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Covering of ONe Security Light by Resident

Started by AlexL1 • 23 replies • 1525 views

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AlexL1 (Florida)
Posts: 305
Posted:
This is a strange one. No one wants to confront the resident. In our condo complex, we have lighting throughout the condo complex and so placed to leave no place darkened. The lights we use are floods in certain area and in others, regular lighting with frosted panes so as not to give glare to anyone. Recently, one resident covers the light each night(stating that the light shines into the one room and keeps her baby awake???). The problem is that now, that area is DARK and other residents are complaining that it now poses a security issue. No one wants to confront the renter resident. Who really has the "right" here?
AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
I don't think she has the "right" to jeopardize the safety and security of every other resident in the complex because of her baby. I was wondering how she even was able to reach the lights; but I'm "guessing" they're not on poles but maybe close to the building where she can reach them? What in the world is she covering it with???

I would suggest she purchase "black-out" drapes/curtains which are available at every home decor store, if she really thinks the light is bothering her baby....and not just her. Most babies I know can sleep at all times of the day....morning, afternoon, night if they're tired.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Alex,

What do you mean by saying "No one wants to confront the renter resident"? Where is your BOD??? The light should be checked to determine whether or not it does shine into the unit. If it does then it should be adjusted accordingly. If there is nothing wrong with the placement of the light the renter needs to be told to refrain from covering the light. If he/she refuses, then the property owner needs to be contacted and told about the actions of his renter and if he/she does not stop covering the light the prop owner will be given a violation notice and a fine. Only the property owner should be sent violation notices and can be assessed a fine.

On a second note, if the board members are afraid to exercise their authority they shouldn't be members of the board.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Alex.

Are you serious? Get the cover off of the light asap. Give her a gift cert. for Home Depot to get a room darkening shade. Just when you think that you have heard it all, another one rears it's ugly head.

Who has the right here?, certainly she has no rights to touch any security property, especially a renter. GADS!!!
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Alex,
What does your Rental pollicy say? You are a condo.......right?

If your rental policy states, as mine does, that when the property is rented, this conveys all the rights of the owner.

I know, now it will be an owner doesn't have any right to cover a security light either. I agree with that. We have had similar problems a couple of times. Turns out, at least on one occassion, that a different kind of flood/spot light solved the problem. If the light problem can't be solved and there is no specifics in your rental program, then the owner should be involved, just as he should have been from the first. IMO because he assigns all rights to the renter or anyone else occupying his unit in his absence except voting, and our documents say this, this does not mean his is not responsible for everything his renter does, he is responsible to the association, for damages or actions on common property that the renter does.
DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798
Posted:
Putting aside that the person didn't follow the right approach to address the problem. The renter wouldn't likely be covering the light if some of it wasn't shining into the room. Since it is a security light, surely the BOD would want the light to perform the function it was intended to do and I think you'd agree that doesn't involve lighting her room to 'secure' it!! Someone should check the light to see it has been properly installed, that is, lighting the area to be protected NOT her room. Neither side wants a light doing what it is not intended to do. Unless you think the person is obstructing the light in order to allow crime in that area, common sense dictates that they would not be taking the time to cover it unless it was bothering them. Our Town doesn't allow you to direct lighting at a home, a street to interfere with traffic and that light levels reflecting into those areas can't exceed a certain amount.
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
Would you rather she call Code Enforcement (it's covered in my muni by Code Enforcement), so the Association can perhaps receive a fine? Do as others have suggested, and see where it's shining at night.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Tracie,

What would she complain to code enforcement about?
AnnaD2 (Florida)
Posts: 960
Posted:
I hope Alex responds back to this. Everyone here has posted good "views" about this.

Last night I made note of the lights in MY complex. I can clearly see our pool light in my darkened bedroom on the back of the property. Is it pointed at my window? No. From my front bedroom I can "see" the parking lot lights AND my next door neighbor's porch light. But is it "aimed" at my window? No, again.

Hence....I have an option of hanging "light-blocking" window treatments in my home.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:


Just as a side note. Babies sleep in full sunlight so the light is probably not bothering the baby but bugs the Mom.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaS on 08/23/2009 4:05 PM

Just as a side note. Babies sleep in full sunlight so the light is probably not bothering the baby but bugs the Mom.

