Update on our Rogue Board Member...

Hello All..
Here we go again! Need your excellent guidance. Read my former posts...IF you have time! I shall try not to go on & on but brevity is not my second nature!
Our association is temporarily being self managed by 4 members of our board. The 5th board member is "The Rogue." Last post.. our disaster of a meeting in late June. You all mention how difficult self management can be..especially true when you have a divided community! The intention was never to self manage forever...only to try and get our ducks in a row after our last two management companies!
The new board began in Jan on the same page, ALL voted in the spring to let current M. Co go as they were large, expensive & did not fit with our small "52 unit"community. Thanks to our rogue board member who changed her mind, we now have chaos!
Remember we are also involved in a lawsuit with the former M. Co. over unaccounted funds! (This is second law suit because former board defaulted, never producing the records.)I resigned along with another board member who was a "minions" in May of '07 (Minions are the retired, smart, previous business owners who saw through that Manager, brought things to my attention & then no one would take our fears seriously!)

Finally, the newer attorney has subpeonied the bank for our bank records from the fall of '06 -to fall of '08 .. the first we have ever seen them! It appears there are many, many serious discrepancies and we were right on. Cannot wait until we can lay this our before the 10 -12 owners who despise these minions. (By the way they have never been able to meet the rquired signatures for removal of this board! I will point out to the board they should add an amendment to the past minutes concerning their attempt at removal of the board...
I apparently have led a somewhat sheltered life for 70 years but never have I run across a group of people like this law school grad (who has failed to pass the board twice)Rogue and her adopted group. They are convinced these "minions" are evil and will not cut them a break. Talking to them is like talking to the wall! And yet it is truly "thanks to them" that this Manager was stopped! Never once has anyone on that previous board with me, shown an once of humility!
Now let me say this board is honest and hard working but not elequent or creative in the sense of standing up to these people without losing their cool. I lost it at the last meeting, standing asking them where they all were when we asked for their help with the previous manager! Now they just want to knit pick everything just to make life____ for this board! The thought of another meeting like the last one has them in shell shock! And yet they know they must have another meeting. Everything I have read says we should listen to their views...which of course is ... hire a management company! Well we have found a college graduate in finance who runs his own maintenance company. ( His father is retired but would consult with him when needed..the fairly young Dad was in charge of maintenance for an entire State University campus.) The son would like to consider management...and the board feels this might be a perfect setup. They think he will be able to handle record keeping and bill paying soon & we already have the Lockbox. But he has nothing else to bring to the table regarding knowledge of Associations and by laws etc. I don't believe the community will think this is suitable...but then I am not actually a board member so my thoughts are just that. My idea was to try and find an experience Manager that would work with us on a limited basis, use our LockBox & this maintenance man who seems honest, good, johnny on the spot. I am afraid that if we do not get someone in place before December we will be back with the huge M. Co. They want to hire them back!!!I would rather be the one to choose instead of leaving it to the next board!! ( If you go back & read you will see they did not negotiate well for us and would have cost us a $1000 assesssment this year among other difficultirs .. slow in paying our vendors immediately...nickel & domed us without solving our porblems...but they were honest! We were peons to them because we were small...no personal interest in our plight. Remember because of road repair and missing funds we are very tight financially!

I was wrong about no one following the rogue into escrowing fees...3 others have also escrowed their fees! Plus we have maybe 5 more who are behind. Liens are being placed and our first small claims date is Sept 1. The Rogue is next! We are barely hanging on financially! We were waiting to have permission on what to tell the community concerning the bank records that have been subpeonad before setting a meeting date.

Well. the Rogue has beaten us to the punch. I will enclose her email that arrived today. She has called a meeting herself... I cannot imagine this board showing up at this meeting ... it would be like walking into the Lion's Den! Enclosed is her e-mail....filled with innundo and errors!
This is from the Rogue ex-Pres!

Hi All,
Based on requests to me from the community, I have called a community meeting on September 2nd at 6:30 p.m., at the clubhouse. The purpose is to have an open forum and discuss many of the issues that have been concerns to all of us. The agenda is anything that any of you want to talk about. This meeting is about you and about the future of our complex

Some of the concerns to which I have encountered by talking to all of you are:
1. Where the board is with hiring a professional management company.
2. Financial issues and lack of providing the community with such information.
3. "Vendors" entering our security entrances with master keys without a board member present.
4. Garbage pick-up or infrequency thereof.
5. Delinquencies.
6. Liens.
7. Legal Fees.
8. Views of the majority of the community on self management and disregard by the board of those views.
9. Elections coming up and those that are considering to run for the potential three open positions.
10. Property values and the future of Lake Washington.
11. The appearance of our community.

