💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

RickW (Illinois)
Posts: 169
Posted:
It's budget time for us and our property manager ran the initial numbers. The board has yet to see the first cut of the budget and I know this post is premature because of this. However, I already know this is a topic of importance in this day and time.

If we continue with our services in the same manner as previous years and we agree to contribute to our capital reserves as our reserve study suggests we will need to raise our assessments 16%. Anything above 15% means a majority of owners would need to agree. I can't afford a 16% increase and I view myself as more fortunate than other owners. I wouldn't even begin to entertain the thought of proposing such a huge increase in today's economy.

Our basic services are not extravagant. We have no swimming pool or clubhouse. We are a smaller complex of 56 townhomes. We provide landscape maintenance, snow removal, retention pnd maintenance, and general repairs to common elements. Our complex is 9-10 years old. Oh...there of course is the 4 times a year wild extravagant trips for the board members to carry on, eat, drink amd be merry (joking).

Have other associations found them in this spot and how have you come to terms with it? I'm hoping we can find a few ways to decrease the operating expense, but I also know the contributions to our capital reserves is big. I wonder, can we contribute less to the capital reserves with the comfort level necessary to know this fund can be re-built when the economy is better?

Of course, the answer lies on when we need the money for capital funding. But, there is always the option of postponing improvements, repairs, etc.

Its not an easy time to be involved in budget manners of homeowner associations. I'd like your thoughts on this and how you see yourselves handling this issue.

Rick
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
How current is the reserve study? If it is over a couple of years old you might be paying too much into it but unless a new study says you are I would cut anywhere else but here. While it's easy to look at reserves as the place to cut and make up later; what makes you think that there won't be an excuse to cut them next year and the year after that? Eventually that money will be needed and it had better be there or you all will be facing a massive special assessment. In Ohio and other states reserve contributions and SA are regulated by the law so I would look to your states law if anyfirst. I would be less worried on how this will impact yourself and assuming things about your neighbor's situation than performing your fiduciary duty to all of your neighbors.

Whatever your BOD ends up doing, reducing services, raising assessments or a combination of the two; I can't urge you enough to call a special meeting and explain it to the whole community. Let them know exactly why the Board is doing what they are doing so that when they see a decrease in services or the increase in assessments they know exactly why it is happening and that the BOD has done what they can to hold the line.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Rick,

How much of that 16% accounts for an increase to the reserve account? At what % is your reserve fund funded at this point?
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
Well, my association isn't a good example. We just voted to pretty much deplete our checking/operating account to make massive property improvements to our asociation. I'm really REALLY proud of our ownership!

Couldn't you do both? What about lowering your reserve contributions, just for a short period of time, and adjusting your operating expenses.

Ex - snow removal. While I'm in Colorado, I'm originally from southern Michigan...I know snow. Could you adjust your snow removal contract to only remove when the snowfall is over 3" instead of 2"? Have your owners be responsible for shoveling their own sidewalks? Could you forego one spring fertilzer of your grassy areas? Not replace mulch this year? Without knowing your community, it's hard to give good examples...like if you're in an adult community, I would NOT recommend that they shovel their own snow... Do you pay your bills in advance? I pay landscape at the beginning of the season to secure a 10% discount...

I agree, though, with calling a special meeting. I'll bet some of your owners will have some great money saving ideas, and maybe a few would step up to help save money by pulling weeds or picking up garbage on the property.
RickW (Illinois)
Posts: 169
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 08/20/2009 10:30 PM
How current is the reserve study? If it is over a couple of years old you might be paying too much into it but unless a new study says you are I would cut anywhere else but here. While it's easy to look at reserves as the place to cut and make up later; what makes you think that there won't be an excuse to cut them next year and the year after that? Eventually that money will be needed and it had better be there or you all will be facing a massive special assessment. In Ohio and other states reserve contributions and SA are regulated by the law so I would look to your states law if anyfirst. I would be less worried on how this will impact yourself and assuming things about your neighbor's situation than performing your fiduciary duty to all of your neighbors.

Whatever your BOD ends up doing, reducing services, raising assessments or a combination of the two; I can't urge you enough to call a special meeting and explain it to the whole community. Let them know exactly why the Board is doing what they are doing so that when they see a decrease in services or the increase in assessments they know exactly why it is happening and that the BOD has done what they can to hold the line.

Glenn,

Our reserve study was done in 2007. We had planned on having it updated in 2010. Our complex was built in 2000-2001 so we are relativlely new and just beginning to experience capital expenditure. I attended a seminar this past week on budgeting, reserve studies, and loans for capital reserve projects. The reserve study spokesman recommended having your reserve study update every 2-3 years. The president of our management company said he recommends 5 years. I originally thought we should update our study in 2010 since it will begin to provde an accurate record of how our complex is aging. However, given the budget crunch I can see putting this update off for one more year. Funding wise, we are basically where the reserve study says we should be at this age of our complex. I am concerned with cutting contributions in fear it will hurt us in the long term as you stated.