Excellent point Donna.

Don't know why I didn't pick up on that.

We have a street light (not a security light) at the end of our driveway.

It's rather large and has a pretty decent output.

The master bedroom is in the rear of the house, so we don't notice it, but the two bedrooms in the front of the house are almost eye-level with the light, and it is quite "bright" in there at night.

What sort of fools would we be to "cover" the street light?

As many have said, room darkening shades are awesome and this is what the "resourceful" renter mom should install.

And for the record, it's equally "foolish" for the board or the HOA to be afraid to handle this.

Good grief. Send a notice to the owners and get it handled. The "covering" is to be removed immediately, or, if the HOA removes it, the owner should be warned that fines will accrue if the covering returns.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Great Michelle,,

Can ou believe the brazenish of some people? It just blows my mind that the Board even stopped long enough to debate this. I would have my ladder and a long pole up there before this Mom would have closed her door from her escapade.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
I know this is hard to imagine for many of the posters here and don't find fault with not allowing anyone to screw with Common Property and appreciate the prompt response and interest from owners and Board members.

It is now the later part of August, we are a 65 unit condo, right now I expect we might have at the very most ten units occupied and aside from labor day and Thanksgiving up to the first of next year and beyond we won't have but five or six people in residence. So this means, all things equal, you can pretty much do what you want as there is no routine or otherwise patrol or function to just walk the complex. Certainly our Board members when they are here have not in the past showed much interest in police duty, in fact some flatly don't consider it a responsibility. We do now have a resident Board member, the President, and he is under the gun constantly.
The question is, do other Boards consider this type of activity (speaking of the light issue) to be a individual Board members duty? It this all discussed and some agreement made between Board Members or what? I expect this light issue took place in a condo that had some kind of management (manager or P/M).
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Robert, I think you're right in that it sounds like a condo.

But I would still consider it a board member's responsibility to protect the common elements, whether they have a "policing for violations" or "no policing for violations" policy.

Our HOA has a "no policing for violations" policy.

However, that doesn't mean that when a board member notices damage to the common elements, or potential damage to the common elements, that he or she sits back and waits for an "official" complaint from a resident who has "noticed" the same thing.

Case in point: there are two ways to enter our subdivision, one is through the signature entrance, the other is out the "back" way through an older subdivision.

I generally only enter and leave through the "back" way. Most other board members enter and leave through the signature entrance.

One day on leaving the subdivision, I noticed that someone had stolen our street signs.

Should I wait for a resident to notice it or go ahead and take action to replace them?

One of the other board members noticed that the concrete balls on the top of our entrance wall had been removed. Someone had tried to steal them.

Should the board member wait until a resident complains?

One day while walking one of our drainage ditches with drainage issues (with some reps from our sewer district) I noticed that one of the residents had placed some concrete furniture and planted a tree on our common area on the opposite side of the ditch. Aside from the fact that the area is "protected wetlands," and NOTHING is allowed to be placed on it, it is also common area and the resident was clearly encroaching.

Should I wait until I receive a notification from a resident?

The point I'm trying to make, I guess, is that even when a development or association has a "non-policing" policy, board members are also residents and association members. So if a board member "notices" a violation, or damage to the common area, or whatever, that board member is (or should be) expected to respond just as if he or she were a resident, with a responsibility to report (and/or handle).

Sorry for being so long-winded.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
MicheleD,
What is a Policing Policy or a No Policing Policy.

What you describe doesn't sound like a condo.

Where does the Management come into the picture?

If we look at condos with their more restrictive space and more dependence on consideration of your neighbors due to close proximity, how does the association manage Policing and security on a day to day bases? I expect it is, for the most part, something that evolves and certainly has a lot to do with whether you live there full time or a absentee owner. Even full time residents have elected to turn a blind eye on just about anything, whereas others are more proactive. Our documents place a responsibility on each owner to protect the association.......that's a fact at our place. Very few read this, less comply, and many refuse. There is no "Policy" although it has been discussed to dust.

Who has a Policing Policy in their condo?

How does it work?

Does it work?

