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RuthN (Florida)
Posts: 41
Posted:
Is it permissible under Florida code for a Home Owners Association Board of Directors meeting to be held via a conference call? This is assuming that proper notice has been given (posted) to association members and the meeting site where many of the Board members will be physically present is open to the membership.
PeterB1 (Florida)
Posts: 257
Posted:
Put it the other way... There is nothing (that I found) in the statutes that prohibits it. Check your by-laws.

We have been doing it for a couple of Board members - snowbirds.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Ruth & Peter,

I didn't see anything in the FL 720 statutes addressing teleconferencing. However, since FL does have an open meeting law which states notice must be given to the members, I would think a speakerphone would be required so everyone attending the meeting can hear both sides of the conversation. AZ also has an open meeting law and this would be the requirement for a teleconference.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

RuthN.

It is permissable. The Statute is (617 Florida Not For Profit Corp Statutes) under which your HOA is registered

617.0820 Meetings.--

(1) The board of directors may hold regular or special meetings in or out of this state.

(4) Unless the articles of incorporation or the bylaws provide otherwise, the board of directors may permit any or all directors to participate in a regular or special meeting by, or conduct the meeting through the use of, any means of communication by which all directors participating may simultaneously hear each other during the meeting. A director participating in a meeting by this means is deemed to be present in person at the meeting.

RuthN (Florida)
Posts: 41
Posted:
Thank you Donna! I knew you would have the answer!
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

RuthN,

You are welcome. Many of us forget about using 617 and I always turn to it about administrative questions. Usually the answer is in there.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Speaking of FL's Chapt 617 (non profit corp act):

This statute naturally does not address the HOAs open meeting law which is found in the HOA specific statutes. I believe if the FL attorney general were to offer an opinion on the topic he would say a speakerphone would be required so that anyone attending the meeting could hear all sides of the conversation. As you can see the 617 statute is only concerned with the board members hearing the conversation.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Mary,

Statutes 617 was written prior to the year 2000 when the ole wise State of Florida drafted seperate statutes for HOAs(720, condos(718) and mobile homes(723) But all of these associations prior to 2000 are still registered under 617 and unless their Articles have been amended, they follow 617 along with their respective condo, hoa or mobile statutes.

If you compare 617 with the others, you will find no conflict between the two and they reference each others numbers. and Board meetings are open to all.

The O.P questioned ----- "Is it permissible under Florida code for a Home Owners Association Board of Directors meeting to be held via a conference call? This is assuming that proper notice has been given (posted) to association members and the meeting site where many of the Board members will be physically present is open to the membership. "

My answer is a simple " YES YOU CAN"
JohnO6 (Georgia)
Posts: 424
Posted:
Mary - I may not be correct on this, and even if I am, it's certainly fair to accuse me of being picky, picky, picky .. .. ..

This is the second thread in which you've made reference to a state's Attorney General issuing "an opinion" on a existing statute. That is not the appropriate role for an AG. Obviously anyone is free to issue an opinion on anything, but we shouldn't infer that an AG's opinion either does or doesn't validate or apply to a given set of circumstances given the law on the books. That role is for the State Supreme Court (and higher courts if necessary). We should be careful that interpreting the AG's opinion is NOT an interpretation of the law itself, rather it gives us an indication of whether the AG considers a given set of circumstances worthy of his office's time and effort to enforce.

So now I'll sit back and let all the other attorney's on this board (armchair and otherwise - me being neither) chew on this awhile ")
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Donna,

I was not questioning your answer. I was only saying that if the AG were to issue an opinion I feel he would state a speakerphone would be required to be in accordance with the open meeting law that is in effect. I also think any prudent board would arrange for a speakerphone even though it is not explicitly required by statute. Of course we all know not all boards are prudent!
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
John,

Apparently you are not well-versed on the role of the Attorney General in State government. From the AZ Attorney General's website:

"The Attorney General serves as the chief legal officer of the State. The Attorney General’s Office represents and provides legal advice to most State agencies. . . and prepares formal legal opinions requested by State officers, legislators, or county attorneys on issues of law."

"Attorney General opinions are issued when requested by a legislator, any public officer of the State or County Attorney, on a question of law relating to their office." These opinions cover a broad range of topics including interpretation of state statutes.

JohnO6 (Georgia)
Posts: 424
Posted:
Mary - That quote actually supports my position. The AG's client is the State on one side of the legal table. So the AG is giving his client advice and in doing so is rendering legal opinion and statute interpretation for the benefit of his client. However he is not able to render an interpretation on the validity of the statute itself - that remains the role of the State Supreme Court.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
John,

Except that I interpreted your position to be that the AG's opinion cannot be used to interpret the statute. This is wrong! The AG's opinion can and is used to interpret what the statute means. Statutes are written by legislators (state "actors") thereby allowing the AG to interpret what they enact into law. For example, there have been AG opinions rendered for the HOA and the public body open meeting laws and these "opinions" must be taken into consideration when applying all of these statutes.

BTW, I never did mention the validity of the statute. When a bill is being considered in the legislature it must go through the Rules committee for a determination as to whether or not it is valid (legal); therefore, all laws enacted are considered to be legal. Of course the legality of a statute can only be determined in a court of law; I never said anything to dispute that. And I believe the State Supreme Court would only get involved if there were appeals to the lower court's ruling.
JohnO6 (Georgia)
Posts: 424
Posted:
Mary - We're actually in fundamental agreement. I just didn't want anyone to infer that AG issued opinions confer anything other than (a) the state's (one party of any given legal issue) "read" on what the law is and how it should be interpreted, and consequently (b) the likley course of action the state would take in applying the law for a given set of circustances.