I'll definetely look at operating expenses to cut first. However, we are already not high on the operating expenditures in my mind.

I don't have an issue with calling a special meeting. I'd be more than happy to explain why our assessments need to be raised 16% this year. However, we typically have 2 onwers present at any meeting. What happens if we call a meeting to approve this high increase and do not get a quorum?

As a second after thought, I would not want our assessments raise above the average for comparable propoerties in our area. Anyone know how I can research this?
RickW (Illinois)
Posts: 169
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 08/21/2009 6:57 AM
Rick,

How much of that 16% accounts for an increase to the reserve account? At what % is your reserve fund funded at this point?

Mary,

I've not seen the proposed budget, but this is a fantastic thing to look at. I'll let you know the percentages when available. As of now, our reserve is funded where the reserve study says it should be, which is good!
RickW (Illinois)
Posts: 169
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TracieS on 08/21/2009 7:01 AM
Well, my association isn't a good example. We just voted to pretty much deplete our checking/operating account to make massive property improvements to our asociation. I'm really REALLY proud of our ownership!

Couldn't you do both? What about lowering your reserve contributions, just for a short period of time, and adjusting your operating expenses.

Ex - snow removal. While I'm in Colorado, I'm originally from southern Michigan...I know snow. Could you adjust your snow removal contract to only remove when the snowfall is over 3" instead of 2"? Have your owners be responsible for shoveling their own sidewalks? Could you forego one spring fertilzer of your grassy areas? Not replace mulch this year? Without knowing your community, it's hard to give good examples...like if you're in an adult community, I would NOT recommend that they shovel their own snow... Do you pay your bills in advance? I pay landscape at the beginning of the season to secure a 10% discount...

I agree, though, with calling a special meeting. I'll bet some of your owners will have some great money saving ideas, and maybe a few would step up to help save money by pulling weeds or picking up garbage on the property.

Tracie,
This is what I was looking for, ideas to trim operating expenses. We have snow removal for 2" or more, maybe we can save to up the amount. We already have a special agreement with our village to salt the streets when we request it. This has turned out much less expansive than going to the snow removal company for salting.

Another thought would be to have landscape maintenance every other week instead of every week.

Of course we have to assume the company invoilved would be willing to provide service as such.
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RickW on 08/21/2009 7:17
Tracie,
This is what I was looking for, ideas to trim operating expenses. We have snow removal for 2" or more, maybe we can save to up the amount. We already have a special agreement with our village to salt the streets when we request it. This has turned out much less expansive than going to the snow removal company for salting.

Another thought would be to have landscape maintenance every other week instead of every week.

Of course we have to assume the company invoilved would be willing to provide service as such.

Rick,

Well, since you will be signing new contracts for both (you do sign contracts only for that season, don't you?), then you send out the RFP to companies with your requests. Only those companies interested in bidding need respond. 2" or more snow removal is pretty much standard, but I'll bet you're not the only association looking to trim the proverbial "fat" from the budget.

If you're looking for specifics, why don't you give a bit of information about some of the things that make up your budget line items.

My situation, I can't trim much more "fat" out of the budget. Our lawncare is usually "as needed" (Colorado, drought conditions), but this year, we've had so much rainfall, that our grass is growing like crazy. Weeds are sprouting where they never have before. Trimwork on our buildings needs repairs/repaint this year, when we thought we could get another year out of it.

So, if you trim the budget, just remember that you could just be speeding up the repair cycle and Mother Nature will have her say. Trim some fat, but try not to go for more than I'd say 10%-15% of your budget. If you're like me, your budget can spare about that much without cutting into necessary items.

Oh, another idea...could you try emailing documents to interested homeowners instead of mailing? That saves on copying/postage...
TracieS (Colorado)
Posts: 460
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RickW on 08/21/2009 7:06 PM Glenn,

I don't have an issue with calling a special meeting. I'd be more than happy to explain why our assessments need to be raised 16% this year. However, we typically have 2 onwers present at any meeting. What happens if we call a meeting to approve this high increase and do not get a quorum?

As a second after thought, I would not want our assessments raise above the average for comparable propoerties in our area. Anyone know how I can research this?

1. Check your documents about raising annual assessment. Mine have a provision that allow for a REDUCED QUORUM at the SECOND meeting called for the purpose of discussing/voting an annual assessment increase. Ex. I have 19 units, so my typical quorum as defined by my documents is 75% for an assessment incrase. This gives me a quorum of 14.25 (or 15). If there's no quorum for the first meeting, we can notice for a second meeting, and that quorum requirement would be only 7.125 (or 8). Disinterest on the part of apathetic property owners does NOT help them in this situation (according to my documents).

