Increasing Fines

Started by ThomasC11 • 15 replies • 1868 views

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ThomasC11 (California)
Posts: 210

Posted:

Our fines for violations have never been increased. They are set at $25 and at that price, it is cheaper to store junk on your balcony than rent a storage unit down the street. We have gone several years with minimal enforcement and I perceive the majority of homeowners to be in violation of the Rules.

Our Bylaws require 75% yes vote for any changes, I forsee a problem reaching that amount on a fine increase. Most owners will not vote in favor of making themselves pay more money.

If the vote fails to reach 75%, are there options beyond this? Someone mentioned taking it before a judge, it's only reasonable that $25 fine is not perceived to be effective in 2010.

thanks

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

It would greatly depend on the actual language in your governing documents concerning fines.

Our documents do not establish a specific amount for a fine, but do give the board the ability to establish the fine schedule.

In a case like that, then, we would not require a 75% vote to increase the fines. We could (and probably would) bring it up in a board meeting and amend the fine schedule by way of a resolution. Only the board would be voting on it in that case.

But it seems to me that the larger issue may be the inconsistent enforcement of the covenants.

Even with weak fines, the board needs to be diligent in enforcing against violations in a consistent and steadfast manner.

ThomasC11 (California)
Posts: 210

Posted:

Wording: "Board may impose a monetary fine, not exceeding $25.00 for any violation".

Language is pretty clear, need a backup plan.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

Is that in your CC&Rs or in your Rules and Regulations?

ThomasC11 (California)
Posts: 210

Posted:

CCR's

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Thomas wow I hate to see such a poorly worded covenant, $25.00 max fine per violation and if the violation is not cured does that mean you can only fine them once? Is that the entire passage or is that just a piece of it? It might be easier for the BOD to seek to remove this section entirely instead of increasing the fine. Then after that is accomplished you could use Davis-Stirling to establish reasonable fines.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148

Posted:

ThomasC,

Have you checked out your city's code enforcements. Do the things on the balcony violate any of their laws, create a fire hazzard ,etc.?

We had an owner of one of our townhomes who let her exterior get it terrible repair. After over two years of violation notices, mediation and legal steps (costing aprox $6,000) and the association paying for the repairs we learned that the City would have fined her $100 PER DAY until she made improvements. We now have a final judgment against her for over $20,000 but it's too bad we didn't contact the City first. We are now in the lenghty, costly foreclosure process.

ThomasC11 (California)
Posts: 210

Posted:

That is pretty much the only language in CCRs, it is listed as a duty of Board. Also says, if homeowner does not pay in 30 days, Association can place lien on house.

I will look into the City Code as an option, thank you.

Any other ideas?

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Is this the wording in the original document or an amendment?

Also, I don't agree most people will not vote to increase fines. Getting that done is a board problem and requires the board to communicate and educate the owners and convince them it is necessary. Put it out as a straw vote, get replies and then make adjustments to fit the comments received. Who has allowed this 35$ fine all these years? The owners of course.

ThomasC11 (California)
Posts: 210

Posted:

wording is from original CCRs. We have 2 or 3 homes that would currently get a violation letter/fine at this time.

that is why I say I doubt if we could meet the votes needed.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Thomas,

RE: Increasing Fines
Message: wording is from original CCRs. We have 2 or 3 homes that would currently get a violation letter/fine at this time.

that is why I say I doubt if we could meet the votes needed.
**********************************
I am not sure what you mean by the above. How you can conclude there are 2 or 3 homes that would certainly get a violation notice, therefore: you can't get votes needed.

Your 75% requirement is too high also.

How many units?
What is your motivation?
Do you have a communication problem?
Does the Board?
What does the rest of the Board think?
There are provisions to make a change in the amount of fine.
There are provisions to change your restrictions in your documents.
It might be a good time to revise your documents.
When were they last amended?

None of the above is easy or quick............but it can be necessary, and if necessary will get worse as times goes on.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Thomas,

Developers usually put things in the CCRs that would benefit them; that's why I am very surprised the amount of the fine is stated in your CCRs. However, I do believe an amendment is in order. I would not try to amend the amount of the fine, though, I would just amend the CCRs to give the board the authority to impose fines. Leave the amount of the fine out -- the value of $25 today is not what it was 20 years ago and will be even lower in another 20 years.

Whether or not the votes are there is something that won't be known until the election takes place. The BOD should pursue this until the vote passes, otherwise they will continue to have a problem with curing violations.

ThomasC11 (California)
Posts: 210

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RobertR1 on 09/13/2009 11:25 PM
Thomas,

RE: Increasing Fines
Message: wording is from original CCRs. We have 2 or 3 homes that would currently get a violation letter/fine at this time.

that is why I say I doubt if we could meet the votes needed.
**********************************
I am not sure what you mean by the above. How you can conclude there are 2 or 3 homes that would certainly get a violation notice, therefore: you can't get votes needed.

My mistake, I meant 2 out of 3 homes not 2 or 3!

How many units? 914

What is your motivation? I live on the best street in the community, beautiful views of Irvine Valley and Mt. Baldy. I don't want to move, but feel that in the end, it is my only option. The rifraf has taken over, but not going down without trying.

Do you have a communication problem? I know the people on the New Board, they are behing this effort.

Does the Board? No, best communication in years. Just fired management company and now have onsite manager, hiring maintenance staff as well. Adding community website, online work orders.

When were they last amended? CCRs and Bylaws have never been amended, Rules and Regs were amended November 2002.

None of the above is easy or quick............but it can be necessary, and if necessary will get worse as times goes on.

JackG2 (Virginia)
Posts: 10

Posted:

Thomas,

I'd have to say you should seek the advice of an attorney.

In our process we have the violations assessment set at $50 or at the discretion of the Board if the violation fits $10.00 a day, up to $900.00, if the violation isn't resolved.

I also can't believe the board has no authority to change your community's by laws rather than needing the majority of all owners. This just doesn't sound right.

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

JackG2,
It is common for the Board to enforce the covenants, By-laws included. You feel it is common for the Board to have authority to change By-laws but not Master Deed......right?

Each owner signed and agreed to accept the dictates of the documents as written. They also agreed if they wanted to change these documents they could follow the process as directed. Your documents apparently give the BOD the right to change the By-laws. What happens if the Board changes the documents and a new Board comes in and changes the documents back to the way they were. All you can say to your owners is: you better get used to it because no one controls the Board.

So, if you want to change the by-laws as an owner, you have to change the Board and then make the Board change the By-laws.

Our documents gives directions on how the owners can petition the Board through a special meeting of the owners to vote on changing any of our documents. It uses the same sort of instructions for the Board to call a Special Meeting of the owners to vote on changing the documents.

Personally, I like to believe that the Boards would want the owner input to influence the Board decisions. I believe in transparency and would not be very happy if I woke up one morning and found I could no longer keep my cat that I have had for ten years because the Board decided in secret they didn't like cats so they deleted the clause in our by-laws that states owners can keep one small pet.

But, not posting this as a argument , more an observation.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

I know there are exceptions to every rule, but it's my feeling that when the bylaws can be amended by the board w/o a vote of the members it's because the bylaws only contain administrative provisions, which is the way it should be. However, for whatever reason, some developers include restrictions, that really belong in a set of CCRs, in the bylaws. In those instances the bylaws may require a vote of the members to amend. The restrictions affect all the members of the assn so they really should have a say in whether or not they should be amended. However, the administrative procedures only affect the BOD so there is no reason to require the members to amend those provisions.

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