These are just some starting points. I have informed board member Pat that I have called this meeting, and that the community is expecting the board attend. Precise minutes will also be taken and provided to all of you via mail within seven days of the meeting. If any of you have any questions please let me know. Additionally, I will be posting signs regarding the meeting within the next day.

Thank you for all the great neighbors that continue to inform, encourage, and impress me with your involvement and concerns!

Talk to you soon,

I would appreciate your thoughts regarding this meeting. I know we have allowed this to happen...our own fault! This board is well meaning.... but we are caught between a rock and a hard place. We have covered ourselves & the community insurance wise .. the transition of records has been a hassel and held us up a bit...but all in all they have done a great job...not perfect but better than any management co has done! But this group will never see it that way.

Look forward to your thoughts.... AnnW

Glen,
I resigned from a previous BOD. My husband was appointed to a position on this board to fill a vacancy and is now the President. The Rogue was the president... she completely changed her mind, after voting YES to let go latest M. Co, and saying nothing to the board, took a clipboard and called on all the owners to sign a petition against self management... Scared them all to death with her legal background! And then called a meeting, brought in her own attorney, hired an off duty sheriff and then wondered why her board did not show up! The board met shortly thereafter and voted her out as president...and somewhat reluctantly, my husband was made president.

After that.... she began her route with the clipboard again! This time trying to unseat everyone but herself, of course. My husband walked out side and asked what she was doing, nothing more...we didn't know what she was up to at that time...she smiled at him and said, "I am calling the sheriff for harassment!" Which she did! And twice more on others.
We have lived here for 25 years and nothing like this has ever happened! We have never needed a sheriff at a meeting!

As to the meetings...the last one was late June. But let me say many letters have gone out to the owners explaining the reasons we have taken on self management...plus financial info. Everyone knows...they just do not want the owners or rather these owners, running things...mainly because the chif minion has close friends on the board. This "chief minion" has been pointing out their errors for years...and they didn't want to listen even though he was right all along! In the last 10 -12 years there has been not an ounce of oversight by the previous boards.

These board members love it here and have been around for many years. They want nothing but the best for this community. The first law suit was to recover our bank statements and other records. An owner here went out on a limb with his own $ to force the past BOD to allow him to see the records which he was entitled to see. I was a appointed Treasurer and I had never seen the checkbook! The Manager did everything and made up hundreds of excuses as to why she could not supply the records etc., why there were late charges for water (nearly $1000)etc.etc. when there was plenty of money. The board didn't want to do anything & just trusted and they were taken down the riber without the proverbial paddle!!

It is a long complicated story...previous posts are long and wordy but they tell the tale!
Ann W

First of all, I do not think your choice for a potential manager is a good one.

I don't care what his dad did for a living, the boy has no real depth or breadth of HOA experience, management or otherwise.

I also know that I, for one, would be sure to bring up the escrowing of the assessments at the "town hall" and make sure everyone knows that it's not helping the community to have people purposefully (and illegally) withholding needed funds.

Then I would simply show the bank records.

Look, this woman is organized and she has a tangible goal.

Your group, however well meaning, is allowing this to happen by not being "grown ups" and accepting their board responsibility for leadership.

To say they are afraid of their own membership (which is pretty much what you are saying) means that bullies like the "rogue" will get their way every time.

Why aren't they going around the neighborhood with their own clip board, and a packet of information and talking points, and meeting with each home individually to let them know what's going on?

It's only 50 homes. If your group drafts a set of talking points, makes copies of supporting documents, and spends some face time with each resident, then it will make it much more difficult for the rogue to spread her misinformation.

Simply sending out letters or written updates isn't enough.

And the board clearly is afraid of meeting with groups of people at a time.