2. Research can be done through your local realtors association. They keep numbers about averages of everything by every neighborhood imaginable. You could also check your chamber of commerce/visitor & convention bureau/etc. Most agencies in your city charged with bringing new business will have this info. You could also just search online (if you know other community association names) to see if they have websites.
RickW (Illinois)
Posts: 169
Posted:
Tracie,

Thanks for all the info. In the past we have been signing 2 year agreements for landscape maintenance and snow removal. We've found that we get better pricing using this mehod. Our present contract is about to expire, so we do have the chance to get competitive bids and to look into cost savings. Typically we have used the same company for landscape and snow removal. In the past we've had issues when we use different companies with having grass replaced because of snow removal damage.

I'm going through last years budget, line by line, to look at where we mostly spend our money and thoughts on ways to save. I don't want to short our capital reserve, however, we do have just above the recommended amount in the account.

I also can look into the annual meeting quorum in case we do need to raise the assessment the 16%. However, I'm not in favor of such a large increase in this economy. I feel like its a slap in the face to all homeowners. I'll only proceed with it if I can justify that we have made any and all cuts to the budget that we can without being detrimental to the complex.

I'm still searching for assessments of comparable associations in our area. I've checked for websites for different associations, most don't have them. I've checked realtor.com, but they don't give information on assessments. I've looked at a few local realtor websites and after having given them my email, I find out they also do not provide this info.

Rick
GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022
Posted:
RickW - I would not consider raising maintenance to cover the mandatory capital reserves a slap in the face. It is however a dose of reality. If you do reduce reserve contributions for a period, the responsible thing is to keep track of the necessary amount not transferred so it can be replenished when your association regains fiscal responsibility.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
This has been an issue since I joined my HOA board in 2003 - and our delinquency problem don't help matters.

I believe in funding reserves as much as possible, partly because we're an old community (over 30 years) and have the clubhouse and swimming pool, as well as sidewalks, two streets, parking lots and other stuff. We've also had some major repairs over the last three years and I see a few more down the road (e.g. roof gutters will likely need some work next year because we've had to nail several back in).

The key is communication - tell folks in plain english exactly where the Association stands and why hard decisions have to be made on spending. In our case, we have:

Instructed the snow vendor to remove the stuff after three or more inches has fallen (up from two, and three inches is A LOT of snow)
Instructed the lawn services vendor to cut the grass is cut every 10 days beginning in July instead of every week
Postponed most capital improvements were postponed unless absolutely necessary for safety
Cancelled this year's swimming pool season (we did use some of the savings to make long delayed sidewalk repairs)

Even with all of this, we're still underfunded in our reserves and I will be pushing for a reserves update next year (the last study was in 2005). We told homeowners the top priorities are to control costs, increase reserves and reduce delinquencies, and while I know a few people weren't happy with the pool decision, we haven't had a mass protest.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
RickW (Illinois)
Posts: 169
Posted:
Wow, not opening up the pool! I'm surprised that most people didn't get upset with this. I can imagine this move saved you quite a few dollars. Congrats on the board taking such a step.

I found a local realtor who is also a HOA member. He has provided me with a list of associations in our area and their assessments and what the assessment covers. It's extremely helpful! I plan on using this not necessarily as a tool, but maybe a guideline as we budget for next year. We'll increase our assessments, thats a given, but I want to be able to juggle the fine line betweenour budget and property values. Any complex with assessments that are extremely high compared to others would be looked at twice by potential buyers.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I'm also looking for someone who can give me fee information on HOAs in our area - this way, homeowners can do their own comparison. How'd you get the realtor to cough up that info?

As for our pool closing, less than 10% of the community used it anyway, and that could be why we didn't hear much noise. They also got detailed information on the costs and had a chance to tell the board what they preferred before a vote was taken, so if they said nothing and still got mad, well....

When I hear people say ABC's HOA fees are "too high," I always wonder "compared to what?" They're almost always talking about the fee's impact on their budgets - and yes, the fee puts a dent in my household as well. However, I've always felt that the fee should reflect the community's needs and you can't always compare your costs to another community. Instead, I ask people "does DEF HOA provide the same type of services? Are they the same size and age? Do they have a reserve fund? Do they have delinquencies, and if so how is that impacting the budget?" If that community gets things done for a smaller fee, I want to talk to their board to find out how. This doesn't mean one should pay through the nose, but you do get what you pay for.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
BonnieE (Illinois)
Posts: 338
Posted:
Hi Rick,

I live in a 110 unit HOA comprised of townhouse-building-style condos in Kane County, IL. We are 14+ years old.

