant.

On the one occasion where we had to actually pull the trigger on our bluff, the judge found for the HOA and ordered the dogs removed and the resident to pay our costs.

GloriaL (Georgia)
Posts: 195

Posted:

I agree with you completely that this may need to be taken to the next level, which is a notice from our attorney demanding compliance and those attorney costs will be borne by the negligent HO. Sometimes the only bite that is needed is one in the wallet.

I keep hoping that there will be an amicable end, everyone will be respectful of their neighbors, abide by our simple CCR's, and the sun will come out tomorrow.

I'll pass out copies of my rose-colored glass for all who need them.

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