SusanW...
In late Spring she did the same type of thing...called a meeting...the board did not attend! And then she chastised them for not attending!
You say we have allowed her...certainly not, but how do you stop her? If you could have been present at our last meeting you would understand why we have been reluctant to have another meeting! These woman are not there for information...only to argue their points. They firmly believe that we are elected to do their bidding! And don't forget this is all about the fact they despise the "Head Minion" because he has pointed out all their mistakes all these years.
All several past boards have wanted to do is make decisions (and they weren't wise ones) and let the Manager carry them out. One example: After they defaulted on the law suit by allowing the Manager to lead them, they finally fired her...immediately hired this new large M. Co having no real idea how much was left in our checking account or reserves! Then 2 months later in December, knowing they would not run again, that President hired a landscaper to take down privacy hedges behind the building she lived in because she was afraid someone could hide in the area behind her condo. Replaced them with dwarf lilacs that will only grow 2 feet at a cost of $6,000! Her board went along with it...and it looks horrible..plus no privacy. They knew we had this road repair coming up that could run upwards of $50,000 but their attitude is assess, assess! Did anyone complain about that ...NO! Just this group of minions!

At our last official meeting, there were only about 8-10 people. Four women constantly bombarded every speaker and the board. Very difficult even for a well spoken attorney to handle but he did a fine job. He was there to update on the law suit...but he certainly got an ear full waiting for his turn to speak. Former board member did not attend that meeting...probably because our new attorney would be there.
I'm sure they will all be at this one. Our board is not afraid of them...but they are not excellent debaters...and it is most difficult to keep your cool when being accused of wrong doing knowing you have done nothing wrong! How in the world does one defeat such behaviour?

MicheleD,
Thank you for your insight! Good ideas about talking points on a one by one basis.
Last Friday the board received an email from an owner who has not paid for past two months...one of our board members had written to ask why...she had not told us she was escrowing. Her response was filled with why we were not responding to what the community wants...a manager! Her fears of owners stealing and on and on! She was begging for an explanation. Finally when no one responded, I pressed my husband to press that board member to set up a meeting with her. The email went out Monday evening asking her to meet this evening and before she answered...the Rogue's email came out yesterday calling the meeting. So we'll see what happens there.

What about the meeting? My thought is they must attend...but it will be like walking into the Lion's den. At this point the board is considering having two members attend...the treasurer, who everyone really likes I think, but she is meek and mild. And another strong board member who was the president of the board for years and ran it well...although some thought too conservativly. Because she is tough she is not liked by everyone...was appointed to fill a board position. But she'll take no ____ from anyone!

Can anyone point me to something that speaks to the board making the decision for self management....everything I have read always comes back to taking the community into consideration. If we lose two or three board members in December we will have no control and they will hire a management company. I was glad to hear you agreed concerning the maintenance man...this board is good in many ways but hiring the maintenance man is not one of them. Somehow my husband and I have to convince them that this approach will not work. I have been a Realtor for 35 years so have somewhat of an inside track on managers...not many good ones around here. I was hoping to come up with a uniqe arrangement where we hired a Manager as a consultant... Not sure how the details would work but after finally being in control of finances they hate to give that up after what we have been through. And yet with two new BOD's in December they will have no desire to handle that...will want to go back to old way's.

What in the world are we going to do. Ideally as you said, treat it like a campaign and sell it!! May be our only choice. Not sure we can pull that off but I'll pass it on to the board. Our community is mixed...wealth and those on only SS. Many past board members have the attitude that if they cannot afford the assessments, let them move! Well moving is not an option at this critical time...we have two off site owners that have been trying to sell for well over a year..one of them owe's $3000 in unpaid fees, another one in forclosure and a 4th just trying to sell.

Any miraculous ideas...pass them on, please

Ann here are a few highlights from ORC5311 that might help your BOD. (Bold by me)

5311.08 Unit owners association.
(A)(1) Every condominium property shall be administered by a unit owners association . All power and authority of the unit owners association shall be exercised by a board of directors, which the unit owners shall elect from among the unit owners or the spouses of unit owners. If a unit owner is not an individual, that unit owner may nominate for the board of directors any principal, member of a limited liability company, partner, director, officer, or employee of that unit owner.

(B) The unit owners association shall be governed by bylaws. No modification of or amendment to the bylaws is valid unless it is set forth in an amendment to the declaration, and the amendment to the declaration is filed for record. Unless otherwise provided by the declaration, the bylaws shall provide for the following:
(h) Whether or not the services of a manager or managing agent may be engaged .