Where does the management (CM, PM, or single manager) fit it?

Is the Board considered or directed different if there is a Policy.

Could some one post a Policing Policy and is it a part of your Legal CC&R's?

I don't recall this site addressing the problem directly with a Policy recommendation. It is always, "this is how we do it." I might add, "with varying degrees of success."

TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 08/23/2009 2:49 PM
Tracie,

What would she complain to code enforcement about?

Mary,

Here, "light pollution" of these varieties are covered by Code Enforcement.
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Robert,

Sometimes I truly scratch my head and wonder at your posts.

I do not live in a condo. Nor does our association have a "management company." For the life of me I don't know why it would matter in regards to policies for enforcement.

I think it's fairly self-evident what "policing" and "non-policing" policies for enforcement are.

In one, the board and/or management takes a formal pro-active role in regularly walking the development inspecting for violations (a "policing" policy).

In the other the board and/or management takes a formal re-active role in enforcement by responding to every and any allegation of potential violation but does not go out and inspect all properties (a "non-policing" policy).

Regardless of which formal policy is in place, all association members and all board members can report any alleged violations either may notice.

In regards to this thread, I'm not sure why it even matters, except that whatever policy is used in this development (and it appears to be a condo), the board should move to protect the common elements (the security light) and take action to immediately remove the covering and convey to the owner that it is not to be returned, or to contact the owner and compel the owner to remove it and ensure that it is not replaced.

Perhaps your ponderings on which policy is preferred or in use by others would be best served in its own thread?
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Michele,
Well I can't say I have to scratch my head about your posts, seems pretty clear to me.

The reference to a condo was the subject of the original poster.

My question was simple, you make it complicated.

I asked if anyone; and even broaden the question to include HOA because of your post, had a written Policy about Policing of the association.

I didn't ask you if anything mattered to you, so it hardly concerns me what you think about the relevance of my post. As they say, if I want your opinion I'll ask for it.

I didn't ask you to define what you think policing or non policing is. See request for written policy. If you don't have one, fine with me.

Want to bet if five people post a Policing Policy, three will be different?
Below is clipped from yours:

Regardless of which formal policy is in place, all association members and all board members can report any alleged violations either may notice.
*****************************

So does this mean you have two formal policy in place? Are they written?

If it helps, my intent is to see if their are formal written policies Incorporated into the CC&R's. We don't have a written policy and every time the Board or President changes there are different approaches to "Policing".

In case you need a reference to establish what "Policing" I and referring to is the one by Webster that explains: To make clean and put in order.

I think your last paragraph is the reason for your discontent.

I happen to agree with you completely and even extend this responsibility you speak of and add the individual owners.

Michele, you are chasing a devil that don't exist.

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
Aw, Robert, I wasn't trying to be obtuse.

Sometimes, regrettably, it just comes natural to me! (at least that's what my husband says.)

I will refrain from discussing the "policy" thing further in this thread and wait until you open a separate one.

Hugs?
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Michele,
And I sincerely apologize if my remarks seemed offensive. I also have a tendency to write words that can sound curt or challenging. So say my Master in Fine Arts Daughter in-law. When she gets her PhD I figure she will be my convert.........not.

A Spanish Backbender to you. That's a hug......sort of.
AlexL1 (Florida)
Posts: 305
Posted:
Very interesting comments... yes, even those of Robert's and Michele's..... To my knowledge, the situation has been resolved.. the owner was notified that it is a liability issue.. the light(on the ground with frosted small glass panes) was not a light glaring into one's window and that it (the towel used to tie around it) is to be removed or that he, the owner will be fined monthly....
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Alex,

If that doesn't remedy the problem, then I suggest someone on the Board take the towel down. Sometimes it is not worth the hassle to take a stand when a much simplier solution works better. Just take it down.
EllenS1 (Florida)
Posts: 1,148
Posted:
Donna,

I agree. We had a neighbor who was contacted numerous times about leaving his garbage can outside after pick up which he ignored. His can went missing and he asked myself and a neighbor if we knew who took his garbage can. We didn't but it solved the problem.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Ellen,

Exactly!1 Take action sometimes (but stealing the can might be a misdemeanor)

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