From a very practical point of view the AG opinions ARE incredibly important precisely because they DO provide insight into the state's postion.

As I said in my first post on this topic, I'm being "picky, picky, picky" and cutting pretty fine distinctions.

I suppose it's part of my nature, giving some credence to the "devil's in the details" mentality.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
John,

I can by picky too! Here's exactly what you said that I took exception to and you seem to now be changing your point of view about:

"This is the second thread in which you've made reference to a state's Attorney General issuing "an opinion" on a existing statute. That is not the appropriate role for an AG."

That statement led me to believe that you think the AG does not have the authority to issue an opinion on existing statutes. So, if you think that, you must also think that any opinion he does issue doesn't mean anything. Now you tell me you agree with me! Sorry, but that sounds like back-pedaling to me.

I also don't believe you agree with me when you say: "I just didn't want anyone to infer that AG issued opinions confer anything other than (a) the state's (one party of any given legal issue) "read" on what the law is and how it should be interpreted, and consequently (b) the likley course of action the state would take in applying the law for a given set of circustances."

Why shouldn't anyone believe that? The AG is issuing an opinion of a state law. The AG is the attorney for the state. Who else would issue an opinion of what a state law means? Of course the state would agree with his opinion, after he is the attorney representing the state. Frankly, your comment really makes no sense.
JohnO6 (Georgia)
Posts: 424
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 09/20/2009 12:03 PM

I can by picky too! Here's exactly what you said that I took exception to and you seem to now be changing your point of view about:

"This is the second thread in which you've made reference to a state's Attorney General issuing "an opinion" on a existing statute. That is not the appropriate role for an AG."

That statement led me to believe that you think the AG does not have the authority to issue an opinion on existing statutes. So, if you think that, you must also think that any opinion he does issue doesn't mean anything. Now you tell me you agree with me! Sorry, but that sounds like back-pedaling to me.

First, I probably didn't clarify specifically enough the statement about it not being an appropriate role for an AG. Of course, it's an appropriate role for the AG's to do so for his clients - who are the state and its agencies. It is not necessarily meaningful for the AG's opinion to be automatically interpreted by other (non-clients) as anything more than a lawyer's interpretation of a law and it applicability for HIS client.

As the AZ State Attorney General's website states, "The primary role of the Attorney General’s Office is to provide legal representation to the State of Arizona, its agencies and state officials acting in their official capacities. The Office is not authorized to advise or represent private citizens . .. .. "

So as to your inference that my statement led you to believe that I think the AG does not have the authoritty to issue an opinion on existing statues, that's not correct. Of course he has the authority - the same as any other attorney has such authority to do the same for their clients.

And no, I'm not back pedaling - I'm merely trying to acknowledge the idea that while an AG opinion is practically important, it is not, philosophically, the be-all and end-all legal opinion regarding the laws' interpretation. That's why courts exist - to test the legal hypotheses.

Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 09/20/2009 12:03 PM

I also don't believe you agree with me when you say: "I just didn't want anyone to infer that AG issued opinions confer anything other than (a) the state's (one party of any given legal issue) "read" on what the law is and how it should be interpreted, and consequently (b) the likley course of action the state would take in applying the law for a given set of circustances."

Why shouldn't anyone believe that? The AG is issuing an opinion of a state law. The AG is the attorney for the state. Who else would issue an opinion of what a state law means? Of course the state would agree with his opinion, after he is the attorney representing the state. Frankly, your comment really makes no sense.

People can choose to believe the AG's opinion or not. WHAT people should believe is that this is the State's attorney rendering an opinion for his/her client, the state. It is a public opinion that may or may not be correct for individual citizens. As such, there's no mandate that the individual state resident believe the AG's interpretation of what the statue actually is - only what the AG advises the state it is. As for who else should issue an opinion, that could be virtually any learned attorney representing his or her client - or no client at all if the pursuit is academic.

As to my comment making no sense - I'm sorry you feel that way.

Let me make it very simple - AG opinions will tell you the state's version of what they think a law says and how it should be applied; whether or not that actually turns out to be true or not.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:


My very brief encounter with the Florida A.G was this. I asked if a HOA had the right to enforce an item relating to tenants rights. After I told them the situation, they said, "NO, the HOA may not enforce this item because it goes against the Florida Tenants Rights laws. I asked if they could enlighten the HOA, they said "NO" unless I brought a case against the HOA to them for violating the Tenant laws. But they wanted me to go the circuit court route first.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
John,

What I interpret you to be saying is that a board member (a private citizen) shouldn't be concerned with abiding by an opinion of the AG. This is totally incorrect. If the AG renders an opinion on a state law that is used by a private citizen in the course of his work that opinion is to be abided by. When the AZ AG rendered an opinion regarding the public body open meeting law, all individuals working for a "public body" entity were apprised of the opinion and were required to follow the ruling.

Sure any attorney can also issue an opinion regarding any state law, but his opinion is not regarded the same as an opinion issued by the state's Attorney General. The opinion will hold more weight in a court of law than the opinion of a practicing attorney.

Don't bother to respond, John, because I'm not going to get into a Pxxxing match with you over this.

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