5311.081 Powers and duties of board of directors.
(A) Unless otherwise provided in the declaration or bylaws, the unit owners association, through the board of directors, shall do both of the following:

(1) Adopt and amend budgets for revenues, expenditures, and reserves in an amount adequate to repair and replace major capital items in the normal course of operations without the necessity of special assessments, provided that the amount set aside annually for reserves shall not be less than ten per cent of the budget for that year unless the reserve requirement is waived annually by the unit owners exercising not less than a majority of the voting power of the unit owners association;

(2) Collect assessments for common expenses from unit owners.

(B) Unless otherwise provided in the declaration, the unit owners association, through the board of directors, may exercise all powers of the association, including the power to do the following:

(1) Hire and fire managing agents, attorneys, accountants, and other independent contractors and employees that the board determines are necessary or desirable in the management of the condominium property and the association;

And for those escrowing their assessments on the advice of the "rogue" I would remind H/O's that if it gets to the foreclosure stage:

5311.18 Lien for common expenses.
(A)(1) Unless otherwise provided by the declaration or the bylaws, the unit owners association has a lien upon the estate or interest of the owner in any unit and the appurtenant undivided interest in the common elements for the payment of any of the following expenses that are chargeable against the unit and that remain unpaid for ten days after any portion has become due and payable :

(a) The portion of the common expenses chargeable against the unit;

(b) Interest, administrative late fees, enforcement assessments, and collection costs, attorney’s fees, and paralegal fees the association incurs if authorized by the declaration, the bylaws, or the rules of the unit owners association and if chargeable against the unit.

(2) Unless otherwise provided by the declaration, the bylaws, or the rules of the unit owners association, the association shall credit payments made by a unit owner for the expenses described in divisions (A)(1)(a) and (b) of this section in the following order of priority:

(a) First, to interest owed to the association;

(b) Second, to administrative late fees owed to the association;

(c) Third, to collection costs, attorney’s fees, and paralegal fees incurred by the association;

(d) Fourth, to the principal amounts the unit owner owes to the association for the common expenses or penalty assessments chargeable against the unit.

(2) In a foreclosure action a unit owners association commences pursuant to division (B)(1) of this section or a foreclosure action the holder of a first mortgage or other lien on a unit commences, the owner of the unit, as the defendant in the action, shall be required to pay a reasonable rental for the unit during the pendency of the action. The unit owners association or the holder of the lien is entitled to the appointment of a receiver to collect the rental. Each rental payment a receiver collects during the pendency of the foreclosure action shall be applied first to the payment of the portion of the common expenses chargeable to the unit during the foreclosure action.

(6) In any foreclosure action, it is not a defense, set off, counterclaim, or crossclaim that the unit owners association has failed to provide the unit owner with any service, goods, work, or material, or failed in any other duty.

AnnW, I suggest if it is possible that the Board have a Board meeting on September 2nd at 6:30 PM at the clubhouse and invite the homeowners to attend. The notice of that meeting with the Board's agenda can sent to the members of the association anc can advise that the meeting notice previously sent by her was not approved by the Board. This is one way the Board can effectively abort the unofficial (but possibly influential) community meeting she called. This will allow the Board President to chair and control the meeting.

P.S. Based on the problems your association is having I believe an experienced PM is needed.

Roger,
You can read my reply to Glen. Your suggestion was excellent but as you'll read, I dropped the ball on that one!
You are correct about needing a PM. A complicated endeavor as 3 of the BOD's seems certain that this maintenance man can do the job...and I am certain that would be a huge mistake!

I'll be in touch when the brain and body recover!

Control...Control...Control

After some absence from you folks I have returned to see some of the same issues go round and round. My problems seem to echo the posts from AnnW. You all have the same intelligent suggestions and wonderful ideas. The problem always seems to be like the words from a Joe Walsh song "you can't argue with a sick mind."

Some people are driven to manipulate and control period, always to their advantage, the rest of us just get in the way. Ann all the reading that I've done with your posts shows me you are an intelligent and persuasive person (husband included), but when these minds tell you to get a PM, listen!

After many months of an onslaught of attacks personally at our current BOD through misinformation, half-truths and lies within my HOA we are still trying to put pieces together. We even have a group that is calling itself the BOD and holding an annual meeting without regard for who is the elected BOD. Talk about idiots!

Good Luck to you