Damages, security cameras and minors having sex

Started by IanC • 29 replies • 2181 views

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IanC (Georgia)
Posts: 6

Posted:

While investigating damages at our pool house, the security cameras showed that the damages were caused by 2 people having sex that appear to be minors. I do not know who they are and currently no one else but me knows what is on this security footage.

There's a lot to consider here and need some input on what to do next.

Thanks

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Call the police and file a report.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

IanC (Georgia)
Posts: 6

Posted:

That's the easy part. Filing an incident report to just record the incident will be done today. Due to being about $400 in damages it will be classified as criminal trespass.

The messy part is if and how we pursue accountability for $$$ restitution for repairs.

How do you find out their identity and keep it private?
What do you do morally about telling the parents?
What am I legally responsible for now that i know what's up, but don't know who the kids are?

IanC (Georgia)
Posts: 6

Posted:

My intuition, gut, heart and morals all tell me that I have to find out who they are and if underage make the parents aware. If they are of age, use the police report as leverage to get $$$ restitution and if they are not of age have the parents handle it.

I guess I'm just hoping for a magical easy answer because the whole thing is uncomfortable.

I know what I need to do.
I just don't know how to find out the identity of the kids and keep the whole thing private.

Ian

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

All that matters are the damages. If 'they' were worried about keeping things 'private' do you think they'd be having sex in public!

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

The police may be able to identify them or if their faces are visible post their picture with any nudity blacked out asking for their identity, chances are someone knows who they are.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

"HOA distributes Child Porn"

How's that for a headline. If they're minors and you in any way release the photo/video (other than as Glen suggested by blurring out part of the images) your HOA will suffer huge negative consequences, probably both financially and media wise. That really will help your home values because of 400.00 in damages!

Focus on the damages. You are not the moral police nor are you these kids parents. Leave that part for others.

IanC (Georgia)
Posts: 6

Posted:

There is plenty of benign footage of them that shows their faces clearly. I'll just use that, or still images of that and ask some people that I trust to help me identify them. Then take it up directly with the parents.

The entire scenario of the 2 hours they were at the pool is very suggestive of how the damages happened, but the damage happened behind a closed door so they can say anything that they want about what happened in there.

SusanS5 (Florida)
Posts: 16

Posted:

I guess posting it on your website with the heading Do You Know These Children? is out, then.... ;)

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

Turn this entire thing over to the police. Once you get their report, then you can approach for damages - directly to the parents or thru the court system.

Do not publish faces of minors. Go to the parents only after you hve police reports. They will do the investigation and show the parents the "proof" of the allegation. If it gets that far, the judge may even award damages to the HOA.

Tread carefully, here.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

File a police report right away. Turn the video over to the police. You do not want to be in possession of that video.

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

Sadly, you have already filmed and produced child pornography. And, obviously viewed it. If you give it to anyone, even the police, you might be considered to have distributed it. Any of those "crimes" is enough to have you (and everyone who touched or saw the video) convicted for life of a sex crime.

Perhaps you should start looking for a nice box under an overpass.

TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460

Posted:

All...

NOT NECESSARILY... The OP is not 100% sure that the video is, in fact, of minors (could be short people...). At this point, the only evidentiary value of the video is to determine who committed a crime (damaged property). If the law enforcement officials believe the parties involved are children, then it's their call on how to proceed (decisions to prosecute are made by actual experts in the law).

Until then...it's just crime scene video.

I canNOT imagine that the purpose of child pornography laws is to make business owners second-guess their decisions to install security cameras. We ALL know what they can catch on the videos...

Finally, giving evidence of a CRIME to police is NOT distributing criminal items (i.e. child pornography). Just don't be surprised (if it does turn out to be kids) if you don't get the video evidence back.

TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By IanC on 09/14/2009 8:28 AM
There is plenty of benign footage of them that shows their faces clearly. I'll just use that, or still images of that and ask some people that I trust to help me identify them. Then take it up directly with the parents.