Early on our assessments were more or less flat from year to year as we were new construction and did not budget for a lot of maintenance (year to year the assessments varied by a couple of percent - up and down). We also under-funded our reserves (less than recommended in our Reserve Study). Lots of mistakes.
More significant increases in assessments began when we needed to do periodic maintenance more regularly (painting wood trim, replacing rotted wood trim, asphalt sealing, concrete repairs, siding repairs, roof repairs, landscaping replacements, etc.).

Then with an updated Reserve Study (the 2nd study), we began doing catch-up on our Reserve funding over a 3 year period. This resulted in maximum assessment increases per our governing docs without needing to obtain HO approval (just under 15% increases per year for those 3 years).

Along came next Reserve Study, #3, (inadequate in that was missing some components) and with a new BOD, reserves back to being underfunded (IMO) and the BOD also began limiting assessment increases. We have also had increases in delinquencies and in regular maintenance costs (roofs, driveways, wood, siding, etc. repairs) over the past several years, yet our assessments have been kept down to only several percent increase per year.

We are now at the point of needing roofs within ~2 or 3 years and will not have enough reserve funds (under the current funding plan). Unofficially, the BOD has indicated that a special assessment will be needed. I am waiting to see our proposed 2010 budget. I believe they are considering other options than a special assessment.

Lessons learned:
• Include funding pots for regular maintenance in your operating budget every year, even if you are not going to use it. For example, if you need to paint wood trim every 3 years, place 1/3rd the cost into that pot every year.

• Increase assessments to keep up with inflation.

• Get a Reserve Study by a reputable firm and go over it carefully to ensure it includes all components. Every common element component (and limited common element depending on how your gov docs determine responsibility) needs to be covered either in your annual operating budget, or in your reserve study/budget. Also, check that the firm is using the correct numbers and check their assumptions.

• Plan for delinquencies with appropriate funding pots (contingency operating reserve and legal) in your operating budget.

• Trim the fat from the budget. Sign up for 2 or 3 year contracts that specify (i.e., limit) annual increases, and, provide for a renewal bonus. Do you cover limited common elements? If so, check your gov docs to identify where you can trim the fat by requiring HOs to be responsible for the maintenance and develop a clarifying responsibility chart/policy. We identified a HO responsibility for: chimney caps, patios, decks, privacy fences, lights, front stoops as these are exclusive use limited common elements; thus were able to remove these from our maintenance program and long term capital improvements/replacements.

My recommendation (in addition to trimming the fat) is to increase your assessments to the extent needed to adequately fund your reserves, but not over your 15% limit (IMO, based on the info you have provided).

As for updating your reserve study – I have heard from our PM they should be updated every 3-5 years, or when the underlying assumptions change – for ex., a major capital improvement or other significant event. BTW, is the cost of the update included in your reserve study/fund? That way the cost does not impact your operating budget (i.e., is paid for out of reserve funding pot).

Sheila makes a good point about assessments reflecting your HOA needs, and not comparing your assessment to those of others in your area. This is like comparing apples to oranges and has been discussed on HOATalk in the past.

I hope this helps. Wishing you success,
Bonnie

P.S. Do you have the emerald ash borer in your area? Do you have ash trees? If yes, how is your HOA planning for this?
RickW (Illinois)
Posts: 169
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 08/25/2009 9:33 AM
I'm also looking for someone who can give me fee information on HOAs in our area - this way, homeowners can do their own comparison. How'd you get the realtor to cough up that info?

As for our pool closing, less than 10% of the community used it anyway, and that could be why we didn't hear much noise. They also got detailed information on the costs and had a chance to tell the board what they preferred before a vote was taken, so if they said nothing and still got mad, well....

When I hear people say ABC's HOA fees are "too high," I always wonder "compared to what?" They're almost always talking about the fee's impact on their budgets - and yes, the fee puts a dent in my household as well. However, I've always felt that the fee should reflect the community's needs and you can't always compare your costs to another community. Instead, I ask people "does DEF HOA provide the same type of services? Are they the same size and age? Do they have a reserve fund? Do they have delinquencies, and if so how is that impacting the budget?" If that community gets things done for a smaller fee, I want to talk to their board to find out how. This doesn't mean one should pay through the nose, but you do get what you pay for.


Hi Shelia,

I was able to get a comparison of local association's assessments quite by chance. When I couldn't find any on relator.com I went to the local relator that was listing a property similar to ours. I had to give out my phone number and email before I could view any listings. The realtor contacted me va email to inquire as to what type of home I was looking to purchase. I fessed up I wasn't in the market, just looking for free information. It turns out this realtor is a board membere of his own HOA, so he was just being extremely nice in providing the information he had to me.

I do have to research each association on his list to see if they are comparable to our or not, but that should be easy enough to do.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here