The entire scenario of the 2 hours they were at the pool is very suggestive of how the damages happened, but the damage happened behind a closed door so they can say anything that they want about what happened in there.

DO NOT DO THIS IN SECRET!!!!!!! I cannot emphasize enough how you need to give this to the experts and not to "people I trust". The police will either identify the suspects OR they will not identify the suspects. If they don't, then it's an insurance issue (to me). Because of the sensitive nature of how you discovered the crime, this may be best to just submit for insurance.

JustinH1 (Tennessee)
Posts: 11

Posted:

thats crazy... you should definitely call the cops. wow they are going to be sooo embarassed hahaa serves em right

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

IanC,
Why are you referring this to us as "I"? Bad Mojo there. Where is your Board? Are you on the Board? Ian, you must get your Board involved. Right now, you are hanging way out on the limb. I suspect there is nothing in you documents that give you single authority to do anything. Get the Board into a legally called Executive Session, it's their baby, and the Homeowners butt. The Board's concern primarily is to collect damages, and protect the association.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

SusanS5,
I doubt also if including it into some visual information, instructional pamphlet for new owners would pass muster either. Maybe a Monday night movie at pool side with free ice cream and popcorn.

"Honey, where are the kids?"

"Oh they just went to the pool for the free movies. I heard our neighbor say the show is going to be very educational."

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319

Posted:

Ian,

Go to your police department with the tape after all board members are aware. (But obviously don't sit on the tape until the next board meeting.) Let the police tell you how you should proceed. Police have more experience with this then you, they'll be more than happy to tell you how you should proceed. How about calling your insurance agent. Get his opinion. Too many people look at their insurance agents as some bad guy; that just by talking to him your rates will go up.

Two minors having sex; should the parents only find out when the girl becomes pregnant? At least now the baby would be able to see how they were conceived. Or watch it on YouTube I guess.

To all posters/readers: Depending on how small the town is in which you live I suggest all current board presidents introduce themselves to the chief of police. Ask the chief, or one of his staff, to tour your complex and give you tips for security. Build a bond with them so that in the future you have a closer relationship when things come up.

I'm curious; are there signs posted that surveillance cameras are in use? Do they need to be?

Dana

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Good advise Danna,
While on the subject, they should make contact with the Fire Department, local city council or county council, Public works departments if proper. Associations should also be looking to build or joining other near by HOA's. Little discussion on this but Associations can learn from each other, and possibly split some of the costs of road paving, etc., not to mention legal fees.

EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148

Posted:

Ian,

Get a life. It is $400 in repairs and if your deductible is higher pay the darn thing and be done with it. Why are you so concerned with who did what..voyeruism? (sp?)Increase your security system around the pool or whatever you have to do tho this may cost more than $400. Have you filed a police report? Even if you did I doubt $400 in damages would cause a huge investigation. I'm certain they have more important things to do with their time.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DanaB1 on 09/17/2009 5:49 AM
To all posters/readers: Depending on how small the town is in which you live I suggest all current board presidents introduce themselves to the chief of police. Ask the chief, or one of his staff, to tour your complex and give you tips for security. Build a bond with them so that in the future you have a closer relationship when things come up.

Wholeheartedly support this.

In our Metro area, our police department is rather large, with something like 10 or 14 districts. Don't really remember.

What I do know, though, is in what district our development exists. Our board members have met the captain of the district, as well as several of the officers within the district.

We periodically have one or several attend our meetings and share recent crime reports, tips on how to spot meth labs, etc etc etc.

Having a face-to-face relationship with your local law enforcement is crucial, in my opinion. It will make your jobs much easier, too, since many of the things that neighbors will call you with really should be under the jurisdiction of local law enforcement anyway.

EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148

Posted:

Ian,

If, as you say, the damages happened behind closed doors how can you prove anything? It appears to be a he said she said.

EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148

Posted:

Michele,

I couldn't agree more. It is much better to be pro-active rather than re-active. Spotting meth labs is one thing, however if an hoa cries wolf for every little thing they may soon be ignored. The OP here seems to have blown a $400 repair out of proportion. Just my opinion, especially since he wants to be the moral police.

TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MicheleD on 09/17/2009 2:48 PM

We periodically have one or several attend our meetings and share recent crime reports, tips on how to spot meth labs, etc etc etc.

A meth lab was just found down the street from our development.

Michele, what are some of those tips? Or maybe a new post? I don't know, but I really want to hear about that.

AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960

Posted:

I'd be concerned with "who did what"...because if there is no reaction it may continue to happen. The "kids" may think they've found the ideal place for their little rendevous (sp?) and will keep using it...and keep damaging property if the association just chooses to pay the repair bill and ignore it.

Notify the police. They may indeed tell you they're going to ignore it and for you to just pay the bill. But I'd certainly discuss it at a board meeting; put it in the minutes or put it in a newletter; or whatever way you need to, to let the members know you're aware of the damage and how it was caused.

EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148

Posted:

I have no idea how far away the pool is from owners but what about asking owners to be on the lookout or even sitting poolside when this happened? My condo unit overlooked the pool and I would have no problem checking it out and calling the police if it were necessasy. Ask all owners to keep an eye on the pool.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TracieS on 09/17/2009 3:10 PM

Posted By MicheleD on 09/17/2009 2:48 PM

We periodically have one or several attend our meetings and share recent crime reports, tips on how to spot meth labs, etc etc etc.

A meth lab was just found down the street from our development.

Michele, what are some of those tips? Or maybe a new post? I don't know, but I really want to hear about that.

Keep in mind there is no one key indicator that will conclusively identify a meth lab. But a combination several indicators could be enough to trigger a call to report the property as possibly containing a meth lab.

Unusual Smells
These smells may indicate an active meth lab.

1. Cat urine
2. Ether
3. Ammonia
4. Acetone
5. Strong chemical or fuel smell

Unusual Sights
If you suspect a meth lab, you may see these items.

1. Blacked-out windows or completely blocked off windows and doors.
2. People coming and going at all hours.
3. Tremendous amounts of trash: Beakers, duct tape, neon-stained coffee filters.
4. Unusually high amount of clear glass containers or an unusually high number of 2-liter soda bottles.
5. A meth-maker will use hundreds of dollars cold tablets that contain ephedrine or pseudophedrine—Sudafed for instance—per batch. A large number of cold medicine packets is almost a dead giveaway.
6. Coleman fuel and Heet containers strewn about.
7. Lots of external "security" cameras.
8. An unusual amount of discarded lithium batteries and/or antifreeze containers.

Damage to Property

1. Wall discoloration. Brown iodine stains mostly.
2. Corroded gas canisters.
3. Ring of dying trees and plants around structure.

Whatever you do, do not sift through or look through their trash! The chemicals used to make meth are extremely toxic and can cause severe illness or death.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DanaB1 on 09/17/2009 5:49 AM

To all posters/readers: Depending on how small the town is in which you live I suggest all current board presidents introduce themselves to the chief of police. Ask the chief, or one of his staff, to tour your complex and give you tips for security. Build a bond with them so that in the future you have a closer relationship when things come up.
Dana

If you have an annual HOA picnic or cook out invite your local police and fire units to attend, nothing gets the attention of public safety personnel like free food. If you have a lot of kids in the neighborhood the FD will often bring a fire engine or ambulance and let the kids look through them. They often have very informative programs which they will put on simply by asking them to such as the vial of life, take vitals or dress in turnout gear for the kids. I know we often visited local schools especially the lower grades to show the kids what someone in turnout gear looked and sounded like (think Darth Vader) because if God forbid they need to rescue a child you don't want the child hiding thinking a monster is after them.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Good ideas Glen,
This site could use more posts like this.

JackG2 (Virginia)
Posts: 10

Posted:

Please Brian, don't be foolish.

File the police report and turn the video over to the police.

Explain the damages done to the property, and let the police handle the entire thing.

There's no need to talk to parents yourself. This is a criminal act that only the police should handle.

They have all the evidence they need.

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